Course not but I think the remainers on here believe 99% of brexit voters did, tar same brush and all.I'm pretty sure you didn't believe any of these statements from both sides
Sorry you are mistaken there. There is a vast difference in the benefit entitlements of the low paid eu nationals vs the non-eu nationals. The non-eu nationals are not entitled to most benefits apart from nhs and schooling. Once we are out of the eu, the eu nurses for eg would not bother coming here and those positions will be filled by migrants from even poorer countries (who dont know the concept of state benefits). The benefit bill would be a bit lower and the british public would be getting a great deal with immigration (as they did from 1950s to 2005).
Regardless of that, if the uk is going to bring in more nurses from pakistan instead of portugal then its a bit weird to take the moral solace from the fact that we are not pinching trained professionals from the poor portugal. But maybe you were being sarcastic.
Its exactly that when you take into account the non cash costs to the govt.
Also, dont get your disdain for the city workers. They pay feckload of tax and cant be blamed for the govt not being able to spend it well.
Course not but I think the remainers on here believe 99% of brexit voters did, tar same brush and all.
Immigration was also a non issue for me but label me a thick racist all you like, I've not done bad out of life considering I haven't a single qualification, not bad for a knuckle dragging racist.
Jesus.
Should just cancel Brexit based on that one poll
Jesus.
Should just cancel Brexit based on that one poll
Certainly looks like most people don't agree with May's no deal is a good deal guff. No wonder she faltered I the election.
I agree with this man with nearly 30 years experience.Corbyn, Starmer and Hammond have all been on TV this morning, and all three confirmed their parties' policies for the UK to leave the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union.
That's from senior representatives / spokesmen of the two parties that together polled 88% of the votes in last week's GE.
So unless you reckon the result of a telephone poll of a couple of thousand people has more deomcratic weight than the votes of about 20 million electors, cancelling BREXIT is a non-starter.
Those idiots have been brought up and have led their entire professional lives swearing allegiance to the "sanctity" of democracy, how the will of the people is always right and final.Corbyn, Starmer and Hammond have all been on TV this morning, and all three confirmed their parties' policies for the UK to leave the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union.
That's from senior representatives / spokesmen of the two parties that together polled 88% of the votes in last week's GE.
So unless you reckon the result of a telephone poll of a couple of thousand people has more deomcratic weight than the votes of about 20 million electors, cancelling BREXIT is a non-starter.
Those idiots have been brought up and have led their entire professional lives swearing allegiance to the "sanctity" of democracy, how the will of the people is always right and final.
It's to the point of being brainwashed but give it another few months of swinging polls and common sense may prevail.
Corbyn, Starmer and Hammond have all been on TV this morning, and all three confirmed their parties' policies for the UK to leave the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union.
That's from senior representatives / spokesmen of the two parties that together polled 88% of the votes in last week's GE.
So unless you reckon the result of a telephone poll of a couple of thousand people has more deomcratic weight than the votes of about 20 million electors, cancelling BREXIT is a non-starter.
Corbyn, Starmer and Hammond have all been on TV this morning, and all three confirmed their parties' policies for the UK to leave the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union.
That's from senior representatives / spokesmen of the two parties that together polled 88% of the votes in last week's GE.
So unless you reckon the result of a telephone poll of a couple of thousand people has more deomcratic weight than the votes of about 20 million electors, cancelling BREXIT is a non-starter.
I've seen this a lot since the election.
Because Labour and Tory official line is pro-Brexit, Brexiteers thus assume that all voters that voted for either thus approve Brexit whereas the large majority of Tory MPs alone are pro remain.
As I've said before if I had been living in the UK who would I have voted for, no damned idea, both parties who had a chance of winning the election were not for me and what is the point of voting Libdems or Greens - they had less than no chance of winning.
Another load of nonsense.
You vote for a party or leader that shares your beliefs, whether they get anywhere or not is irrelevant.As I've said before if I had been living in the UK who would I have voted for, no damned idea
You mean in the same way that all voters who voted to leave the EU are xenophobic, ignorant, poorly educated, racist, UKIP voting OAPs....
Which is yet another load of nonsense but is so often peddled on here.
C'mon....
And your opinion of a cross-party Negotiaiting Team ? Who would you include from non-Tories ?
