Everton vs. Man United

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We have no reason to lose to them, we have ages until the game so we should be fully prepared. We should be looking to get 72 points.

We should be playing for Europa. We need to close 9 points on Everton, if we beat them that's 6 and if City beat them that's 3, then they have away to Sunderland, home to palace, away to southampton and away to Hull. There is the very real chance they could drop 3 more points.

Arsenal almost certainly will most likely win 3 out of their last 5 therefore fourth place is out of the question. Their last two games could be tricky against relegation fighters and Hull City away might require them to dig deep however they will likely get 3 wins when you consider they are home to West Ham and Newcastle.

I can see Arsenal at the very least winning 3 and drawing 2 so probably finish with about 75 points. If we finish on 72 points, that would just make the feeling of losing out on top four worse. We would probably have a higher goal difference too!

On a positive if we did beat Everton, a game where we have about a week and a half to prepare for and then Norwich (home), Sunderland (home), Hull (home) and Southampton (away) then we would end the season on a 7 match winning run and also having won 10 out of our last 12 games.

If the board are in doubt; Moyes could still save his job.
 
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A win here and things could get interesting. Far stranger things have happened.
 
pocco said:
We've just played Bayern Munich twice and they didn't manage to 'knock us right back to square one'.
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We won't park the bus here though. If we'd played against Bayern like we did vs City or Liverpool we'd have been hammered. Can't really compare.
 
Blasphemy said:
We won't park the bus here though. If we'd played against Bayern like we did vs City or Liverpool we'd have been hammered. Can't really compare.
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I dislike that sitting back and counter attacking has become unfashionable in recent years due to Barcelona's rhetoric about 'pure' football being ticky tacky nonsense. If we'd played like we did against Bayern vs City or Liverpool I guarantee we wouldn't have lost 4 times against them.
 
Lu Tze said:
I dislike that sitting back and counter attacking has become unfashionable in recent years due to Barcelona's rhetoric about 'pure' football being ticky tacky nonsense. If we'd played like we did against Bayern vs City or Liverpool I guarantee we wouldn't have lost 4 times against them.
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We could easily have still lost all four.

Parking the bus almost guarantee's you don't get hammered but it doesn't do much for you in terms of winning, especially as the current United aren't even a good counter attacking side, we don't have much pace.
 
Blasphemy said:
We could easily have still lost all four.

Parking the bus almost guarantee's you don't get hammered but it doesn't do much for you in terms of winning, especially as the current United aren't even a good counter attacking side, we don't have much pace.
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If we'd played Valencia/Welbeck on the wings with Rooney/Kagawa at #9 and #10 we have ample pace in the side. We would not have lost all four. Parking the bus does plenty in terms of getting resuts, look how it's worked against the 'best sides' in the world consistently in the champions league, Bayern and Barcelona especially have fallen to it multiple times.

In any case, there is a difference between 'Parking the bus' and playing on the counter. One implies you're barely even trying to attack, the other is a tactical strategy which attempts to create space to exploit, and generally does so very well.
 
We have to win this to at least put a little pressure on the clubs above and to give indications that we're heading in the right direction ahead of next season.

I hope we approach this as an important match and pick the players who will go out and perform with that mindset.

De Gea, Mata and Kagawa must start. Smalling too. I'd pick Valencia if he can bring one of his Champions League beast mode performances, if not Januzaj. Let Nani loose on the three home matches that follow.
 
Lu Tze said:
If we'd played Valencia/Welbeck on the wings with Rooney/Kagawa at #9 and #10 we have ample pace in the side. We would not have lost all four.
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Valencia might be a quick and extremely athletic player but he so rarely puts those skills to good use anymore I don't think you can call him a good counter attacking player. He's not good at attacking in any sense based on this and last seasons form.

Parking the bus does plenty in terms of getting resuts, look how it's worked against the 'best sides' in the world consistently in the champions league, Bayern and Barcelona especially have fallen to it multiple times.
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Bayern and Barcelona still win most of the time when teams park the bus against them, they just occasionally lose to it. People have this crazy idea that parking the bus gives you a great chance of victory, it's rubbish, you usually lose doing it, it's just if you're way outmatched then you have a better chance to draw/win doing it than playing a straight up game but you're still very likely to lose.

