And? Is the extent of your point 'Don't make that comparison because imo he hasn't earned it.'?
If so, well done on missing the point.
Can anyone who thinks we should have an overhaul or sack Mourinho post here please and explain why?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If so, well done on missing the point.
Pretty much sums it up for me.
Ended up 6th last year because he didn't believe in his or the team's ability to fight for top 4.
Bottled CL this year because didn't feel we could win it.
Quality of football has not improved in 2 years. There does not seem to be a long term plan.
Would not surprise me if we win the FA cup and those Jose supporters bleating on about him being a winner.
I hoped he would change at United. He hasn't.
I do not know who I prefer, but he and his football does absolutely zilch for me.
Don’t kid yourselves. Jose plays defensive as a necessity. Overall objective is winning but he’s too smart to get carried away and make decisions like a fan. Our team not good enough yet we always get pinned back.( vs Liverpool he was screaming at the players to get out not defend too deep).. at arsenal.... at anfield...by Sevilla.... because midfield not good enough yet and it’s not lost on Jose but it’s not like he can go to a press conference and hung Pogba etc to dry.. can he?
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People can say all they want... but we were 6th to currently second. A winning strategy starts with defensive stability unless you have the likes of Messi on your team. If Jose went on national tv and denounced or showed insecurity with defensive football... what does that say to the players. Woodward... another smart guy perfectly understands this and is still on board.
Promoting youth...another supposed weakness of his( now proven a myth) has been blown out of the water. At Chelsea it turns out ... he had nothing to work with and conte hasn’t done any better. And United.. not even Rashford, Jesse, Mc Tominay, would complain
What I've been trying to suggest on here too, but you have people claiming the opposite. They are not having it.
"Attack wins you games, Defence wins you titles."
-Sir Alex Ferguson
It's not the exciting football we want atm but he knows what he's trying to do imo.
Next up.. watch Tahith Chong(hopefully), Tuanzebe, Gomes(hopefully) these are the future alongside current debutants..Rashford etc and it turns out only patience will work. We can’t buy a full squad of superstars to fix our problems. We need passionate players who would die for the shirt.( the scholes and the Nevillles).. to get to the he really top
The stats do back this up however on the eyes it certainly doesn't feel like it, and De Gea is still way too busy for a defensively solid team imo.
I personally find Mourinho's football exciting. But then I've always been more about tactics than pretty passing triangles.
He sets his teams up to be solid first then, once that's achieved, they can be as attacking as you like. The problem is that neither of or previous two managers prioritised that sensibility. Jose is having to restructure the squad root-and-branch. The mentality of the players is a big part of that. There's not enough fight in the team, and sometimes you can't remedy that until they've gone through adversity together. The Sevilla defeat needs to be drummed into the players every single day until we win something significant.
He sets his teams up to be solid first then, once that's achieved, they can be as attacking as you like. The problem is that neither of or previous two managers prioritised that sensibility. Jose is having to restructure the squad root-and-branch. The mentality of the players is a big part of that. There's not enough fight in the team, and sometimes you can't remedy that until they've gone through adversity together. The Sevilla defeat needs to be drummed into the players every single day until we win something significant.
I honestly think we aren't far off. The fact that the defence isn't quite there yet effects the whole team. Once we get that close to sorted I feel you'll see the effects all the way up the pitch. Then we can start to tweak it. Just a feeling tho.... I wouldn't know.
I agree that a team has to be solid at the back but I see no sign of our defence improving. If anything it’s really quite poor from a tactical standpoint. I said this earlier in the season but he at this moment sacrifices the attack to defend by having our attackers defend to extremes. Yes have them help out, every top player should do that but instead he tucks the fullbacks in and has our wide forwards become the fullbacks. That to me isn’t a way to improve how your defence improves, especially when he is sacrificing so much at the other end.
On the pretty triangles more has been made of it over the last decade but it’s always been there and apart of every team and is the best method to create space, create openings as well as defending. If you’re not creating a “pretty triangle’ then you’re not a very good team.
We must be the opposite as I do enjoy the tactical aspects of games but I don’t enjoy watching United currently as to me Jose’s tactics are really fundamentals and not exactly ‘master classes’ but then it’s what has brought him so much success, just doing the simplest basic things really well.
You did not even address what I said.
Huh? Zero credit for getting back into the CL, winning us 2 trophies and bringing in some good players? He has credit from me.... Speak for yourself.
And the confidence in SAF was eroding which is why posters were calling for his head.
You can find the threads on here yourself.
Here knock yourself out...