You vote for a party or leader that shares your beliefs, whether they get anywhere or not is irrelevant.
What if none of them do. Why is it irrelevant, if you have no means of changing anything, you have no say at all, a pointless vote.
The two main parties who are the only ones who could get elected are divided themselves and they're both claiming that they got such a high proportion of the vote but they did only because there is nothing else not that they are so wonderful.
You vote for a party or leader that shares your beliefs, whether they get anywhere or not is irrelevant.
Not sure I agree. Over the last decade we saw the Lib Dems get close to catching up and then almost disappear, UKIP become a force and the collapse. Just 7 years ago people were talking about the 2 party system being a thing of the past.
I think my main objection is also that when people don't vote for smaller parties they're basically saying that the status quo will never change, but by not voting they're making that a self fulfilling prophecy.
I don't disagree with what you said but up until I left the UK there was a third party, they didn't ever look like close to getting in but they had a say in what could happen in parliament. If you go back further from after the war until the 70s it was then again just a two party choice but then Tories and Labour were so far apart that there was a clear distinction in their policies. When the two main parties start resembling each other and half of each party start supporting the most important decision the country will make in many many years what choice do you have.
The Libdems self-destructed with the alliance with the Tories, UKIP was only about Brexit and the Greens will never ever get elected.
To claim 88% of the population support Brexit because Tory and Labour got that percentage of votes is a complete fabrication, the list you gave is at least partly true.
To have a cross-party negotiating team, yes, provided there was an equal representation of views, this is supposed to be for the benefit of the UK not for the benefit who those who crave being in power
That's a cop-out....
That's simply a cop-out answer....I didn't say 88% support BREXIT. I said 88% voted for the two parties who have said that they will go ahead with BREXIT.
And again, you insult those that voted to Leave....I could do the same and say a huge majority of the 48% who voted Remain were either (a) more concerned about themselves than anything or anyone else or (b) too stupid to realise that Cameron and Osborne and the others were telling absolute bollocks and lies and (c) just don't seem to understand that the vote was a simple 'In' or 'Out' vote and the majority voted 'Out' so they suddenly get all nasty and insulting to anyone who disagrees with their own personal view of the world.
But I won't.....
It's just that those who voted Leave just don't make it a personal thing
I don't disagree, but the future of the Lib Dems for instance is far from clear. A charasmatic new leader with little or no ties to the coalition period, and you could see a big resurgence. Even the Greens could certainly grow beyond their 1 MP given the growing effects of climate change and an increasingly environmentally aware youth who often lack the old political tribal ties.
I just look at the situation that we have now, where the parties are scrapping about looking for a partner with a few seats they can use for a majority, and think that if people did vote their consciences then a Green party with a dozen seats say, or the Lib Dems with 50 odd even could well decide the direction of the country in a future election.
I'm not talking about just you, I've seen plenty of people saying exactly what I said on TV and in articles - alright if you want to go on what you said, say half of the Labour Party are pro-Brexit and half the Tory party are pro-Brexit that makes 44%.
So all Brexit voters weren't voting for personal reasons, come off it. As for believing lies as I said numerous times in the past, use one's brain, think of the consequences, that applies to remainers and leavers. As for In or Out - In meant as you were, Out means.... what does Out mean, ask a cross-section of Brexit voters and see how many different answers you get.
You have led a very sheltered life if you haven't seen at least as many insulting remarks to Remainers or is it Remoaners.
One of the favourites being "You lost, suck it up" - I wonder who really lost.
I won't argue with what you say about percentages. I was merely pointing out that 88% voted for the two parties now committed to leaving the EU - I never said 88% of people voted to leave or support leaving. Subtle difference. Any really deeply committed Remainer could have voted LIbDem / Green or SNP, even, but they didn't, so can I suggest that the time for Remoaning is over. They've had a second chance to right what they believe was a wrong decision, but decided against it, or, again, were in a minority.
How many more times / opportunities to vote do they want ? Best of five, best of seven ?
The other bit about 'In ' and 'Out' probably sums it all up. More people decided that the uncertainities of 'Out' were better than the certainties of 'In'. For whatever reason(s) they decided that as the EU will not change, then it was time to change the UK's position within the EU. Genuinely like a divorce, I suppose, you ask the person to change, the answer is a No, so you have to decide whether to be unhappy the rest of your life or quit, run, and try something else.
