Everton vs. Man United

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--------------De Gea

Rafael------Jones----Vidic------Buttner

------------Carrick----Fletcher

------Januzaj------Mata---------Kagawa

-----------------Hernandez
 
It's weird because this seems like a big game, for Moyes. Do people think it will for our players? Technically we have nothing to play for. Even keeping the momentum going so it carries over for the CL games can't be used as motivation anymore.
 
MancunianAngels said:
--------------De Gea

Rafael------Jones----Vidic------Buttner

------------Carrick----Fletcher

------Januzaj------Mata---------Kagawa

-----------------Hernandez
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Smalling in for Vidic and we are on the same page . A big game for Moyes because if they beat us that will be their first double over us in ages and it will really amplify his failings here . A bit strange to face them this time of the season with ours effectively over and they are still gunning for fourth and even though it's too late they are just four points below City, if they beat them and us at their place it could have gotten interesting .
PS had completely forgotten about City's two games in hand !
 
LR7 said:
It's weird because this seems like a big game, for Moyes. Do people think it will for our players? Technically we have nothing to play for. Even keeping the momentum going so it carries over for the CL games can't be used as motivation anymore.
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Think this is one of those games where the pressure on the players far outweighs the potential reward, which often seems to result in the team playing within themselves.

Thinking about it though, it could work the other way as all the attention is on Moyes.
 
Go for it win the game and close the gap to 6 points with Everton still to play city it would make things very interesting the last few games
 
Sunny Jim said:
They will beat us convincigly.
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This seems most likely, considering the form of each team, the fact now that we probably won't make fourth no matter what and therefore have little to play for and the pressure on the players and manager going into the game because of the context surrounding the situation. Therefore I am predicting us to win.
 
Shamwow said:
This seems most likely, considering the form of each team, the fact now that we probably won't make fourth no matter what and therefore have little to play for and the pressure on the players and manager going into the game because of the context surrounding the situation. Therefore I am predicting us to win.
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:confused: I thought many here (especially the Moyes supporters) think that we're in a good form now..

Are you trying to put the excuses out in advance in case we lose? Because it doesn't make any sense.

Moyes is playing for his job. Every single player is playing for a spot in the next season and will try to do his best to keep his place in the team. This is a big game for the team (as will every single one of our remaining games be).

I don't like this "excuses in advance" mentality. If it proves anything then it proves that even the Moyes supporters are expecting losses from him now.

I actually, on the other hand, think that Everton are under severe pressure now (they barely beat Sunderland the other day), they will have far less rest than our players (playing 2 games more than us before we meet), and still don't have the quality of players that we have.

I, like any other reasonable United fan imo, expect us to win this game.
 
Shamwow said:
Think this is one of those games where the pressure on the players far outweighs the potential reward, which often seems to result in the team playing within themselves.

Thinking about it though, it could work the other way as all the attention is on Moyes.
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I'm not sure this pressure exists though which is why I think they might struggle to be up for it.
 
We're in good/decent form. My only problem is, I think the players will struggle to be motivated. I hope that's not the case but we're essentially playing for nothing. That's the only problem.
Still I think it will be a competitive close match. 2-2 or 1-2.
 
LR7 said:
It won't be pretty. I was at OT when we played them and after the goal they gave him nothing but stick. It was quite embarrassing for Moyes tbh.
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I don't think his questionable attitude with the joint bid for Fellaini & Baines helped his cause. A lot of Everton fans felt it was arrogant and disrespectful the way he briefed the press on the bid, even though Everton decided to make it public.

It now seems strangely ironic that Moyes suggested Everton might be holding back their careers. Fellaini has turned into a laughing stock under his stewardship, and Martinez has Baines on the cusp of his first Champions League campaign with a side playing outstanding football.
 
A very small part of me wants us to get beaten so soundly that the board has no choice but to finally sack Moyes, even if only after the season has finished. Of course, come match day I'll be thinking nothing of the sort, but right now, a week away... just a little bit.
 
