Central midfield this season...

ralphie88 said:
Bollocks is it.

This may be news to you, but we are top with a game in hand and a relatively easy run in, we are into the Semi Finals of the FA Cup, we are in the Quarter Finals of the Champions League and we also won the League Cup.
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feck me did I say otherwise ?? By your logic it's as if we're not missing any of our best RBs (for instance) just because "we are into the Semi Finals of the FA Cup, we are in the Quarter Finals of the Champions League and we also won the League Cup."

Mozza said:
It's crazy that you believe that, he was almost always rubbish in central midfield
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You're jumping at my throat when I didn't even mention that it was in CM where we missed him...........
 
kouroux said:
feck me did I say otherwise ?? By your logic it's as if we're not missing any of our best RBs (for instance) just because "we are into the Semi Finals of the FA Cup, we are in the Quarter Finals of the Champions League and we also won the League Cup."
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Not quite, but I'd be getting things out of proportion if I said "It's crazy how we're missing Gary Neville. I would never have thought of it but it is the truth."
 
ralphie88 said:
Not quite, but I'd be getting things out of proportion if I said "It's crazy how we're missing Gary Neville. I would never have thought of it but it is the truth."
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I miss Gary Neville.

I reckon he'll start against Villa and I'm hoping he'll remind us what we've been missing.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
This is one of those questions which make me wish Ferguson had a better relationship with the press - I'd love to see him sit down for half an hour and outline how he sees Anderson's future at the club. I've literally no idea if Ferguson even sees a future for Anderson at the club, let alone in which position. He's certainly been far short of where I expected him to be this season - he is one player who should really have expected to benefit from Hargreaves absence yet he's not grasped the opportunity at all...
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Can't agree with much of that.

Well it certainly would be nice to know more about what Ferguson thinks about our players but the fact that he lets Anderson play against Liverpool should be prove enough for you that he thinks that he has a future here.

Also several quotes from him praising Anderson and he certainly wouldnt put him on the bench almost every game if he doesnt believe that.

He had actually pretty good games this season, but that's a matter of opinion and whether Hargreaves' absence could have been a benefit for him or not is disussable.
 
I don't think there is any reason to be pessimistic about Anderson. We're playing the long game with him, and rightly so. He is still really young for a central midfielder and it takes time.

The thing he gets most criticism for is his positional sense, but thats by far the most difficult thing about being a central midfielder. It'll come with experience.

The key thing is that he has literally everything in his locker. I don't include his wayward shooting because I really don't think its important. He has the potential to be our new Roy Keane, and that is the bar we should be setting for him, and he should be setting himself.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's looked more of a goal threat than our alternative central midfielders, that's for sure. Hence, he's scored more goals than any of them.
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Pogue I agree with you on this. Fletcher really could have been on double what he has managed this season, he has missed some really good chances(three sitters against Celtic, Blackburn and Derby in the cup come to mind) because he gets in the box and makes late runs for crosses and through balls. He is the only midfielder who regularly makes those types of runs into the box to get openings. I don't think Fletcher's finishing is particilarly good on the ground but he is a decent header of the ball. However, pointing to a flaw in this respect misses the point. He is more of an attacking threat in terms of scoring goals than the rest of the central players because he gets into the positions to get chances.

Carrick is not much of a goal threat in terms of goals scored but is still a creative threat due to his passing. Scholes has completely changed his game and very rarely ventures into the box anymore and his tendency to shoot long range is alot less than it used to be. Pointing to the fact that he has a couple of goals and this makes him not much less of a goal threat is misleading IMO, as lot depends on putting yourself into the position to get chances and he simply does not does this anymore. Anderson's lack of goal threat is well documented, it is something I still think he can resolve for the future.

That just leaves us with Giggs who I don't think has modified his game to the same extent as Scholes has in terms of goal threat. Giggs still is essentially an attacking player who generally gets in more threatening positions than Scholes. Still much more of a creator than a taker of goals nowadays.
 
ralphie88 said:
Bollocks is it.

This may be news to you, but we are top with a game in hand and a relatively easy run in, we are into the Semi Finals of the FA Cup, we are in the Quarter Finals of the Champions League and we also won the League Cup.
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Personally I think with Hargreaves in midfield at the top of his game, we'd have had a lot less nervy wins. In turn this would have meant that our younger players (particularly Nani and Anderson) would have had more cameo appearances throughout the season, giving them more valuable experience in the premiership and making Ferguson less reluctant to start them on occasion.

Granted results wise we have nothing that we can really complain about but Scholes and Giggs are in there twilight years and if we can't phase them out without spending big in the transfer market I'll be slightly disappointed.
 