Well that's how I see it....
Risky ? Certainly....
Disaster ? Who knows....Could be a disaster for both the UK and the EU, or just the UK, or just the EU. All of us on here think we know the answer, but do any of us really know the answer ? No we don't, and it's madness and arrogance to pretend we do.
And finally....All-in-all, I'd rather have someone tell me to merely 'Suck it up' rather than be accused by someone who has never met me of being a xenophobic, ignorant, poorly educated, UKIP voting, racist ( don't mind the OAP bit. cause I am drawing a couple of pensions in addition to working ) just because I don't agree with them about BREXIT. Maybe you're just more easily offended than me.....
What if none of them do. Why is it irrelevant, if you have no means of changing anything, you have no say at all, a pointless vote.
The two main parties who are the only ones who could get elected are divided themselves and they're both claiming that they got such a high proportion of the vote but they did only because there is nothing else not that they are so wonderful.
If you have no beliefs or morals yes. In a PR system you can still end up with one party rule if you get enough votes. PR is also not perfect, you will see this with mays crappy coalition.In a PR system, yes. In a first past the post, voting for one of the smaller parties in most seats is basically wasting your vote.
You may see it as that but I don't get it, if its not going to change from the big 2 then not-many in the country share your view and you are someone with individual opinions. My mrs mearly always votes for Greens or any party that is for animal protection, its what she believes in. I will always vote left but the more left the better.
You may see it as that but I don't get it, if its not going to change from the big 2 then not-many in the country share your view and you are someone with individual opinions. My mrs mearly always votes for Greens or any party that is for animal protection, its what she believes in. I will always vote left but the more left the better.
As I've said in previous posts voting LibDem or Green would have been a waste of time so remainers are not necessarily in a minority so no-one knows, this election seemed more of a vote of damage limitation because they knew there wouldn't be a second referendum.
If you took the MPs who were pro-Remain prior to the referendum 73% were pro-Remain so ... which MP do I vote for - the one that is pro-Remain, oh good he's been elected - well that went well, didn't it.
You could take a chance of running across a busy motorway without looking left or right, there's a small chance you won't get hit but logic says you will.
Nobody knows what the actual outcome will be exactly but I fail to see how British people's lives are going to improve. Personally leaps into the unknown would not be my choice.
As for insults there are many about, and I chose a milder one for an example but personally if people called me names I couldn't care less but some people do get offended.
Anyway talks start tomorrow, let's see how this pans out and how the mood changes or not as they progress
but would you vote for party x if you shared their views but had no chance of winning?But I wouldn't want to vote Greens or LibDems anyway or even Labour for that matter. As I said in the post above most of the MP's I might have voted for were pro-Remain - where would that have got me?
But what about an all-party Negotiating Team ? What do you reckon ?
but would you vote for party x if you shared their views but had no chance of winning?
I think they had / have 3. At the moment there is no dutch govt cos they are unable to form a coalition, all parties have decided not to work with geert wilders, the 2nd largest party, and I find that a joke. forget his views for a sec and realise the 'new govt' wants to ignore a large section of voters.My Dutch neighbours told me last year that some 'Animal Rights Party' have actually got some MPs in the Dutch Parliament because of the Dutch voting system.
Is that right ?
That hasn't answered my question mr politicianNo, I'd just be out of there if all the electable parties were totally against my views and would damage my future and little chance of change in the foreseeable future. If I hadn't left the Uk already I certainly would now.
I can't live in a fantasy world where there is , in reality, no hope of what I would want to happen occurs.
That hasn't answered my question mr politician
people in the UK may think they are unique but they aren't, everywhere there are politicians that want caps on migration. call us racist if you want.
I believe immigration within the eu is not really immigration, it's moving country by freedom of choice due to open borders. Its Rutte that wants to block non eu migrants and that goes against the greens. Personally I recognise no difference, everyone in the world should be given the chance to improve their lives and being part of a shitty club should not give you preference, in fact it should hinder you. It's such a great club where every country and everyone is equal.Is that immigration from the EU or from outside the EU or from everywhere. When the UK realises that stopping the EU immigration doesn't stop the 190000 from outside the EU which will probably increase because of the EU issue, what will they say then.
