That comparison is somewhat specious tbh- Europe took a lot longer to come out of recession and the UK has been pounding it for ages. I'll take any positive growth for now- certainly not relishing Q1 and Q2 in 2019...
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
As was pointed out 18 months ago but would they listen ... hence the expression "shooting yourself in the foot" - brilliantly done by the Brexiters
Boris says one thing, Davis says another, Hammond says something completely different only to be rebuked by Fox who says something completely different. Honestly I pity the EU negotiators. They probably don't know what has hit them and will be blamed by the Brexiters if things go tits up.
Not sure what you mean by that.
I'd say it's the other way round. I freely admit we returned to growth faster than a few nations, and had better growth from 2012 to 2014.
But to claim 0.2% and now 0.3% Growth is "good" is a bit worrying to me.
You can see we've been ahead of Germany for about six years until now. By 'good', I'm merely saying that in comparison to what I fear is around the corner.Not sure what you mean by that.
I'd say it's the other way round. I freely admit we returned to growth faster than a few nations, and had better growth from 2012 to 2014.
But to claim 0.2% and now 0.3% Growth is "good" is a bit worrying to me.
Yeah. I'm absolutely regarding what comes next.
- UK Private debt up to record levels
- UK Government Debt approaching 100% GDP
- UK Deficit still around pre-2008 levels and set to increase this year
- A decade of QE.
- Brexit.
And whatever slack was in the UK economy has surely been taken up. Inflation has risen far faster than wages. Services have been cut year on year.
I know they say don't time the markets, but if there is the same crash again it would be a lot worse.
Its interesting if you look t the rise in poverty levels across Europe since the crash, obviously Greece are leading the pack by miles since they returned to the stone age, didn't they also have better growth % than the uk? Better growth does not necessarily mean 'Better times for everyone'
http://theconversation.com/how-poverty-has-radically-shifted-across-europe-in-the-last-decade-61047
http://theconversation.com/how-poverty-has-radically-shifted-across-europe-in-the-last-decade-61047
I'm not sure the argument we're doing better than Greece is particularly compelling and you would imagine that better growth is a necessary even if insufficient condition for 'better times for everyone' - at least economically speaking.
If you control this chart for EU countries it transpires that the UK does not do extravagantly well on income inequality (You can also see changes over time by expanding the bar on the right of the options menu). What is interesting when playing with the timeline is how inequality is shown to have increased before the 09 crash, diminished during the crash and has been trending higher again ever since. The Tories are just the latest in a long line of governments that have ignored income inequality in this country.
Though still not splendid the OECD metrics do indicate we fare a bit better on both the poverty rate itself and the poverty gap (how far below the poverty line the poor actually are). That said, we still constantly fare worse than the EU average, and definitely worse than virtually all other advanced EU economies in both charts.
Altogether the charts seem to indicate we are the proud owners of a relatively unequal European economy, where a greater ratio of people live in poverty than average, and where those people are on average further below the poverty line than elsewhere in Europe.
Obviously this data has limitations since the variables are country specific and tied to that country's median income. By these metrics if 100% of people couldn't afford bread but everybody got the same piddling wage nobody would be defined as being in poverty. Meanwhile a stupendously rich economy where the poorest 10% could only afford a second hand ferrari while the median could afford a couple of islands would be riddled with it.
It is definitely useful data when comparing inequality though and following that inequality over time. Sadly we don't seem to be an admirable case.
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Dam stupid Brexit voters shooting themselves the foot.
Oh.
Oh.
They're equally as stupid as the Brexit voters but 100% of Brexit voters wished economic damage on the UK because that outcome was a guaranteed certainty and for what purpose? "To get our country back"
You left out the best part - that 61% of leave voters wouldn't object to significantly damaging the economy in return for leaving the EU; and 40% of the mostly retirretired over 65s wouldn't mind if their family members lost their jobs as a result.
Such a selfless bunch.