The comparison is apt but the larger point of that post is just to ask peeps to calm down and be a bit more patient/optimistic. Do you disagree?
Zero credit relative to Fergie.
But there was some optimism after our end to the 05/06 season which was my point. Also, while there were questions on Fergie a lot of those threads you linked seem to be taking the piss and if they aren't they are immediately shot down. The sack Fergie brigade was decidedly a small minority in any case.
The comparison is not really apt because you could have applied the same criterion to LVG. I can totally feel the same pessimism and the annoyance after the Sevilla game. That was disgraceful. Just because Fergie turned it around doensn't mean Jose will. In fact history tell us with Jose that once he starts giving ridiculous interviews and throwing his players under the bus it only goes downhill from there.
I wanna be able to enjoy football matches and with Mourinho here, it's just never going to happen consistently.
I refuse the idea that we have to compromise being more entertaining and enjoyable with being too open and terrible at the back.
I refuse the idea that we have to compromise being more entertaining and enjoyable with being too open and terrible at the back.
You said we were making progress. I tried to explain why I think we have not made any substantial progress and we are unlikely to.
I've said elsewhere that Jose has to be given at least the three years of his original deal to build the side/ensemble the squa he wants. We are never gooing to be the dominant force we were under Fergie - not sure any side is ever going to do quite that again. We do indeed need a clear out of the dead wood (although who that is in my mind and others on here - and most importantly Jose's - will probably be different. But we need width so we need world-class wingers if such a thing exists and we need real fullbacks not failed wingers. Now I know lots of people here love Valencia but he simply isn't up to it when faced with players who are more than run-of-the-mill. Look how the likes of Juve, Bayern and Real Madrid defend, then look at Smalling, Valencia and Young and tel me you don't want to cry. I love Herrera's passion but he isn't close to being the class we need. It's time Jose either gave Shaw a run or sold him. All those players can go and we won't miss them but they have to be replaced with better quality players. I also think we might be looking for a new keeper in the summer although obviously I wouldn't want to sell DDG. If he goes, we need someone with Prem experience so it has to be Butland or maybe Pickford, unless Jose opts to go with Romero. So overhaul yes; Jose out no - and anyway who would we replace him with?
The defence he's built is shite, he's not even managing that much
Ok I disagree for the reasons I've stated. Your recollection of that period is as valid as mine. But I've just shown you 450+ redcafe threads yet you claim I'm wrong and/or exaggerating. You've shown me nothing tangible that shows that United fans on the whole were fine with the situation. You brought up the fact that some were piss takes and I alluded to this earlier, there were piss takes because it reached meme status.
Imo theres enough evidence to make a comparison, in yours there isn't. I say give him time you, say get shot. Let's agree to disagree on this one. Cest la vie...
It's obviously not though is it. Unless you have stats I'm not privy to. Besides the point anyway, that's where he is building from, which is why you see what you see. It's an explanation.... Maybe not one you want to hear or agree with. But one nonetheless...
Which was mentioned in my first post on this line of thought, but up until that point?
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Anyway I'm done, I'm not his defence force I'm just putting forward my point of view. Short of repeating myself I don't think there's much more for me to say in this thread.
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I didn't say United fans were fine with the situation. I literally said in that post that there were questions on Fergie. My point was that back end of the 05/06 season gave fans good reason for optimism going into the next season. With Jose, it seems to be getting worse if anything. I was even perfectly fine with the quality of football until the last 2/3 months where we've gotten progressively worse.
So explain the difference in our home form from last season?
Cos he's a cnut - always has been and always will be.. Will that do you?
Is this forum full of Man Utd haters? or have forgotten the times when we had Moyes and LVG has manager? people want managers who have won nothing or done nothing to replace one of the most successful mangers of football ever. people want a overhaul of the squad, and yet blame the manager at the same time. this people also claim they love that Sir Alex was at the club for so long, but one bad result and its off with the head.
See I just gave a bunch of reasons in my earlier post . I don't see you making any point at all.
Want me to say "So explain to me that cowardly strategy against Sevilla?"
Thanks for making pointless remarks. .Thought you were here to contribute something. Be happy with whatever rocks your boat.
So you dont think there has been improvement in our home form?
Attacking football. Actually rate our players and think most of them are capable of something great. Just need a new manager to implement.
I would guess that those who want a complete overhaul of the squad are generally from the FIFA/Football Manager generation of supporter. The answer isn't always to throw money at the squad. We have a crop of very talented attacking players that the current manager isn't getting the most out of, and that is the biggest area of improvement required.