In any case, there is a difference between 'Parking the bus' and playing on the counter. One implies you're barely even trying to attack, the other is a tactical strategy which attempts to create space to exploit, and generally does so very well.
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Mourinho's Real did the latter, against Bayern we were straight parking the bus.
 
Blasphemy said:
Bayern and Barcelona still win most of the time when teams park the bus against them, they just occasionally lose to it. People have this crazy idea that parking the bus gives you a great chance of victory, it's rubbish, you usually lose doing it, it's just if you're way outmatched then you have a better chance to draw/win doing it than playing a straight up game but you're still very likely to lose.
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You say that, but look at Barcelona's record in the CL. They've lost against Chelsea multiple times while they 'parked the bus'. They lost to Inter when it counted due to Inter 'parking the bus'. They lost to Celtic when they 'parked the bus'. Sitting deep and countering - at least against Barcelona - is a pretty effective strategy. It's only when teams actually try to play Barca/Bayern at their own game that they get hammered.

Anyway, way off topic. We shouldn't be going to Everton to park the bus. Or even play on the counter. With our fast defenders (Rafael, Jones, Smalling) fit we should be looking to press high and control the game, with Fletcher/Fellaini in front of them, and Mata/Kagawa/Welbeck/Rooney as our front 4.
 
A front four of:

Nani Mata Kagawa
----Welbeck

Rooney doesn't need to start this game.
 
Oooh, this is a tough one.......Rooney doesn't play well against Everton. Play as we had against Newcastle, unless injuries rule out players. Evra had a bad game, defensively, against Bayern. He had a part in all three goals and I would move to Buttner again.

We're away for this. I reckon 1-1 or 1-2 to us.
 
gooDevil said:
De Gea
Varela Smalling Jones Buttner
Fletcher Fellaini
Januzaj Mata Kagawa
Hernandez​
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This looks good.

Perhaps Moyes will be a bit cautious with this game trying to avoid defeat at his former club. However, in the grand scheme of things it shouldn't really matter. I hope for his sake we can get a win, it will do him a lot of good. I hope he doesn't fall into that trap of being cautious. He'll get lambasted regardless of the result.
 
---------------De Gea
Jones Smalling Vidic Evra
Valencia Carrick Fellaini Welbeck
-----------------Mata
---------------Rooney

Not a very adventurous lineup but im going to go out on a limb and say Moyes will definitely not want to lose this one.

I mean i reckon he'd take a 0-0 if offered right now.

Would be very embarrassing for him to lose this one to say the least.
 
I don't want to sound petty, but if Arsenal miss out on top four at the expense of us losing this game, so be it.

I want Europa League, but the benefits of no European football are also well established. Plus, Arsenal are expected to be one of the big players in the market and that will still be the case ahead of Everton and Spurs, it should lessen the impact of a competitor who are expected to significantly improve.
 
Glanville95 said:
I don't want to sound petty, but if Arsenal miss out on top four at the expense of us losing this game, so be it.

I want Europa League, but the benefits of no European football are also well established. Plus, Arsenal are expected to be one of the big players in the market and that will still be the case ahead of Everton and Spurs, it should lessen the impact of a competitor who are expected to significantly improve.
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The papers would be choking on their own hype if Arsenal missed 4th, after all that Ozil ass kissing when they were top of the league.
 
stevoc said:
---------------De Gea
Jones Smalling Vidic Evra
Valencia Carrick Fellaini Welbeck
-----------------Mata
---------------Rooney

Not a very adventurous lineup but im going to go out on a limb and say Moyes will definitely not want to lose this one.

I mean i reckon he'd take a 0-0 if offered right now.

Would be very embarrassing for him to lose this one to say the least.
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What is embarrassing is setting up Manchester United to be drawing against fecking Everton. He can piss right off if we get a draw in this game
 
Goodison park has proven to be trickier place at times and with Everton side in devastating form we'll have some work to do.

