Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I see she's met with opposition party leaders tonight, making out that she's some sort of saviour prepared to do whatever is in the nation's best interests. She's had two fecking years to consult other parties and try and reach a consensus with them. Instead she's spent that time trying to conjure a deal that can placate the No Deal supporting extremists in her own party.

Nope .She just couldn't find a deal better than Remain.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Corbyn is a dickwad who like shit stirring with no strong opinions of his own.

 

[Raulduke]

 

[Smores]

May has had years to get them round the table. She instead froze them out and waited until her deal was humiliated in the vote, and now with weeks left invites them for talks.

It's not even talks, she has no intention of changing anything she's just creating another false progress so she can take her deal unchanged back to parlaiment and claim this is it there's nothing else that will pass.

Maybe with some promises on domestic policy to win them over, we all know the lib dems like that and some threats that she'll go forward with no deal if they don't buckle.

There's a very pragmatic way forward, request the temp extension offered to form a proper cross-party mechanism not overseen by May and then if we have something that will pass get the full extension to negotiate it.

 

[Smores]

Which shows how much politics she's playing. Won't be clear with parliament or her country because it's bad optics but will instruct her lackey to calm business leaders.

 

[Strachans Cigar]

May has had years to get them round the table. She instead froze them out and waited until her deal was humiliated in the vote, and now with weeks left invites them for talks.

She inherited an outright majority from Cameron, so, -in theory- she didn’t need anyone else.

Obviously the further election she called backfired & didn’t strengthen her position but she still had the DUP for her majority.

Clear case of underestimating Hard Brexiteers in her own party, despite the very clear warnings.

So yes, could have been handled better by May, no doubting that at all.

Politics is still very tribal in this country unfortunately and therefore it isn’t usual to see Labour/Conservative cooperation.

So it wouldn’t be deemed “natural” for May to reach out to Corbyn before she ends up shit creek would it? We’d think May was weird or just well, up shit creek or something.

The comments on political threads on this forum are testament to the very tribal nature of politics in this country...& a lot of it is BS really.

It’s not like supporting a football team. No party has a monopoly on good ideas. I’m sure if they REALLY REALLY wanted to, Labour and Conservatives could find workable, compromise solutions on quite a lot of policies actually.

Personally, it’s something I’d like to see more of in British politics.

If Proportional Representation ever came in, you may find the two main parties have to work together in a so-called Grand Coalition. It would save a lot of the “vote in, vote out, vote in, vote out” changeabilty / “rip it up & start again” nature of policy. It would also help to avoid left/right extremes in policy. Not a bad thing imo. Maybe a bit bland for some. But I’d take it.

 

[Abizzz]

With the shambles of politicking, EU perhaps think if they give them more time to exhaust their idea of making a deal, then they'll eventually come to recognize that staying in is the only option left.

They can't possibly think the current Britain that is seriously contemplating a no deal brexit will completely change it's mind within 3 months though? If the extension was 5 years I could see the point... but 3 months?

I see this as MPs don't support current deal, but still have confidence in May to work out a better deal. So no to the deal and yes to the government.

How much clearer could she have been that this was the only deal? How can they have confidence in her to secure a better deal when she categorically ruled out negotiating another one 24 hours ago? Do her words not matter?

 

[Stanley Road]

Saw 'call me dave' interviewed on the news. Said he didnt regret his decision to call ref, then ran off. Seem familiar?

 

[stevoc]

In a coalition of the left I’m pretty sure there would be a good chance likes of the SNP, Plaid, Green, would be making demands on Labour.

What was the alternative with the Tories being largest party at the last election? It was on them to try and form a government.

A billion quid. Sounds like a lot but in gvmt terms it isn’t really. And it’s not like the DUP intend pissing it up the wall. They intend on spending it to the betterment of NI, and I for one don’t begrudge them seeing as they effectively fought a civil war over there for over 30 years.

I wish we all lived in a world where the DUP were as philanthropic as that.

I'd hoped that after 2 years in the limelight as part of the government that most people in Britain would have a fair idea by now what the DUP are all about.

I'm absolutely sure the creationist, anti abortionist, sectarian, former terrorist, hard right bible literalists of the DUP will use that money to the betterment of NI.

This post sums them up well, they're a bunch of self serving headbangers.

 

[Steerpike]

Corbyn saying May should rule out “no deal” before talking.

