David Moyes | West Ham in talks with him for managerial job

Sassy Colin said:
I can believe that some people are still, apparently, trying to defend Moyes. Why would you defend someone who, in the space of about 3 or 4 months, destroyed what SAF built up over 25 years.
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I sometimes feel like people somehow see some part of themselves in Moyes, and that's why they still strive to defend him. That's the only reason I can think of to defend someone who took us to our lowest finish in years, breaking numerous losing records along the way, insulted anyone who wasn't himself including our greatest ever manager who got him that job, all while passing himself off as this nice humble guy who wasn't responsible for anything and was being hard done by.
 
Ijazz17 said:
I know everyone hates Fellaini and some people are always too stubborn (Not suggesting you are), but he's being relied on heavily by Mourinho. That's two managers now (LvG, Mou) that have felt he has an important role to contribute in the short term goals of the team. And even though, you called Moyes's transfer dealings as inept, he did sign two players who were being trusted by the previous manager and the current one (Mata maybe not so much). So whilst he didn't get the players he wanted, the one's he signed haven't been too bad. Mata from what I read, had a better Goal Scoring ratio at United than at Chelsea. Agree that Mou's transfer dealings are yet to be fully evaluated, but as it stands, he's done average or above average so far. No doubt, it will improve for the likes of Mkhi and Pogba.
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It wasn't so much that Moyes signed bad players it was that he didn't sign the kinds of players we did need. The signings were mostly in the wrong positions and Moyes himself didn't get anywhere near the best out of Fellaini. When LVG came in our squad was really unbalanced and that was largely Moyes' fault. Worse than that, he pushed out players we should have kept on like Vidic and Evra. The club was shorn of all its leadership, from board to manager to dressing room within the space of 12 months. On the other hand, Mourinho's signings have been in positions we needed to improve and they've all done that.
 
VP89 said:
Moyes has resources, he chose not to spend. He also had RvP, Nani and Hernandez.. Who I think Mourinho would have better utilised.

If and buts though, let's just agree to disagree on the resources point. I don't think Mourinhos performances has anything to do with the money spent. If he had the Moyes squad, he'd still make us look better than Moyes ever did.
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I don't think he chose not to spend. He came in on July 1 and so did Woodward if I remember correctly. The transition seemed poorly prepared and that transfer window was probably lost because of it and due to overshooting on targets given the time window.

Put that aside, I agree that Mourinho would have been a better, more proven candidate at the time - as he is now.
 
kopviolator said:
I don't think he chose not to spend. He came in on July 1 and so did Woodward if I remember correctly. The transition seemed poorly prepared and that transfer window was probably lost because of it and due to overshooting on targets given the time window.

Put that aside, I agree that Mourinho would have been a better, more proven candidate at the time - as he is now.
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He certainly didn't overshoot. He said he "didn't want" Thiago (lol) and spent the entire window trying to get Herrera only to pay over the odds for Fellaini (who he could have gotten for a buyout clause if he acted a week or two prior).

He basically had no clue in the transfer market, which meant Ed Woodward had no clue. Woody was involved heavily with Gill during his transition, I'm sure he could wrap simple enough transfers had Moyes actually been clear in what was required. Moyes just sat on his backside and thought he'd get Bale or Neymar.
 
kopviolator said:
I don't think he chose not to spend. He came in on July 1 and so did Woodward if I remember correctly. The transition seemed poorly prepared and that transfer window was probably lost because of it and due to overshooting on targets given the time window.

Put that aside, I agree that Mourinho would have been a better, more proven candidate at the time - as he is now.
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Moyes announce our manager in May before season was over. He has enough time to think of all possible target.
 
Akshay said:
It wasn't so much that Moyes signed bad players it was that he didn't sign the kinds of players we did need. The signings were mostly in the wrong positions and Moyes himself didn't get anywhere near the best out of Fellaini. When LVG came in our squad was really unbalanced and that was largely Moyes' fault. Worse than that, he pushed out players we should have kept on like Vidic and Evra. The club was shorn of all its leadership, from board to manager to dressing room within the space of 12 months. On the other hand, Mourinho's signings have been in positions we needed to improve and they've all done that.
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That's a very valid point. Both of Moyes's buys were panic buys. I'm not sure I agree about pushing out Vidic and Evra,I think they were the right decisions at the time.