Eto'odinho said:
Fletcher just like Hargreaves provide the energy (the legs) and tactical discipline which enables the likes of Carrick (no energy or legs) and Anderson (no tactical discipline) to do what they do best. Giggs has both energy and discipline but he can be a bit hit and miss as he is not a natural central midfielder.
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To be fair i think Carrick has good stamina levels, not in the same bracket as Fletcher or Park but these two could probably win medals in the Olympic marathon if they were long distance runners. Scholes is the player who has a problem with stamina(i personally think much of his bad tackling is down to this as hes not good at jockeying players the way the likes of Fletcher, Hargreaves, Carrick do, witness examples such as his foul on Palacios on the last day of the league season or in Rome two years ago when he got sent off) and even had this problem in his 20s. He was helped then because not only having Keane alongside him but Beckham had marvelous stamina and could tuck into central midfield a fair bit and Giggs of course did plenty of work as well. Whereas now somebody like Ronaldo (and to a lesser extent someone like Nani if he is playing)doesn't track back much.Its why it didn't help his cause when the team against Blackburn had all 4 of Ronaldo, Nani, Scholes and Berbatov in it. I personally think that a midfield of Carrick and Fletcher in the middle, with Park and Ronaldo wide with Rooney and either Berbatov or Tevez up front is our best bet for a big game, it has a good all round balance.Of course i think that players like Giggs, Anderson, Scholes, Nani etc should get their share of the action and there will always be injuries, suspensions. Players like Fletcher and Park aren't the most gifted but they make the game easier for people like Ronaldo with the work they do.

Of course Scholes is an unbelievably gifted footballer with his passing, vision, shooting etc. I still think he has a clear part to play but he tends to do better against teams who completely park the bus or coming on as a sub at 0-0 when the opposition are difficult to break down, or in a 3 man central midfield (e.g. Liverpool at OT last season).I think Fergie will have a certain amount of loyalty to him, just as he will to Giggs and Gary Neville and previously to the likes of Robson and Keane because of what they have done for the club whereas players who have only been at the club a few years may not be given those privileges.
 
Bump.

With Berbatov conveniently out of the picture throughout a run of horrific performances, it's safe to say that we really do need to look elsewhere for the factors behind a slight decline on last season's performance levels.

We're far too reliant on Carrick and Fletcher IMO. Carrick is having a major dip in form and Fletcher is a victim of his own versatility, getting shunted out wide to compensate for Nani's incompetence.

Last season we could rely on Hargreaves (when fit) Scholes and Anderson to share the load. Hargreaves is out for the season, Scholes is a shadow of his former self (apart from one or two vintage displays all season) and Anderson has a nasty dose of second seasonitis.

If it wasn't for Giggs' sensational efforts in central midfield this season could have turned ugly some time ago and - without finding some way to give Fletcher and Carrick a decent break - I'm seriously concerned about the rest of the season.

No idea what the solution is though.

Play Gibson?

Stick with Scholes despite poor performances?

Rush Anderson back from injury?

Feck knows. It's a bit of a worry though and no mistake.
 
Have Fletcher and Giggs started as a CM pairing since their fantastic performance against Chelsea?

Obviously we can't start Giggs ever week but with Carrick being so off form their basically the only two players in the whole squad I would feel comfortable starting in CM for the second leg now.

Imo rest them both against Sunderland and play Scholes - Carrick and hope for the best and then go with a rested Fletcher - Giggs for Porto.
 
Gibson should be in the team, at least on the bench.

He is not bad and can score. Can tackle too. Obviously not a starter but can give some other players rest in the last 20-25 minutes.
 
regarding OP: dunno. The mf seems to have lost it's focus from defending the defence and snatching a winner, (which was maybe papering over the cracks for a few months) to a situation where, having lost the clean sheet record have just lost direction. Not inventive enough to create the goals of last season - although the movement up top has to carry some of the blame there. Ronaldo has not been given the freedom that he had last year (maybe in preparation for departure???) and the general lack of movement upfront not giving them much to focus on. Having said that, Carrick apart, we don't really have a regular, real top-notch mf player. Certainly not going forward. Scholes is a shadow of his old self, Giggs plays intermittantly. Good wingers can compensate but we don't really have any of them either. Ron isn't really a winger, Park is a jack of all trades and Nani seems to have faded altogether. We're lacking either genuine width and/or genuine mf creativity. We are right now, anyway.
 
I'd like to see Anderson get a run in the team when he's fit, I know he hasn't performed very well this season but he's obviously got ability and the ability to get about the pitch. I realise that might not happen due to the magnitude of the upcoming games as we near the end of the season, its what I'd like to see though.

One of the reasons we've suffered this year in my opinion in midfield is the constant changing of personal to accommodate Giggs and Scholes. Maybe it's time to try use a settled team from now on and try get some continuity.
 
agree with a bit of continuity but I'm not sure Anderson is it either. H'es flattered to deceive a bit and although seems to have the right moves on the ball and not bad defending either, he often runs out of ideas at the crucial point. Probably not the right time to chuck him back in as a long term answer. In the long term he still has it to do.
 
Denis' cuff said:
agree with a bit of continuity but I'm not sure Anderson is it either. H'es flattered to deceive a bit and although seems to have the right moves on the ball and not bad defending either, he often runs out of ideas at the crucial point. Probably not the right time to chuck him back in as a long term answer. In the long term he still has it to do.
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I understand what your saying, and you're maybe right that now isn't the best time. Although judging by some of the player performances in recent weeks he can't do much worse.