Doesn’t he realise the EU set the deadline date, not the British Government, so how can May possibly agree it won’t happen?

Posturing & more BS, basically.

Just get round the table now and act like grown ups ffs. No time for stalling

Yes, it's odd that the strongly pro-EU Liberal Democrats were prepared to begin conversations with no pre-conditions, as were the strongly pro-EU SNP. It is just posturing by Corbyn, and it will be widely recognised as such.

The reality is that the full range of options, all the way from no deal through to no Brexit, have their supporters, but no single position can command anything approaching a majority. There will sooner or later have to be compromises or, failing that, a second referendum (I don't much like this idea, but I can see it transpiring). The alternative would be a no deal Brexit by default.

 

[RK]

How would No Deal get taken off the table exactly?
The only way to guarantee that is to agree some deal before 29th March. And the only way to do that is cross-party conversations.

I think the sensible option right now is to revoke Article 50, giving the parties time to create a reasonable Brexit path, something the government should've done over 2 years ago.

My hope is that the UK ask the EU for an extension, which is only granted on the condition of the UK holding a public vote (of some sort, maybe a second referendum) which ends up cancelling the whole thing.

 

[Wibble]

Saw 'call me dave' interviewed on the news. Said he didnt regret his decision to call ref, then ran off. Seem familiar?

He saw a pig's head and had to run off to insert himself into it. Priorities.

Allegedly.

 

[Wibble]

High stakes games going on with little transparency for us to know what is likely to happen. If a delay to exit is requested the EU would presumably have conditions e.g. a second referendum as I doubt they would give one just to allow May to feck around some more.

 

[Wibble]

She inherited an outright majority from Cameron, so, -in theory- she didn’t need anyone else.

Obviously the further election she called backfired & didn’t strengthen her position but she still had the DUP for her majority.

Clear case of underestimating Hard Brexiteers in her own party, despite the very clear warnings.

So yes, could have been handled better by May, no doubting that at all.

Politics is still very tribal in this country unfortunately and therefore it isn’t usual to see Labour/Conservative cooperation.

So it wouldn’t be deemed “natural” for May to reach out to Corbyn before she ends up shit creek would it? We’d think May was weird or just well, up shit creek or something.

The comments on political threads on this forum are testament to the very tribal nature of politics in this country...& a lot of it is BS really.

It’s not like supporting a football team. No party has a monopoly on good ideas. I’m sure if they REALLY REALLY wanted to, Labour and Conservatives could find workable, compromise solutions on quite a lot of policies actually.

Personally, it’s something I’d like to see more of in British politics.

If Proportional Representation ever came in, you may find the two main parties have to work together in a so-called Grand Coalition. It would save a lot of the “vote in, vote out, vote in, vote out” changeabilty / “rip it up & start again” nature of policy. It would also help to avoid left/right extremes in policy. Not a bad thing imo. Maybe a bit bland for some. But I’d take it.

Or annual general elections.

 

[RochaRoja]

I had a debate with one of my colleagues who voted for Brexit the other day - and this whole idea of the British Empire being able to negotiate better deals without the EU.

The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day, but I think it feeds into the notion of some of those who support Brexit.

Most British people are either unaware or underestimate the crimes of the British Empire. British culture in general tries to sell this white washed myth of the empire that was an unambiguous force for good.

 

[GloryHunter07]

“Under domestic law, extending article 50 would require changes to the March 29 exit date set in the EU Withdrawal Act. As a matter of EU law, the text of article 50 states that the UK cannot unilaterally extend the two-year negotiation period. Nor can it “demand” an extension. It can only “ask for” one.”

Ah, so we can ask for an extension these days. The EU should tell us to feck off in that case.

The Uk set the deadline by activating article 50. It was also a British bloke who drafted article 50 in the first place.

 

[B20]

I had a debate with one of my colleagues who voted for Brexit the other day - and this whole idea of the British Empire being able to negotiate better deals without the EU.

The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day, but I think it feeds into the notion of some of those who support Brexit.

It's similar reasons the English have never really taken to the EU. It's fine to tell the conquered dominions that we are stronger together and should be closer. It's something else when these thoughts come from somewhere else.

I think on some subconscious level England can't help perceive the EU as some kind of foreign subversive invader than as the alliance of equals that they are actually a self chosen part of.