A huge part of me wants that. My shitbag instincts will probably take over on matchday again but it should be way better for the long-term health of the club to pick up a sound beating, contingent on the board actually judging Moyes by performance and not by admiring the concept of patience.
 
niMic said:
A very small part of me wants us to get beaten so soundly that the board has no choice but to finally sack Moyes, even if only after the season has finished. Of course, come match day I'll be thinking nothing of the sort, but right now, a week away... just a little bit.
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same here.
 
niMic said:
A very small part of me wants us to get beaten so soundly that the board has no choice but to finally sack Moyes, even if only after the season has finished. Of course, come match day I'll be thinking nothing of the sort, but right now, a week away... just a little bit.
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I want us to win but if we dont, I'd rather we get thrashed than a draw or a narrow loss. I just cant get myself to actively want us to lose but I totally understand where you're coming from. Our season is done and whatever helps in getting Moyes sacked, should be done. I sincerely hope the board doesnt need a loss vs Everton to sack Moyes though. We've seen enough shit already this season.
 
This week just gets better for United fans. Liverpool put a hand on the trophy now their lot gets to laugh at United fans wanting United to lose.
 
If we do indeed put in a good performance and play like in our better spells against Newcastle or Villa and win, I might actually start believing in a turnaround. Everton are going to be much tougher than those two, though. And they'll have a plan against Mata-Kagawa.
I think it'll end in a 1-1 draw or something.
 
Play Jones in midfield. Everton are very fast. Barkley and Deulefou are very fast on the counter. We won't be sitting back against them and we might have quite a lot of Everton counters. So if we play Carrick and Fletcher together, we are going to be very slow and thus exposing our defence. We need Jones' energy in the midfield. This is one game where I expect Moyes to get our team selection absolutely right. We can assume he knows almost all of the everton squad by now and their strengths and weaknesses?
 
LR7 said:
It's weird because this seems like a big game, for Moyes. Do people think it will for our players? Technically we have nothing to play for. Even keeping the momentum going so it carries over for the CL games can't be used as motivation anymore.
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Moyes could finally win an away game against a top 4 team.
 
I would love to see James Wilson given a run out in this one. He scored a peach of a goal last week for the U'21's in front of Moyes. Rooney is being rested and Welbeck played a howler in Munich, so why not give him a try!
 
It has to be completely emasculating for Moyes to see what's happening at Everton under Martinez. I can't think of a more embarrassing set of circumstances for his return to Goodison.

He's not right for United but I don't think he deserves the abuse he's about to get on Easter Sunday!
 
de Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Jones--Evra
Carrick--Fletcher
Valencia/Januzaj--Mata--Kagawa
Welbeck

Subs: Lindegaard, Ferdinand, Nani, Fellaini, Januzaj, Hernandez, Wilson
 
shabadu84 said:
He's not right for United but I don't think he deserves the abuse he's about to get on Easter Sunday!
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Why doesn't he? Everton have got better without him and United have got a lot worse with him. He's obviously not a good enough manager.

We struggle against Everton at the best of times. But if Moyes can't beat them then my very little hope in him will be completely diminished. Which is what I'm expecting to happen.
 
VeevaVee said:
Everton have got better without him and United have got a lot worse with him. He's obviously not a good enough manager.
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Remarkably reductive logic.

Moyes found Everton in the gutter. They were on the rocks financially and their Chair had started selling players behind Walter Smith's back to keep the banks off. They'd finished in the top half of the table once in 10 years, their previous 5 finishes were 17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th. It looked inevitable that they'd get relegated and the season that Moyes took over looked like being it.

Instead he kept them safe, then over the next 10 years only finished in the bottom half of the table twice, with his last 5 finishes 5th, 8th 7th, 7th, 6th. I think its totally fair to say that Moyes saved Everton. Had they been relegated, given their perilous financial position in those days, they could have been facing years in the wilderness of the lower leagues. Instead he rebuilt the club and assembled a team of players that were able to take the club to the cusp of challenging the big boys, trying to compete with clubs with double the spending power.

Just because Martinez has been able to pick up the reigns, add his stamp and move them forward doesn't take away from what Moyes did in any way. That Martinez was able to pick up that Everton team and challenge the top 4 is credit to Moyes. Do you think he could have done that had he taken them over in the relegation zone as Moyes did?

History certainly suggests not. Martinez took a team in Wigan that had finished 10th, 17th, 14th and 11th in their first four years, then proceeded to lead them to finish 16th, 16th, 15th and 18th, ending of course in relegation. Martinez is building on the foundations Moyes built.

So does that mean Moyes is better than? Course not. Different managers are right for different clubs at different times. Moyes did outstandingly well at Everton, Martinez has done too.
 
bishblaize said:
Remarkably reductive logic.