Oh God didn't see that one.
50%
It's more like 4 in 5 Remainers in this thread. All of whom would deny that of course, but no matter, they'd love it.
Bollocks. The key reason to remain for me is to avoid the economic instability that could cost me my job. It's my #1 priority and I'm sure many othersvfeel the same.
That's why I voted Remain too, not for my job but for others. Reading the comments of Remainers on here specifically though, as opposed to the general population, it's pretty obvious a lot are lapping up every supposed disaster rather than hoping for the best outcome as anyone sensible should be doing.
I certainly want Brexit to be a success simply because there is no backing out now. I think it's quite possibly the worst decision the UK public has ever made mind.
Part of me dreads it being a success simply because Alt-Right tossers like Katie Hopkins / Paul Joseph Watson & even Trump will milk the feck out of it.
Once we do leave, it's going to be horrible regardless I think.. Both sides will exaggerate any positives / negatives that suit their agenda.
A bit like Trump supporters bragging about some of the positives recently which have most likely occurred due to Obama and not Trump.
It's going to be a complete shit show, sucking up to that tangoed cnut, moving away from Europe, it can only end in disaster.
Part of me dreads it being a success simply because Alt-Right tossers like Katie Hopkins / Paul Joseph Watson & even Trump will milk the feck out of it.
Once we do leave, it's going to be horrible regardless I think.. Both sides will exaggerate any positives / negatives that suit their agenda.
A bit like Trump supporters bragging about some of the positives recently which have most likely occurred due to Obama and not Trump.
It's going to be a complete shit show, sucking up to that tangoed cnut, moving away from Europe, it can only end in disaster.
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I don't think it's a case of lapping it up, more the feeling of being proved right despite having been dismissed as fearmongering.
At the end of the day Brexit is likely to be disastrous for most people with jobs, mortgages and without a triple locked pension.
Interesting questions
Knowing the dupes who voted for it still can't see the economic damage, let alone the long term damage to our relationships with our European neighbours is still frustrating. Knowing that the cretins we have left in charge of our exit negotiations have no plan and even less of a clue how to minimise the damage that will be done to our economy is terrifying and watching them deliberately and repeatedly pissing off our European neighbours is thoroughly miserable.
Do I want the UK to suffer as a result of Brexit? No.
Do I believe there is anything but suffering in our future as a result of this clusterfeck of a decision and it's subsequent mishandling? No.
Feck all this typical Remoaner bollocks though, I have every right to still protest this idiocy and to believe that those who have willfully pushed it on Britain deserve any suffering Brexit brings them. I will undoubtedly suffer too, most likely in the pension and retirement age areas but I know many of those who voted Brexit will suffer far more than I and whilst my socialist heart will always want to see a narrowing of the wealth divide in Britain I can't help but feel that when some of these cnuts reap what they have sewn a little schadenfreude will help to take the edge off my own personal issues.
I've been living in the UK for quite some time and I've yet to understand why elderly people here hate the younger generation so much. Its not just Brexit. The elderly generation had given the go ahead for university fees. They left the NHS in shambles. Their generation allowed property to become so expensive and they left the UK sitting on a pile of debt.
I really hope the young generation will learn to be smarter by voting more and wisely so they can screw over those who keep screwing them all the time. Let the elderly generation feel the brunt of Brexit too
I really hope the young generation will learn to be smarter by voting more and wisely so they can screw over those who keep screwing them all the time. Let the elderly generation feel the brunt of Brexit too
That's just insane, I hate the younger generation too. You don't often see them on the streets protesting for what they believe in, maybe cos they don't really believe in anything or at least not with any passion.