 

[ErranMorad]

What a mess. The UK is fecked.

 

[dogrob]

It's similar reasons the English have never really taken to the EU. It's fine to tell the conquered dominions that we are stronger together and should be closer. It's something else when these thoughts come from somewhere else.

I think on some subconscious level England can't help perceive the EU as some kind of foreign subversive invader than as the alliance of equals that they are actually a self chosen part of.

Somewhere in this thread is a video in a pub where people are getting interviewed about Brexit, that idiot Farage was there and they asked some guy his thoughts and he started prattling on about there being millions in the British Empire and that after Brexit we would control the Empire again or words to that effect, I watched it with disbelief how could anyone be so stupid to make such a comment, did he even consider what the countries that used to be a part of the Empire would say to that, its the same with these comments that after the second world war we came back but these people dont understand that the generation back then had, had two world wars in around a twenty five year period and these people were made of sterner stuff than those today because of that.

 

[Relfy]

I agree that the referendum has amplified the divisions within the UK. But they were there nevertheless, always have been, and are widening as the economic equality gap widens (I'm not necessarily blaming the EU for the this inequality just stating it as a precursor of the vote) I feel the vote has brought things to a head. If not this vote there would have been another protest manifestation of the legitimate and deep discontent in parts of the UK - for some discontent and the desire for change has been the norm and has been for decades. For those in the UK who have done well this is difficult to grasp and is fuel on the fire of division.

Oh yeah, the vote amplified any such feelings beyond boiling point. We saw people who may never normally would have had a strong view on the EU come out and be firmly on one side of the fence - I'd include myself in this category. There was a rumble of discontent, though the level of such discontent could be based on where you live and the local feeling of course, but I don't feel like we were on the verge of any impending meltdown if the referendum hadn't of been called. If anything we needed extra time so we could have had a government that could have laid out a plan in the event of the leave vote, or least competent enough to have provided the public with a balanced argument. We may have actually had a chance of providing a deal which works for everyone instead of this clusterfeck we find ourselves in now.

 

[Lastwolf]

I wish we all lived in a world where the DUP were as philanthropic as that.

I'd hoped that after 2 years in the limelight as part of the government that most people in Britain would have a fair idea by now what the DUP are all about.



This post sums them up well, they're a bunch of self serving headbangers.

I don't think anyone, with any degree of intelligence, is unaware of the nature of the DUP.

The pissing contest between them and Sinn Fein has been going on since the forever, I'm not entirely convinced that they aren't pro gay marriage just because DUP won the coin toss to be against it. I feel like the middle ground reasonable people of both sides, gave us peace, but polarized the voter base for each side for the perceived betrayal, which shows how mental our place is that the UUP and SDLP are "reasonable".

I was quite buoyed by the rise of the Alliance party but then they had to go a take down that flag nobody noticed was there and now, we're back to square negative one.

At this point in my life I'm pro united Ireland just so none of these cnuts would really matter any more.

 

[Honest John]

Oh yeah, the vote amplified any such feelings beyond boiling point. We saw people who may never normally would have had a strong view on the EU come out and be firmly on one side of the fence - I'd include myself in this category. There was a rumble of discontent, though the level of such discontent could be based on where you live and the local feeling of course, but I don't feel like we were on the verge of any impending meltdown if the referendum hadn't of been called. If anything we needed extra time so we could have had a government that could have laid out a plan in the event of the leave vote, or least competent enough to have provided the public with a balanced argument. We may have actually had a chance of providing a deal which works for everyone instead of this clusterfeck we find ourselves in now.

This is true. This is a whipped up mess. If you look at the level of vitriol there is out there now you would think that before the referendum the issue of membership of the EU would have been on every TV documentary every news bulletin, people getting in fist fights in pubs, civil unrest. That was never the case. What you had was a bunch of Eurosceptics that were a boil on the arse of the Tory party and Cameron tried to lance it. The ruse backfired because millions of disenfranchised people used the Referendum to vent all of their frustrations. Not just with this government but with successive governments.

They will also expect the vote to be honoured. Not only that but they will also expect their lot to change manifestly for the better (as promised!).

Anything less will result in major civil unrest in the short term and when that is calmed, total disillusionment with all future governments of whatever stripe.

The question should never have been asked.