As long as we play our usual football we'll be fine.
 
Given the circumstances, one of Moyes toughest fixtures this season.

This one could be a real look deep in the mirror. Wonder how he will feel if we lose and the evidence is crystal clear that Everton have made huge strides WITHOUT him, whilst we have gone massively backward WITH him.
 
9 points ahead now, who were the people talking about 4th again?

United22 said:
What is embarrassing is setting up Manchester United to be drawing against fecking Everton. He can piss right off if we get a draw in this game
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We'll lose.
 
sammsky1 said:
Given the circumstances, one of Moyes toughest fixtures this season.

This one could be a real look deep in the mirror. Wonder how he will feel if we lose and the evidence is crystal clear that Everton have made huge strides WITHOUT him, whilst we have gone massively backward WITH him.
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They made huge strides with him too, if you recall
 
I'm not really sure of how Moyes will play this one. No question that if Mata/Kagawa/Janu are fit that we can really get at them. But we'll also need to be at our competative best, Everton have something to play for and we don't so if you had to guess you would think they would be right up for it and we wouldn't be.. so that's where we're going to have to do well. That means Rooney and Welbeck and the likes of Fletch have to be willing to try to get a big result and put them under tons of pressure. Games like this you wish we still had a big game midfielder to boss things

EDIT: I guess I'm trying to say there have been two sides to United the last while, one very pretty footballing side that scores lots of goals, keeps the ball well, but only seems to do it versus small fries. And then a meaner side that is resolute in defence and counters with pace and real grit, more like a Fergie side of old. Obviously what we want is a combo of both of these sides to start showing up in games like this
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I'm not really sure of how Moyes will play this one. No question that if Mata/Kagawa/Janu are fit that we can really get at them. But we'll also need to be at our competative best, Everton have something to play for and we don't so if you had to guess you would think they would be right up for it and we wouldn't be.. so that's where we're going to have to do well. That means Rooney and Welbeck and the likes of Fletch have to be willing to try to get a big result and put them under tons of pressure. Games like this you wish we still had a big game midfielder to boss things

EDIT: I guess I'm trying to say there have been two sides to United the last while, one very pretty footballing side that scores lots of goals, keeps the ball well, but only seems to do it versus small fries. And then a meaner side that is resolute in defence and counters with pace and real grit, more like a Fergie side of old. Obviously what we want is a combo of both of these sides to start showing up in games like this
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We don't have such a side. That's totally an imaginary side at the moment.

We have two sides: one at 0-0, which is "defending resolutely" as you put it, and one when we nick a goal and take the lead which "counters with pace" as you put it.
 
I will be interested to see what reception the Everton fans give Moyes. It could be anything from polite applause or downright hositily for wanting their best players.
 
Rednails said:
I will be interested to see what reception the Everton fans give Moyes. It could be anything from polite applause or downright hositily for wanting their best players.
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They're going to be extremely caustic, dude. The flip side of the maxim that everyone loves a winner is that everyone hates a loser.

See the "stuck with Moyes" chants and so on.
 
I'd go for

----------DDG------------------
Jones - Smalling - Evans - Buttner
-----Carrick----Fletcher--------
Nani-----Mata----Kagawa
-------Welbeck----------------

Give Rooney a proper rest if he's fecked his toe. Welbeck deserves a start up front. If Evra is off next season then we should be giving Buttner games to see if he's going to be good enough back up at LB long term. Smalling and Evans is potentially our best partnership and Jones is our best RB option atm.

Nani deserves a chance, even if Moyes is selling him he's going to have no value if he's been sat on the bench all season.

No doubt that Valencia, Fellaini and Rooney will all start though.
 
Rednails said:
I will be interested to see what reception the Everton fans give Moyes. It could be anything from polite applause or downright hositily for wanting their best players.
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It won't be pretty. I was at OT when we played them and after the goal they gave him nothing but stick. It was quite embarrassing for Moyes tbh.
 
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