My only point was that it's not entirely ludicrous to compare Mourinho's and Moyes's transfer outings. They've both had hits (If you consider how effective Mata and Fellaini were under van Gaal and Fellaini under Mou) and Misses. Mourinho's obviously still is pending a complete evaluation.
 
Ijazz17 said:
It's a matter of fine margins imo. United were so close to knocking out Bayern in the UCL. Not saying, we would have gone onto win or that there were improvements under Moyes, there weren't and like you said he wasn't suited to the job. But the investments each manager has put into the club can't be ignored. Mourinho did infact spend 200 m + on players, only 25% of which was used by Moyes. If you look at it from a business perspective, the ROI on Mourinho's investments haven't been great. It's been ok. Next season is make or break for him. I don't find the comparisons to be silly. Yes, it can get exaggerated and extrapolated a lot which makes for pointless reading, but you get tidbits of useful information from some of these comparisons.
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I'm guessing I'm hitting a massive blank here, but did Mourinho really spend over 200m+? Or are we adding in LvG's spend (or even wages?), since Moyes, as well? I can only think of Zlatan, Pogba, Mkhi and Bailly. Unless of course I'm completely blanking out here, whilst multitasking.

edit: reading again, seems we're just adding each managers spend together?
 
Ijazz17 said:
That's a very valid point. Both of Moyes's buys were panic buys. I'm not sure I agree about pushing out Vidic and Evra,I think they were the right decisions at the time.

My only point was that it's not entirely ludicrous to compare Mourinho's and Moyes's transfer outings. They've both had hits (If you consider how effective Mata and Fellaini were under van Gaal and Fellaini under Mou) and Misses. Mourinho's obviously still is pending a complete evaluation.
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I'm not saying Vidic and Evra should have been nailed on starters, but losing both of them plus Rio and Giggs all at the same time absolutely killed our dressing room. All of those shared the captaincy amongst themselves and when LVG came in the only candidates were Rooney, RVP and Carrick, none of whom were even in contention under Sir Alex.

I measure transfer dealings by whether the manager left a better squad than he started with. In Moyes case, no. In LVG's case, no. In Mourinho's case? Like you say, too soon to tell. But I like it better this summer than last.
 
Ijazz17 said:
That's a very valid point. Both of Moyes's buys were panic buys. I'm not sure I agree about pushing out Vidic and Evra,I think they were the right decisions at the time.

My only point was that it's not entirely ludicrous to compare Mourinho's and Moyes's transfer outings. They've both had hits (If you consider how effective Mata and Fellaini were under van Gaal and Fellaini under Mou) and Misses. Mourinho's obviously still is pending a complete evaluation.
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You appear to be crediting Moyes for bringing in 2 players which he had no clue what to do with who have served us well, but only when a manager had a clue what to do with them came along. One of those players Woodward brought in anyway, probably because Moyes had no idea who to bring in.

Moyes was fecking useless, how anyone can defend him in any way whatsoever I do not know.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I can believe that some people are still, apparently, trying to defend Moyes. Why would you defend someone who, in the space of about 3 or 4 months, destroyed what SAF built up over 25 years.
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There will always be one or two, some people have this strange fascination with Moyes. I think/hope they might just be a bit gullible and they buy his whole woe is me act, and believe he has been hard done by.

The truth is he's a smug, miserable, twat, who's been found out for the bluffer that he is.
 
Big Sam has given Palace the elbow. Maybe he's on his way back to Sunderland to show Moyesy how it's done.
 
I really hope no top flight club in the major leagues is stupid enough to give this fraud a paycheck
 
lem8sh said:
True, Hughes destroyed QPR his signings in his second season were criminal.
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Hughes had decent spells at Fulham and Blackburn though.

