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Completely with Sarni here - ludicrous decision. Rules are rules and you have to draw the line somewhere but this offence is nowhere near that line. It's like sending someone off for a foul throw.
Celtic should withdraw. I care about fairness more than the law. Spirit of the law dictates they should. After all, the law is there to seek justice. Legia didn't gain any advantage with that late sub. It was a genuine mistake.
Perhaps all teams and players should stop kicking the ball out when a player is injured then !!
Hopefully UEFA tell Legia and their racist, nazi-loving ultra's where to go. They don't seem to have a problem with reading the rule book now, do they?
And Like I've said for the millionth time, they weren't disqualified from the tournament. They seem to think that is their punishment. If it were, they'd have a serious case for UEFA to reduce their punishment to something more fitting to the crime. As it is, their punishment is a 3-0 forfeit, which, conveniently, takes us through on away goals. Nothing more, nothing less. For UEFA to reduce that punishment to something lesser simply so Legia get reinstated would be disgraceful. It's such a basic and common rule. A forfeited match results in a 3-0 victory for the other side. They can't reduce that and simply fine them when ultimately they fielded a fecking suspended player.
If they win their appeal I'd love Celtic to appeal in turn. I'd also love Ludogorets to appeal the decision too. They're supposed to be seeded if Legia are in the tournament over Celtic. If Legia takes Celtic's place then Ludogorets have a much harder tie than they should have.
Edit: Normally appeals are a chance to prove or at least claim your innocence. Can Legia prove they're innocent? No. They've already admitted they're guilty. They broke UEFA rules! What is the purpose of their appeal other than a desperate attempt to tug on the heartstrings of UEFA. Would they be happy if UEFA changed their decision and, with absolutely no precedent whatsoever, ruled that it was not a 3-0 win for Celtic but a 2-0 win and Legia go through? Of course they would. So it's not the punishment they have an issue with. It's the fact it puts them out on away goals. Tough. fecking. Titty.
Administrative errors are normally just that. This wasn't even that so much as it was just sheer incompetence and not understanding the rules.
It's harsh on them, no doubt, but rules are rules. Rant over.
Yeah, it is basically it. They could for example write a law that says that the game is considered a walkover if a club puts incorrect birth date of their player in match day protocol and you messed up someone's date by a year, are you still going to say rules are rules when someone breaks it or are you going to say that the punishment is too harsh for the offense? Failing to register Bereszynski for St Patricks was bad but they did not benefit from that at all, they actually had left his spot open so it was clear they were not replacing him. Blatant misunderstanding of rules, awful administration but that is all it was, it did not change a zilch in the context of actual football.Completely with Sarni here - ludicrous decision. Rules are rules and you have to draw the line somewhere but this offence is nowhere near that line. It's like sending someone off for a foul throw.
You guys lost 6-1 ffs. And that forfeited player didnt play a role in that.
Have no idea why you are expressing anger or outrage at this, you should be embarrassed your side is going through this way.
Am I missing something here? Why has this discussion gone on so long? Legia fielded a suspended player and forfeited a game. The score of a forfeited game at all levels in football is 3-0 so Celtic were poxy lucky and progress to the next round of the champions league on away goals. This may well be slightly harsh given the circumstances here but the rules are set down and Legia are out. This open letter stuff and replay offer reminds me of Ireland's attempts to get into the World Cup after the Henry handball a few years back. Why don't legia ask to me the substitute team in the group stages should another team pull out. It all gets a bit embarrassing after a while.
Article 24: Judge sitting alone
1 The chairman of the Control and Disciplinary Body, one of its vice-chairmen or one of its members acting as ad hoc chairman may take a decision as a judge sitting alone if the sanction is limited to a warning, a reprimand, a fine of up to €8,000, a player suspension or suspension from carrying out a function for up to two matches, as well as in urgent cases.
I've already said it's embarrassing to get through like that. Doesn't mean I'm not desperate for another crack at Champions League football!
I'm angry at them appealing this because of the absurdity of it.
They admitted they broke the rules. A rule that's very clear in it's punishment if breached. Yet they appeal anyway simply because the consequences of the hugely standard and basic punishment puts them out on away goals. That should be of absolutely no concern to UEFA.
Think about it this way... say they won the first leg 7-0 and then forfeited the second leg 3-0. Would you, Sarni, Legia or anyone else think it was harsh? We all know the answer to that one.