 

[Wibble]

Most British people are either unaware or underestimate the crimes of the British Empire. British culture in general tries to sell this white washed myth of the empire that was an unambiguous force for good.

It was pretty good for us.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Whatever happened to Breakfast Means Breakfast?

 

[2mufc0]

It was pretty good for us.

Was good for people of a certain complexion definitely, if that outweighs the harm done to the darker subjects is clear to see.

 

[villain]

It's similar reasons the English have never really taken to the EU. It's fine to tell the conquered dominions that we are stronger together and should be closer. It's something else when these thoughts come from somewhere else.

I think on some subconscious level England can't help perceive the EU as some kind of foreign subversive invader than as the alliance of equals that they are actually a self chosen part of.

Good point. The duality of celebrating ruling other territories via the Empire, and not wanting to be ruled by a European allegiance is quite striking.

 

[Mb194dc]

How would No Deal get taken off the table exactly?
The only way to guarantee that is to agree some deal before 29th March. And the only way to do that is cross-party conversations.

I think the sensible option right now is to revoke Article 50, giving the parties time to create a reasonable Brexit path, something the government should've done over 2 years ago.

My hope is that the UK ask the EU for an extension, which is only granted on the condition of the UK holding a public vote (of some sort, maybe a second referendum) which ends up cancelling the whole thing.

Agree with this, I think the EU27 will only grant an extension for an election, it's also possible they could do if we wanted to add the 4 freedoms in to the existing deal to remove the backstop. That would just be remaining on worse terms though and I can't see how it would fly. Better just to withdraw article 50.

I don't think a second referendum is a good idea because it will increase bitterness and resentment on both sides, and the result would never be accepted, especially if it was the deal v remain.

Parliament should do it's job and just revoke article 50 explaining to the British people that all the options are terrible, none deliver on the 2016 referendum result and that is therefore the only choice. We also then need a GE and May needs to be removed.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Think some are overestimating the intelligence of the UK electorate.

Except for a small minority of Rees Mogg types who have wet dreams of Mother Britannia's deeply imperialist history, the referendum result wasn't because of frustrations with the nuances of the EU. Most wouldn't have even known basics about its structure, or how it works.

In the eyes of the layman, there was one key issue that EU membership associated with, and that was immigration. More
than anything, the UK's deeply ingrained issues with racism were exposed.

 

[B20]

Think some are overestimating the intelligence of the UK electorate.

Except for a small minority of Rees Mogg types who have wet dreams of Mother Britannia's deeply imperialist history, the referendum result wasn't because of frustrations with the nuances of the EU. Most wouldn't have even known basics about its structure, or how it works.

In the eyes of the layman, there was one key issue that EU membership associated with, and that was immigration. More
than anything, the UK's deeply ingrained issues with racism were exposed.

Sovereignty was a pretty big issue during the election too.

 

[Smores]

How would No Deal get taken off the table exactly?
The only way to guarantee that is to agree some deal before 29th March. And the only way to do that is cross-party conversations.

I think the sensible option right now is to revoke Article 50, giving the parties time to create a reasonable Brexit path, something the government should've done over 2 years ago.

My hope is that the UK ask the EU for an extension, which is only granted on the condition of the UK holding a public vote (of some sort, maybe a second referendum) which ends up cancelling the whole thing.

It gets informally taken of the table by May removing the threat and guaranteeing that she'll request an extension or revokation if neccesary.

That's all that needs to be done, a simple statement of intent. If the EU don't grant it (and for those following they've already said they will for a short term and long term) then it's not on May.

 

[Wibble]

If one more politician says "Lets be clear" before being anything but I am going to .......

 

[Massive Spanner]

If one more politician says "Lets be clear" before being anything but I am going to .......

"let's be clear here, Brexit means Brexit".

 

[JPRouve]

Whatever happened to Breakfast Means Breakfast?

Get eggs with it!

 

[Revan]

Goodness me...
The Withdrawal Bill was soundly rejected despite Mrs May having gone to the EU to try and get an improvement to it which would have made it more acceptable to Parliament.

Again today they reiterated that there can be no improvement.
There is no incentive for them to concede any ground while there is a chance of a second referendum which could potentially reverse the leave vote.

They actually said that they will give a better deal if UK allows freedom of movement.