Moyes besides Everton hasn't had one good spell. I think he's had like one good month in the three jobs he has taken over since. That was when we beat Leverkusen away and Arsenal at home.
 
Ish said:
I'm guessing I'm hitting a massive blank here, but did Mourinho really spend over 200m+? Or are we adding in LvG's spend (or even wages?), since Moyes, as well? I can only think of Zlatan, Pogba, Mkhi and Bailly. Unless of course I'm completely blanking out here, whilst multitasking.

edit: reading again, seems we're just adding each managers spend together?
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I included wages in it as well.

Akshay said:
I'm not saying Vidic and Evra should have been nailed on starters, but losing both of them plus Rio and Giggs all at the same time absolutely killed our dressing room. All of those shared the captaincy amongst themselves and when LVG came in the only candidates were Rooney, RVP and Carrick, none of whom were even in contention under Sir Alex.

I measure transfer dealings by whether the manager left a better squad than he started with. In Moyes case, no. In LVG's case, no. In Mourinho's case? Like you say, too soon to tell. But I like it better this summer than last.
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Based on your criterion for measuring transfer dealings, I have to agree with your assessment. I measure transfer dealings by how good players have been over the entirety of their career at the club, irrespective of staff change. It doesn't mean Moyes deserves credit, but doesn't mean his work (Like @Sassy Colin says, Mata was mostly a Woodward buy) should be completely disregarded either.


Sassy Colin said:
You appear to be crediting Moyes for bringing in 2 players which he had no clue what to do with who have served us well, but only when a manager had a clue what to do with them came along. One of those players Woodward brought in anyway, probably because Moyes had no idea who to bring in.

Moyes was fecking useless, how anyone can defend him in any way whatsoever I do not know.
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I am not crediting him at all. I'm just saying long term, Fellaini and Mata have been decent buys who were subsequently used by LvG and Mourinho effectively. Hypothetically, if Mourinho were to leave and someone else comes in and Pogba/Mkhi flourishes, I would consider Pogba/Mkhi a great peace of business.
 
Akshay said:
I'm not saying Vidic and Evra should have been nailed on starters, but losing both of them plus Rio and Giggs all at the same time absolutely killed our dressing room. All of those shared the captaincy amongst themselves and when LVG came in the only candidates were Rooney, RVP and Carrick, none of whom were even in contention under Sir Alex.
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That's true, but I don't think they were good enough to play too many games. They could have been retained as backroom staff, but the likes of Vidic and Evra wanted to leave to play football. It did kill our dressing room, but I think Rooney and especially Giggs stepped up very well under van Gaal.
 
Ijazz17 said:
That's true, but I don't think they were good enough to play too many games. They could have been retained as backroom staff, but the likes of Vidic and Evra wanted to leave to play football. It did kill our dressing room, but I think Rooney and especially Giggs stepped up very well under van Gaal.
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I think leadership from within the players is very different to staff. The staff can't lead by example, and they aren't there on the pitch during difficult game situations to show others how to respond. I think Vidic and Evra would have been good squad players for another season, heck Evra made it to a CL final the year after.

Ijazz17 said:
Based on your criterion for measuring transfer dealings, I have to agree with your assessment. I measure transfer dealings by how good players have been over the entirety of their career at the club, irrespective of staff change. It doesn't mean Moyes deserves credit, but doesn't mean his work (Like @Sassy Colin says, Mata was mostly a Woodward buy) should be completely disregarded either.
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Yeah, that's also a valid way of looking at it. Short term vs long term. I guess I'm pretty short term oriented right now. In the long run we're all dead anyway (said a clueless economist).
 
Akshay said:
I think leadership from within the players is very different to staff. The staff can't lead by example, and they aren't there on the pitch during difficult game situations to show others how to respond. I think Vidic and Evra would have been good squad players for another season, heck Evra made it to a CL final the year after.
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Yeah, losing Evra was a big blow. I was ok with Vidic leaving though. I still believe the players like Carrick and Rooney stepped up pretty well. The problem under van Gaal wasn't leadership for me, it was a lack of cutting edge. Martial was the only outlet who provided that.
 