My grandfather is the only person I consider as a hero. He was as straight as an arrow, he never swore or raised his voice. He only broke the law once and that was when he lied about his age (he was underage) to serve the army during WW2. After the Brits left he worked very hard in a very difficult time. He was a business man but he reduced his salary substantially during the 70s recession just to keep as many people at work as possible. He would do part time work to sustain her in laws whose father (my great grand father) was ill for quite a long time. A devout catholic he was one of the famous soldiers of steel who faced interdiction (ie a local version of excommunication) just because he supported the labour party who wanted to increase worker rights and reduce the church's power.
He died of parkinsons disease which is a very cruel death tbh. He was in pain but his only concern was that they might send him home were he would be a burden to my grandmother. I never saw a man who loved his wife and his family more then he did. He puts each and everyone of us to shame really.
Once I asked him how would he described a life as a failure. He told me, quite clearly that a person can consider his life as a failure if his own family ended up with a worse standard of living then he had. Ultimately we all die but what we left behind is what truly matters. That mentality is shared by many elderly people in Malta. Hence why I find it strange how so many elderly people in here like to screw the younger generation up.
I repeat this has nothing to do with Brexit and there are many things that are way better in the UK then in Malta. The infrastructure for example is horrible (roads etc) and law enforcement leave much to be desired. There's a reason why I moved in the UK and I assure you its not a financial reason. On that regard I am way better off in Malta
Just imagine if his idea of 'the right thing' was not the same as his grandkids idea. Thats what you have now if you believe old people are screwing the young.
They are screwing the young
It's not just that
Tony Blair ran on a "stop young people being thugs" campaign in 1997. (not quite, but basically).
(start at 16:40)
Ran on stopping young people harassing pensioners. Created the ASBO. etc.
I would say the older generation tend to afraid of yobs, and that makes a lot of sense.
There is a distinct lack of respect for older people in British society. I know I'm talking sterotypes here, but you see elsewhere where it is actually a "macho" thing to help old ladies cross the street. Here, that is not the macho thing, caring for the elderly is done by machines, by paid help or not at all. How we treat the elderly in this country is a great crime.
So the older generation probably do hate the younger generation in a way. Not their specific grand children, but the general youth, who is loud and disrespectful, and sometimes abusive and scary.
There is a distinct lack of respect for older people in British society. I know I'm talking sterotypes here, but you see elsewhere where it is actually a "macho" thing to help old ladies cross the street. Here, that is not the macho thing, caring for the elderly is done by machines, by paid help or not at all. How we treat the elderly in this country is a great crime.
So the older generation probably do hate the younger generation in a way. Not their specific grand children, but the general youth, who is loud and disrespectful, and sometimes abusive and scary.
Irony being in migrant communities the elders are revered with 3 generations often sharing the same home
I don't think that putting kids into debt through expensive university tuition fees, keep voting for governments who had appeased a sharp increase of work on zero hours and making it impossible for young people to go up the property ladder can ever be considered as doing the right thing. Its more of the case of hating (or at least not giving a damn feck) about the younger generation. Im all right.....
Its more the case of Im allright feck you jack. The Tory party with his aggressive capitalist mentality had made it very hard for the younger generation to do well. Yet the elderly seem to keep voting for it because it takes care of their own interest
It would be interested to ask those people if they still favour Brexit if it meant that there will be a serious reduction on pensions and would mean the end of free NHS and elderly care.
Sorry if this is a repost:
Its not like the young people are not voting for themselves. They are equally spiteful and are doing whatever they can every election but they just dont have the numbers.
Personally, I think the under 30 of today are the worst bunch I see compared to under40s, under50s or older. Whats alarming is that the under20s are likely going to be even worse.
Personally, I think the under 30 of today are the worst bunch I see compared to under40s, under50s or older. Whats alarming is that the under20s are likely going to be even worse.
equally spiteful in what way exactly?
Damn right, we should be blowing those dumb dinosaurs every time the cost of living goes and another of our rights is taken away.
“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” Socrates
Great footballer.
Maybe the Yoof should have got off their fat lazy arses during the referendum, thats where remainers need to direct their contempt. Your own age group let you down.