Yeah I imagine if this happened in Real Madrid v Sarajevo play off qualifier UEFA would not have much problem bailing Real out like they did not have a problem admitting their rules were spectacularly stupid when they couldn't allow Liverpool to enter CL in 2005. This doesn't mean a thing though because strictly by rules they were right to send Legia packing from CL.
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Yeah I imagine if this happened in Real Madrid v Sarajevo play off qualifier UEFA would not have much problem bailing Real out like they did not have a problem admitting their rules were spectacularly stupid when they couldn't allow Liverpool to enter CL in 2005. This doesn't mean a thing though because strictly by rules they were right to send Legia packing from CL.
That was the FA's fault wasn't it? Seem to remember the Spanish league, for example, had the rules in place that top four qualified for CL, with a Cl winning team finishing outside of the top four still grabbing the fourth spot. Our FA just had a flat top four qualify rule and hadn't planned for that anomaly.
All the clubs know the rules for this prior to entry into this competition. They are to blame so if they want to kick up a fuss it should be internal and the questions should be how did we let this happen and stop it happening again and not how can folk now bail us out after we made a mess of things.
Since I know you are Liverpool fan - were you happy not to enter CL in 2005 before UEFA bailed you out because rules are rules?
I would say they'd have a huge problem there if they readmitted Real but I would also say that Real would likely buy off Sarajevo's silence in that one. Legia could have gone down that route too but I dont think they have the money.
To be honest I thought it was a bit cringey going cap in hand to UEFA to ask for admitance because we couldn't finish high enough in the league. I think the champions league should be for the champions of their respective leagues only but then I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. I must reiterate though that liverpool didnt break any rules in that case and there was no precedence for what happened and as Jippy says the FA should have had something in place to either say yay or nay to liverpool in the circumstances. Do you think liverpool were treated fairly in the case you mention or were you against their inclusion?
Well they did not fulfil a requirement to play in CL, likewise Legia did not fulfil requirement for their player to serve suspension.
I was for their inclusion after consideration.
For me it's a completely different case. Legia do fullfill all requirements to play in the champions league they fielded a suspsended player in a game which forfieted that one game on a scoreline of 3-0. This resulted in their elimination on away goals. Liverpool didnt qualify outright for the champions league by the rules of the FA but UEFA wrote in a rule to state that the Champions of Europe can compete in the champions league. I'm sure liverpool tried to pressure UEFA into doing this too but it was also in their interests to have the champions defend their crown and all that media stuff.
Do you think that because liverpool are bigger than legia that they were treated differently? For me they are completely different situations.
Yes, I reckon a big club in similar position would not be punished to the same extent and UEFA would make an exception for them - it is even in their rules that they can hand out a different punishment to the walkover because they can alter a punishment for any offence, it's not like they did not have a choice. Likewise I think if Legia had been playing Maribor, Aktobe or BATE instead of Celtic there would be no case at all too. It's obvious that it's a completely different case for you because it concerns Liverpool that you care about and not some random side that is neutral to you.
City and PSG broke FFP which is far bigger offence than failing to register your player because you did not think you had to. They were let off with fines and restrictions but not kicked out of the competition like they promised before. Now watch some Romanian or Bulgarian side kicked out because they did not comply within the next 3-4 years.
Such rage and it didn't even involve your club
From that I can only assume you come from the same backwards little country that I do. I don't know who's been more gutted through all this. The Polish media that Legia are out or the Scottish media that Celtic are in. Like Sarni said, everyone in Poland is behind Legia. Up here everybody was wanking themselves into a frenzy at the prospect of Legia being reinstated and not hesitating to get the boot stuck into Celtic despite us doing nothing wrong. Amazing how attitudes differ.
This thread will never die
No Sarni it's a completely different case. If liverpool fielded a suspended player in the Champions League final and forfeited the competition then I could have no complaints with UEFA.
They did not deliberately field a suspended player.
I never said they did but deliberate or not it brings the same penalty.
So because Legia accidentally played a suspended player they should be let off. Ireland were one up on the night in extra time but you seem to feel no sympathy for em even though it was just 17 minutes from penalties. So when its deliberate your happy to let the little guys get screwed through no fault of their own but when the little guy makes a stupid mistake in Legia case then they should be let off. Wheres the consistency there?
Whats this got to do with Celtic? They benefited just because they were lucky enough to be drawn against Legia why blame them?
Can't believe they're taking this to CAS. They don't even have a case FFS. UEFA followed the rules and their punishment was standard and legal. Legia are an embarrassment now.
Here's their line of thinking:
So because they played well on the pitch the punishment should be lessened?
Statement from CAS:
UEFA decision be set aside and all sanctions annulled? They're serious too
Here's their line of thinking:
So because they played well on the pitch the punishment should be lessened?
Statement from CAS:
UEFA decision be set aside and all sanctions annulled? They're serious too
CAS did well yesterday, maybe they'll pleasantly surprise us once again.
Why sympathy for Ireland? They lost the tie 2-1. Usually when you lose the tie you go out (unless you are Celtic in which case you will probably still go through). Rules are rules, when the ball crosses the line it's a goal and when the referee does not deem something to be an offence it is a legitimate goal - France scored a legitimate goal and qualified.
But setting this aside the difference for me is Legia actually did win on the pitch in a fair manner and by a large margin. Ireland were drawing when a referee error happened (although you do insist on using rules and going by rules there was no error).
According to some sources they lobbied for the walkover straight after game. These sources might be wrong (probably are) but in case there is some truth in it I would rather avoid them.
Can't believe they're taking this to CAS. They don't even have a case FFS. UEFA followed the rules and their punishment was standard and legal. Legia are an embarrassment now.
Here's their line of thinking:
So because they played well on the pitch the punishment should be lessened?