Fantastic foresight to bring in Marouane. It's like a game of chess for David, always planning four moves ahead. In many ways he masterminded this Europa League victory.
 
Ijazz17 said:
It's a matter of fine margins imo. United were so close to knocking out Bayern in the UCL. Not saying, we would have gone onto win or that there were improvements under Moyes, there weren't and like you said he wasn't suited to the job. But the investments each manager has put into the club can't be ignored. Mourinho did infact spend 200 m + on players, only 25% of which was used by Moyes. If you look at it from a business perspective, the ROI on Mourinho's investments haven't been great. It's been ok. Next season is make or break for him. I don't find the comparisons to be silly. Yes, it can get exaggerated and extrapolated a lot which makes for pointless reading, but you get tidbits of useful information from some of these comparisons.
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It was not that Moyes spent very little, it was more that Moyes did not know who to spend on.
It is like heading to the supermarket with a credit card but you forgot to bring your shopping list.

Hence, I do feel that it is alright to compare these reigns based on their ability to scout players. Moyes was already informed of the job early, so he had more than 4 months to look for targets, but still ended up with a panic buy. There were strong rumors of him bringing Jagielka and Baines in to solve the problems in the defence, so sacking him at that time was correct.

If you look at what he was doing at Sunderland with former Everton and Man Utd players, I have to say that the rumors of him "Evertoning" the United squad were very likely to be true.
 
Ramshock said:
Moyesy throwing his tuppence in on our new season. Needs a slap in his dour face.

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His face at the very beginning, when the host is saying "is it weird that the season is about to begin and you don't have a job". :lol::lol::lol:
 
Globule said:
His face at the very beginning, when the host is saying "is it weird that the season is about to begin and you don't have a job". :lol::lol::lol:
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What's your problem with him? He's acting professional and I'm frankly embarrassed that we identify with the same team when you act arrogant; almost as if you could do better than him. I won't become a mod by saying this, but the level of posting was a lot higher a few years ago, nowadays everyone has a loud voice. No offense
 
Moyes didn't succeed, but I'm tired of spending my free time reading lines from people who don't have enough decency to respect him. He knows a million times more about football than 99% of the posters here
 
Absolutely clueless manager as has been seen by his record with us and thereafter.

Why are so many of you so scared to hear the truth?!
 
Sky1981 said:
Respect? For what? Name one respectable thing he did when he's with us
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He signed Fellaini who has been a valuable squad player for both of the managers we've had since him. He also signed Mata who has been very valuable. Woodward was new as well, people seem to forget that.

Anyway he did his best and I feel sorry for people who feel the need to mock him. Moyes didn't hold grudges or anything. You're inferior
 
Macern said:
Moyes didn't succeed, but I'm tired of spending my free time reading lines from people who don't have enough decency to respect him. He knows a million times more about football than 99% of the posters here
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Every single player and manager that has spent a decent time at top level (I'm counting Championship as top level) knows more about football than probably everyone in this or any other forum. Why does that automatically command respect?
 
Macern said:
He signed Fellaini who has been a valuable squad player for both of the managers we've had since him. He also signed Mata who has been very valuable. Woodward was new as well, people seem to forget that.

Anyway he did his best and I feel sorry for people who feel the need to mock him. Moyes didn't hold grudges or anything. You're inferior
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He also holds no respect for saf, sacked the whole lot of more successful and respectable coaches than he would have a gut to admit, he has no respect for united and the fans after and during his reign.

Respect is earnt my friend, he hasn't earnt mine. Hell he probably hasn't earnt everton's.
The minute he signs for united he's trying to smugly offer 30m for fellaini and baines from his former club. Respect. Lol

Edit : he didn't respect that Spanish player of his that he forgot his name, he didn't respect the spanish by pretending to speak a few words of spain on tv, and let's not forget how he disrespect sunderland by saying relegation are their level.

But somehow we have to respect him fecking up at every opportunity.
 
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Moyes is shite, but he was underqualified for our job. Its not like he was going to turn the job down. He should never have been offered it in the first place.
 
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