You have to look at what sort of crime is commited and fit the punishment to the crime. For failing to register a player for two games in a preliminary round then putting him in the squad for another game because you honestly think he is not suspended anymore you are basically out of the competition. It's like putting you in jail because you did not fill some paperwork at customs while returning from a foreign country because you thought you did not have to if you were not importing anything.
As for the bolded part, yet another ridiculous exaggeration. You are basically trying to tell that every breaking of a rules is the same. You are telling me that forgetting to submit your tax documents in time because you messed up deadline and thought it was on Monday not Friday is the same as murdering the whole family.
Good for you if you reckon it wasn't meaningless and the extent of punishment was fitting, we see football differently and won't agree on anything here. If Legia had fielded a player who was sent off in the previous game because they forgot or did it deliberately, I would not be discussing it. It was an honest mistake by a single person because she were foolish enough not to understand the rules, no one got hurt, they did not do it for their benefit because there was absolutely NOTHING to be gained from that. Obviously they deserved to be punished but the fact that UEFA had left no space for any other punishment bar the heaviest of them is ridiculous. You can argue with rules, I don't think that everything that is written as law makes complete sense both in football and in real life and in this instance, at least for me, it clearly doesn't because of how it is formulated.
Right we will not agree on the fact that football rules are there for a reason and have punishments in place if they are broken. Now for the bolded parts. What does football have to do with customs? If I brought a vegetable into Australia that is not indigenous to the country it could damage that eco system. That veg is taken from me and I am fined according to their law, honest mistake or not.
Point out where I mention taxes? Stop placing words in my mouth. I never made an outside of football reference. And yes if I don't submit tax returns on time thats my fault and I would be punished accordingly. Whats your point? Breaking the rules and getting caught you are punished by the law governing these rules. Legia are being punished by a rule governing registration not, for example, bribing or match fixing. The punishment would be different as its a different rule
No one got hurt? Not yet yes but she has got death threats and has had to leave the city. Her honest mistake is being treated very badly by the fans and yet they claim it to be a minor rule breaking. In the end they got caught, UEFA will dish out the punishment they see fit and this whole episode will ensure no other club is as ignorant and stupid to be so relaxed with the rules. Those rules are there for all
a rule that had zero impact on the end result and it wasn't there intention to cheat but rather a mistake.
ofcourse they will appeal, its a joke that they are being punished for this.
I laid out a comparison that shows how daft it is to punish a club to this extent for such a small error. You wouldn't get a death penalty for bringing that vegetable, you wouldn't get a life sentence for submitting tax declaration too late - that's my point, the punishment here is way beyond reason. No one in this thread has ever said that Legia should not be punished at all, of course they should - not to such extent though. To let a team that just lost 6-1 in the tie back into the competition because your opposition messed up paperwork is silly.
They didn't let us back into the competition at all. Our away goal did that.
It's a joke they're being punished for fielding a suspended player? Therein lies the issue. Being out of the CL isn't their punishment!
Yes, the extent of the punishment is a joke. There should be a solid ground for verifying on the pitch scoreline for me and putting a player out there for 3 minutes because you wrongly but honestly think he's eligible should never cancel the actual outcome of the football game. A fine for failing to register your player for the previous round because you thought you didn't have to would be absolutely enough.
The extent of the punishment isn't a joke. The extent of the punishment is absolutely standard in football.
Would you or Legia be outraged at a 3-0 loss if you'd won the first leg 7-0? Of course not. Once again. It's not the punishment you have an issue with, it's the consequence, which, to be perfectly honest, is tough luck.
You're changing your tune somehow, a few days ago you did admit the punishment was harsh. Unless you've simply joined the camp 'rules are rules and we can never point out obvious flaws in them' I'm a bit puzzled. Even if it's standard punishment going strictly by the rules it's still a vastly exaggerated punishment that should never occur under current circumstances. They should (and probably will) loosen the rules on that because of what happened here.
It's a joke they're being punished for fielding a suspended player? Therein lies the issue. Being out of the CL isn't their punishment!
When did that suspended player join the action? If only he hadnt played, you guys would have overturned a five goal deficit in five minutes. I see your point now, you guys were hard done.
All right, now you've won your progress on the pitch then. Congrats for the great work of scoring a single goal in a 6-1 loss.
I think it's harsh for the players who clearly deserve to be in the next round. I've always said that. I don't think it's harsh that they have to forfeit a match in which they fielded a suspended player. I think that's standard.