British people who want a much better deal than Norway while UK doesn't allow freedom of movement are living in a parallel universe. It ain't gonna happen. It doesn't matter that Britain Empire was the biggest empire ever and the sun never set on British Empire, it ain't gonna happen. The moment they realize it, the better for them.

At this moment, EU holds all the cards, and actually they have given a more than generous deal to UK. UK should stop bitching, either accept it, do hard Brexit or revoke Article 50.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Think some are overestimating the intelligence of the UK electorate.

Except for a small minority of Rees Mogg types who have wet dreams of Mother Britannia's deeply imperialist history, the referendum result wasn't because of frustrations with the nuances of the EU. Most wouldn't have even known basics about its structure, or how it works.

In the eyes of the layman, there was one key issue that EU membership associated with, and that was immigration. More
than anything, the UK's deeply ingrained issues with racism were exposed.

Which begs the question for me, why are leave voters so unhappy with May's deal?

I can understand remain voters not liking the deal, but didn't her deal offer,

• "Control" of our borders
• No payments to the EU
• No obligation to follow EU law

Aren't these the main points Leave voters wanted?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Which begs the question for me, why are leave voters so unhappy with May's deal?

I can understand remain voters not liking the deal, but didn't her deal offer,

• "Control" of our borders
• No payments to the EU
• No obligation to follow EU law

Aren't these the main points Leave voters wanted?

Not really.

In their eyes the backstop leaves them tied to the EU indefinitely, because they know there's no solution to the backstop that isn't diabolical for .. everyone, and therefore they'd probably never get out. They see the only way of getting 'control' as crashing out on March 29th with no agreement.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Not really.

In their eyes the backstop leaves them tied to the EU indefinitely, because they know there's no solution to the backstop that isn't diabolical for .. everyone, and therefore they'd probably never get out. They see the only way of getting 'control' as crashing out on March 29th with no agreement.

The backstop really confuses me to be honest. It doesn't affect freedom of movement does it? So the leave voters that wanted to stop the eastern Europeans invading still get what they want?

 

[Mb194dc]

Think some are overestimating the intelligence of the UK electorate.

Except for a small minority of Rees Mogg types who have wet dreams of Mother Britannia's deeply imperialist history, the referendum result wasn't because of frustrations with the nuances of the EU. Most wouldn't have even known basics about its structure, or how it works.

In the eyes of the layman, there was one key issue that EU membership associated with, and that was immigration. More
than anything, the UK's deeply ingrained issues with racism were exposed.

Personally I don't think that is correct at all.

The UK is and has been prepared to accept immigrants for hundreds of years. They are very welcome almost everywhere and run most of the vital public services in the country as well as almost the entire hospitality industry in London and the South East. In fact in my experience lots of businesses in the South East tend to avoid hiring English people as they're too lazy!

The issue is that people in the UK felt disenfranchised because immigration was not under the control of the UK parliament and they therefore didn't get any direct say in it. The conservatives set out ludicrous migration targets that further exposed this issue. This isn't an issue in the rest of the EU because the countries are much less tolerant of immigration in the first place. France is a pretty good example of this.

If the UK government did have control full of immigration it may come from different parts of the world but wouldn't markedly change in my opinion. People in the UK want immigration and can see that it is a very positive thing. They're mostly concerned with their economic well being, and house prices...

 

[stevoc]

I don't think anyone, with any degree of intelligence, is unaware of the nature of the DUP.

The pissing contest between them and Sinn Fein has been going on since the forever, I'm not entirely convinced that they aren't pro gay marriage just because DUP won the coin toss to be against it. I feel like the middle ground reasonable people of both sides, gave us peace, but polarized the voter base for each side for the perceived betrayal, which shows how mental our place is that the UUP and SDLP are "reasonable".

I was quite buoyed by the rise of the Alliance party but then they had to go a take down that flag nobody noticed was there and now, we're back to square negative one.

At this point in my life I'm pro united Ireland just so none of these cnuts would really matter any more.

Oh don't get me wrong mate i'm no fan of Sinn Fein either. Both just take the opposite stance of the other by default as you say. Sinn Fein came out as supporting remain in the referendum forcing the DUP to back leave. They played the DUP like a fiddle basically.

I also have my doubts about some of Sinn Fein's public opinions, but in terms of batshit crazy your average DUP member is on another level.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Whatever happened to Breakfast Means Breakfast?

Dog's Dinner means Dog's Dinner