I want Mourinho gone because I struggle to watch this brand of football - it's just not entertaining, it's negative and it's not acceptable for a club of our size and stature. The lack of attainable top quality managers makes it a difficult scenario, but I would love to see Marcelo Bielsa have a crack at a really top club. It'd certainly be entertaining and we would have a definitive identity again. It would almost certainly be too big a risk for the club though.
I want Mourinho gone because I struggle to watch this brand of football - it's just not entertaining, it's negative and it's not acceptable for a club of our size and stature. The lack of attainable top quality managers makes it a difficult scenario, but I would love to see Marcelo Bielsa have a crack at a really top club. It'd certainly be entertaining and we would have a definitive identity again. It would almost certainly be too big a risk for the club though.
And Spurs have won what..........
We need an overhaul of full backs and to sign a winger or two who are actual fecking wingers.
Assuming we finished top four I want Jose to get his third season.
Assuming we finished top four I want Jose to get his third season.
Nothing yet, but I'd rather win nothing and be building the right way with positive, progressive attacking football than scrape a couple of pots and rubber stamp that as being enough despite playing torturous, soul destroying football, we won one of those pots under LvG and rightfully still got rid of him, this football is just as bad and with a better set of players to choose from in attack. If Spurs win the FA Cup this year it will have taken him the same time it took Fergie to get one on the board at United, and he's building with a lot less funds than any United manager has had and is up against two mega funded giants.
The results have been better, but the performances are just as shite. A win does not make it a good performance as we saw tonight. Even Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs wins at home were not particularly good performances for 90 mins. We do not have a team that believes in the manager or a manager that believes in the team. For me the Rot set in at Anfield and we have not got out of it.
You really expect to get good answers? This is an internet forum full of regular Joe's who's got absolutely no clue about football, tactics and consequences, whose only experience is countless hours of playing Football Manager between 16 and 30. We all see what's wrong with our own eyes, every game, but few if any could explain why and how to fix it - whatever needs fixing. We did win two trophies last season, we can maybe win one this year as well (let Chelsea play Spurs in the semis and it's basically a 50/50 from here to win it). The last time I checked, football is about winning trophies and so far Klopp and Pochettino have nothing to show for in England.
We're in a classic teddybear crisis. We have a good team, but someone close to us have a better team. It's not a human right to win the league every year whilst playing magnificent football, especially if the club is from Manchester and not some metropole like Barcelona - which we have to admit, is a city people understandably want to live in over Manchester. Mourinho needs to figure a few things out though, because a sole FA Cup-title next year won't cut it if we're still 20 points behind and still playing comparably dull, uninspiring football and making world-class talents look like they're Stoke-players.
We're in a classic teddybear crisis. We have a good team, but someone close to us have a better team. It's not a human right to win the league every year whilst playing magnificent football, especially if the club is from Manchester and not some metropole like Barcelona - which we have to admit, is a city people understandably want to live in over Manchester. Mourinho needs to figure a few things out though, because a sole FA Cup-title next year won't cut it if we're still 20 points behind and still playing comparably dull, uninspiring football and making world-class talents look like they're Stoke-players.
How the hell can we be 2nd if any of the above is true? Other teams are literally flying and still find themselves behind us by the same margins for the entire season.
Doesn't the first five words answer that. If you think a win means a good performance then we are not on the same page. The fact the others are behind us suggests they are not as good as many make out. Liverpool thumping Watford 5-0 is not a reflection of their other performances. Only City are flying.
When Fergie took over we didn't have the money Spurs have now, that only came when the Glazers took over in 2003, and they only came in because of the incredible success we had experienced since the start of the Prem League.
Yeah the draws at home from last season have just magically turned into wins this season.
We still had good investment and Fergie didn't have the equivelant of City and current United to deal with like Pochettino has.
Not sure I agree with that, Fergie broke the british transfer record a few times. £2.3m for Pallister rings a bell prior to first FA Cup win, Keane was later on at £3.75m - this might not sound a lot now but it was groundbreaking fees in those days.. Van Nistelrooy at £19m & Veron at £28m were pre Glazer days also, Utd always backed Fergie and Fergie (barring the horse dispute, you could argue) always put Utd first.
I think anyone who wants Mourinho out this summer is out of their god damn minds. Football fans have become so fragile and reactionary
It's not "one bad result". Its multiple god awful performances, coupled with complete lack of accountability.
Because if it comes to the point where its either Mourinho leaves or one or a few of Pogba/Martial/De Gea leaves, I'm choosing the players to stay every time. I know the players at a club shouldn't run it, but in this case I would genuinely rather keep the players.