I most certainly like to see it happen next season though if he doesn't get the nod for the rest of this season.
 
Carricks poor form i think is key. He has been so important (and under rated) in the clubs revival, combine his poor form with scholes not playing well, and our midfield is going to struggle.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Carricks poor form i think is key. He has been so important (and under rated) in the clubs revival, combine his poor form with scholes not playing well, and our midfield is going to struggle.
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When you play with a midfield two most of the time, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the performances of your central midfielders will have a bearing on how the rest of the team plays. Carrick has always been Carrick, a steady passer of the ball in midfield who struggles when the going gets tough. In the 2006/07 season, the imperious form displayed by Scholes was more telling than Carrick's contribution and last season, the combination of a more tactically diverse team and the rarity with which we played with a midfield two helped mask his deficiencies.

His career best game was against Inter at the San Siro in March and that came when he had two other players playing in midfield with him.
 
Thought I would give this thread a bump in time for the forthcoming season. This is the one area that we seriously lack any sort of consistently good performers. I am genuinely worried about our central midfield.
 
Eto'odinho said:
Thought I would give this thread a bump in time for the forthcoming season. This is the one area that we seriously lack any sort of consistently good performers. I am genuinely worried about our central midfield.
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Carrick can do the job alongside Fletcher/Hargreaves. It just means that we won't score many goals from midfield, or specifically, that part of midfield.
 
kouroux said:
I'm not worried about the midfielders we have, I'm more worried about their lack of goals
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Kouroux, I am not worried about goals from central midfield because thats all secondary. They are there first and foremost to provide the link between the defence and attack. Winning possession back, keeping it and creating opportunities for the forwards is what should be of utmost importance.


Younited.7 said:
Carrick can do the job alongside Fletcher/Hargreaves. It just means that we won't score many goals from midfield, or specifically, that part of midfield.
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No he can't (atleast against decent opposition). It frustrates me when I fail to see our midfield dictate play against decent opposition. This puts additional defensive responsibilities on some of the forwards often Rooney and to an extent Berbatov last season. If the midfield can do its job properly then we wouldn't have to subjected to scenes of Rooney or Berbatov playing inside our own half every now and then
 
Eto'odinho said:
Kouroux, I am not worried about goals from central midfield because thats all secondary. They are there first and foremost to provide the link between the defence and attack. Winning possession back, keeping it and creating opportunities for the forwards is what should be of utmost importance.
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Sorry I wasn't really specific.I meant that I'm worried about the lack of creativity in terms of goalscoring chances (whether the midfielders score them or not).If it comes to protecting the defense it's fine but all around creativity not so exciting
 
Carrick/Fletcher/Anderson on the 'big stage', with Fletcher/Carrick being our main partnership in the Premier League. Obviously Fergie is going to rotate heavily, so Giggs, Scholes, Anderson and Gibson will get many starts/games as well. I'm not that worried at all.
 
We did exceptionally well last year without a settled midfield. But yeah, I'd prefer if we settle with Fletcher/Carrick as well. But I don't think it's going to happen, Fergie will rotate.
 
I'm not worried about the midfield. They're good enough, if they weren't, we wouldn't have been so successful the last few seasons. Right now we're missing the 06/07 Scholes, but IMO last two seasons showed we can cope without someone like him in midfield. Anderson can provide the creativity, but he's not really consistent at that he does yet.. just need another season or two, and he would be a regular for us there IMO. For now, Fletcher-Carrick is fine.
 
Eto'odinho said:
When you play with a midfield two most of the time, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the performances of your central midfielders will have a bearing on how the rest of the team plays. Carrick has always been Carrick, a steady passer of the ball in midfield who struggles when the going gets tough. In the 2006/07 season, the imperious form displayed by Scholes was more telling than Carrick's contribution and last season, the combination of a more tactically diverse team and the rarity with which we played with a midfield two helped mask his deficiencies.

His career best game was against Inter at the San Siro in March and that came when he had two other players playing in midfield with him.
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I think you are doing Carrick a disservice, when fit he is my first midfielder on the teamsheet for me. Just because he played well with 2 other centre mids doesnt mean he isnt good without.
 
Anduin said:
We did exceptionally well last year without a settled midfield. But yeah, I'd prefer if we settle with Fletcher/Carrick as well. But I don't think it's going to happen, Fergie will rotate.
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Last year was a one off and we generally got away without playing particularly well in many games. I worry everytime I see us play with a midfield two knowing that the midfield deficiencies will get exposed at one point or another in the game. We lack creativity and muscle in midfield. The tactical discipline and stamina of Fletcher can only get you so far but there exist instances when you need that big bruiser in midfield to stamp his authority or let the opponents learn who they are up against.

I also worry about the speed with which our supposed number one "creative" midfielder, Carrick executes his decisions. He is simply too slow for my liking.
 
Carrick for me is the only certain starter. And even this I'm not sure about in some games. He is good in fast-paced games when we have posession. But not so in slow games or when we have to chase the ball.
 
I think we're lacking a bit of personality in midfield.
 
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