You mention the Legia player who's experienced this before. That match finished 1-1 but Vaslui were then awarded a 3-0 win because the other team fielded a suspended player. There's another precedent. How the f*ck can that goalkeeper complain about the decision from UEFA when he's benefited from the exact same decision in the past for the exact same breach of the rules![]()
fixed.
When did that suspended player join the action? If only he hadnt played, you guys would have overturned a five goal deficit in five minutes. I see your point now, you guys were hard done.
Yep but 2-0 never happened because Legia cheated.
Does it matter when he joined the action? Say he'd scored (a goal that would've been irrelevant, admittedly) would it still be harsh to punish them for fielding him? Would the arguments then be "ah, well it was 6-1 on agg at the time so what difference did it make?" A rule was breached and they were handed the exact same punishment that every other club has been handed ffs.
Does it matter when he joined the action? Say he'd scored (a goal that would've been irrelevant, admittedly) would it still be harsh to punish them for fielding him? Would the arguments then be "ah, well it was 6-1 on agg at the time so what difference did it make?" A rule was breached and they were handed the exact same punishment that every other club has been handed ffs.
No one's saying they cheated. I even admitted that.
If we're getting pedantic though, then I'll join in. They did cheat in Warsaw. The diving from them was outrageous yet the referee bought it. 6-1's a freak result too. We played over half of the game in Poland with 10 men, you had two penalties in that game and yet, through all of that, it was only 2-1 with 5 minutes left. That's how great Legia are. 2-0 in Edinburgh we were chasing the game (that's what happens when you need to win 3-0, you leave space to be exploited through your risks). No doubt about it, Legia were the better team, but the moral high ground and smugness emanating from Poland is becoming a bit much. Their last "#LetFootballWin" campaign is particularly embarrassing. Were they all about fair play and football when they were cheating and conning the ref in Poland? Were they f*ck.
Well, if he'd come on at 2-2 and scored a winner the punishment would obviously be fair. If they fielded him knowing well he's suspended because the suspension had been handed out in the previous game, then even at 6-1 I'd probably also understand. As things stand neither of these arguments is valid for this case.
So, you think the scoreline should be taken into consideration for a breach of the rules? How is that fair on teams in the past who've had the exact same punishment handed down to them?
How the feck have they cheated in Poland? Both penalties were spot on and you had a player rightly dismissed for a foul when our player was breaking 1 on 1, Legia dominated the whole game even predecessing red card and created numerous chances only failed to take most of them. 4-1 was a very fair scoreline that reflected the flow of the game, Celtic barely played football.
Yes, it should. Circumstances of crime are always taken into consideration in real life and should also be considered in football. The other part of the rule is completely fair and leaves space for that which is why Debrecen were rightly let off for fielding Mate.
If teams in the past had the same punishment handed down to them under exact same circumstances I think it was unfair on them as well. Obviously past cannot be changed but that does not influence how I view things now. People used to be killed because of their religion - do you think it's unfair on people already murdered that we don't do that anymore?
The red card was fair. The penalties, I disagree with. My point about the red card is we played with less men than Legia for over half of the match and were still only losing 2-1 with 5 minutes to go.
The match over both legs ended in a disaster for us because our manager kept attacking and leaving spaces even when losing 2-1 with 10 men away from home (a great result if you shut up and shop and accept it!) That much is undeniable. Come back to Celtic Park (not Murrayfield) for a play-off if they wish. The scoreline won't be anywhere near what it was. I only bring up the first match because of his moral high ground Legia are taking over Celtic when we've done absolutely nothing wrong. Their issue should be with UEFA yet they're writing us open letters and bringing up our legends of the past who'd be disgusted by what we've done etc etc.
Were they about fair play and "letting football win" when they were deemed to have been fixing matches in the early 1990's?
The only thing I think is that it's absolutely crazy to be comparing this to murder's and real life courtrooms.
For some crimes you'll get a different sentence than someone else for the same crime IRL. A lot of that is down to your past record etc etc. It's not the same in football. The rules are there in black and white and it's clear what the punishment is from the start.
All right, people in the past were jailed for selling alcohol. The law has changed, is it unfair on people from the past not to jail people for the same thing now? Laws change, courts constantly create precedences, we're living in a dynamic environment and these things change. By 2005 rules Chelsea should not enter CL in 2012-13.
Again, I think it's crazy comparing such things to football. Law's may change, you're correct, but this UEFA law hasn't. For as long as I've known football it's always been a 3-0 win in a forfeit. Everyone except Legia seems to know and accept this.