Statement from CAS:
UEFA decision be set aside and all sanctions annulled? They're serious too
Why the feck wouldn't they? They potentially lost millions because UEFA decided to hand out the biggest possible punishment to them for a silly but honest mistake. Every single club in the world would appeal as far as possible.
Ah ya it was tough luck on Ireland. We got screwed by an error by the ref. I like how your so hypocritical in that deliberate cheating is ok as long as its on pitch but being so stupid that you don't check the paperwork should be forgiven. We got screwed by a refs mistake who had to make a decision right there and then sadly he didn't spot it and we went out. Nothing can be done.
In Legias case they could have checked, rechecked, rang UEFA and asked whether his suspension has been served. They didn't, poor them. But hey as Ireland were only drawing the tie why not look at it as Legia would not win the champions league anyway so what the problem? Of course it don't work that way. I feel more sympathy for Ireland because the mistake was out of our hands. Legia caused their own mess and thats the end of the story
UEFA handed out the standard punishment. They lost millions because they were ignorant to the rules, not because of UEFA.
Well it was in your hands. You could have prevented the goal even after handball. You could have got second goal.
And to be completely serious I thought that situation should have led to FIFA finally implementing video replays. I also think that deliberate cheating like this should be punished very severely.
I feel we are going in circles, let's leave it here. You think it's a fair punishment, fair enough - I don't.
Surely it was less in our hands than in Legias case. As it was there mistake. I don't think you recall the goal or may not have seen it but it was impossible to stop once it had taken place. Also video replays will be so hard to implement unless its like the managers are given one call per half or something like that. Very hard to do
You only think it's an unfair punishment because of the consequences of the punishment and not the legality of the actual punishment itself and the consequences are only so because of an away goal Celtic scored in Poland, not as a result of anything UEFA have sanctioned upon Legia.
No, I think it is unfair because verifying on the pitch scoreline for an administrative error is daft.
You bringing the away goal into equation for the millionth time almost makes me think that you somehow believe Celtic have earned their progress.
It is the entire football club that qualifies or does not though, not just the team. A club could have one of the best teams in europe but if said clubs stadium does not meet uefas requirements then that team can't compete. If the clubs administrative arm can't fill out their forms correctly then they have failed, the team cannot compete and therefore the clubs administration have failed the team. Legias team walloped Celtic but Celtic the club defeated Legia the club according to Uefas rules. Fergie always nutured a culture of inclusivity for all staff at Utd basically saying that everyone was pulling together so that the team could achieve for the glory of the club as a whole, because he realised that the team is only one part of the club. Legia are having to learn that the hard way.
lol
Becoming very childish now...
You made an amateur mistake Legia, there are consequences, deal with it!
At first I felt very sorry for them, but after all these responses from them, I'm glad they are out.
I think the CAS will rule in Legia's favour.
The player in question, who only played 4 minutes of a match already over, should have been allowed to play, but for an earlier admin error.
Now if there is a single badly translated line anywhere in UEFA's regulations, any reason why they might have made that mistake, then the punishment is too harsh. Even if not, the punishment might already be too harsh. Why a 3-0 loss (apart from that it's standard). Why not end the game when the player came on the field? CAS's ruling may not be the same as UEFA's.
Basically... sorry Celtic, but I dont think you'r playing any more Champions League football this year.
The player in question, who only played 4 minutes of a match already over, should have been allowed to play, but for an earlier admin error.
Now if there is a single badly translated line anywhere in UEFA's regulations, any reason why they might have made that mistake, then the punishment is too harsh. Even if not, the punishment might already be too harsh. Why a 3-0 loss (apart from that it's standard). Why not end the game when the player came on the field? CAS's ruling may not be the same as UEFA's.
Basically... sorry Celtic, but I dont think you'r playing any more Champions League football this year.
Yeah, and from their point of view the punishment doesnt fit the crime. So they are taking it to the CAS, which is their right, who may or may not agree with them, as is their right.
Basically, if, and it's a big if, Celtic get kicked out, then CELTIC have absolutely 100% nothing to complain about.
Becoming very childish now...
That is Maribor taking a piss, not Legia.
This won't be turned over by CAS, the only error made here is by Legia admin. Extremely harsh on the Legia players and fans but Celtic are blameless and anybody aiming their ire at them are misguided.
And this is silly, football should be played on the pitch. You don't punish players for administration's slight error in that manner.
To say that Celtic defeated Legia and deserved their progress in any way is ridiculous. Legia defeated themselves there. As I have said, I would have less of a problem here if Legia were simply disqualified with one team drawn against them in the next round being given a bye to the next round.
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I don't care if they throw Celtic out, Celtic have a very weak team and they deserve to be out, it's just those "let's play one more game to decide who will go through" and all other responses from the Legia and their fans that is annoying me, like UEFA would approve that even if Celtic would have agreed. And all this antagonizing of Celtic like they were the ones who broke the rule and made the decision.
Aye, it's not Celtic's fault. I said the same here:
You cannot have a sliding scale for errors, where do you draw the line for serious error or slight error, they made a terrible terrible mistake and they are going to have to live with it.
Why not? We do it for most things in life.
Sorry should have said administrative errors, the form is either filled in correctly or it is not.
They forgot/didnt realise they had to put down an illegible player's name on a squad sheet.
Seriously, it's going to get overturned.
I don't know why you are so sure. Nobody else seems to think so.Rules have been broken, the relevant sanctions have been applied. CAS are unlikely to tell uefa that their rules are crap and should be ignored. As it happens on a footballing front I would not be unhappy at all if Legia were reinstated, I am all for the best team going through, I just can't see how it can happen, uefa would be opening up a massive can of worms if they let Legia back in.