Moyes found Everton in the gutter. They were on the rocks financially and their Chair had started selling players behind Walter Smith's back to keep the banks off. They'd finished in the top half of the table once in 10 years, their previous 5 finishes were 17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th. It looked inevitable that they'd get relegated and the season that Moyes took over looked like being it.

Instead he kept them safe, then over the next 10 years only finished in the bottom half of the table twice, with his last 5 finishes 5th, 8th 7th, 7th, 6th. I think its totally fair to say that Moyes saved Everton. Had they been relegated, given their perilous financial position in those days, they could have been facing years in the wilderness of the lower leagues. Instead he rebuilt the club and assembled a team of players that were able to take the club to the cusp of challenging the big boys, trying to compete with clubs with double the spending power.

Just because Martinez has been able to pick up the reigns, add his stamp and move them forward doesn't take away from what Moyes did in any way. That Martinez was able to pick up that Everton team and challenge the top 4 is credit to Moyes. Do you think he could have done that had he taken them over in the relegation zone as Moyes did?

History certainly suggests not. Martinez took a team in Wigan that had finished 10th, 17th, 14th and 11th in their first four years, then proceeded to lead them to finish 16th, 16th, 15th and 18th, ending of course in relegation. Martinez is building on the foundations Moyes built.

So does that mean Moyes is better than? Course not. Different managers are right for different clubs at different times. Moyes did outstandingly well at Everton, Martinez has done too.
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You didn't need to bother with the history of Moyes. It's very basic logic but whatever way you look at it the basic facts are true and my opinion of Moyes is likely to be true in regards to us.

Anyway, the most important point is that we shouldn't lose to Everton, even more so now. Yet it is significantly more likely.
 
In some ways it will give a glimpse into the dressing room and how much the players want DM to succeed!

I know we are all guilty of looking into things too closely/deeply...but in this situation the Players have little to play for, whereas the manager will want them at full throttle.
 
bishblaize said:
Remarkably reductive logic.

Moyes found Everton in the gutter. They were on the rocks financially and their Chair had started selling players behind Walter Smith's back to keep the banks off. They'd finished in the top half of the table once in 10 years, their previous 5 finishes were 17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th. It looked inevitable that they'd get relegated and the season that Moyes took over looked like being it.

Instead he kept them safe, then over the next 10 years only finished in the bottom half of the table twice, with his last 5 finishes 5th, 8th 7th, 7th, 6th. I think its totally fair to say that Moyes saved Everton. Had they been relegated, given their perilous financial position in those days, they could have been facing years in the wilderness of the lower leagues. Instead he rebuilt the club and assembled a team of players that were able to take the club to the cusp of challenging the big boys, trying to compete with clubs with double the spending power.

Just because Martinez has been able to pick up the reigns, add his stamp and move them forward doesn't take away from what Moyes did in any way. That Martinez was able to pick up that Everton team and challenge the top 4 is credit to Moyes. Do you think he could have done that had he taken them over in the relegation zone as Moyes did?

History certainly suggests not. Martinez took a team in Wigan that had finished 10th, 17th, 14th and 11th in their first four years, then proceeded to lead them to finish 16th, 16th, 15th and 18th, ending of course in relegation. Martinez is building on the foundations Moyes built.

So does that mean Moyes is better than? Course not. Different managers are right for different clubs at different times. Moyes did outstandingly well at Everton, Martinez has done too.
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They rely heavily on loan players. There has been a constant lack of investment in that club which hampered Moyes from taking it any further and sooner or later, it will hamper Martinez. You can't simply keep relying on a yearly supply of loan players.
 
We have to wait 1/3 of a month to watch United play and now I've realised I'm going to miss it.

Extremely rare that I miss a game, but it can't be helped, unless I can find somewhere showing Sky Sports at Silverstone.
 
Apparently, Rooney and Evans took park in training today. I'd be tempted to stick with the same team that played against Newcastle and have Rooney/Evans on the bench.
 
JaapStam1986 said:
Apparently, Rooney and Evans took park in training today. I'd be tempted to stick with the same team that played against Newcastle and have Rooney/Evans on the bench.
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As would I but who really thinks Moyes is going to drop his golden boy? Rooney's foot would have to be falling off before Moyes even thought of leaving him out. I'm pretty sure he'd play Rooney even if Rooney was totally lashed and still had the smell of a late night kebab on his breath.
 
bishblaize said:
Remarkably reductive logic.

Moyes found Everton in the gutter. They were on the rocks financially and their Chair had started selling players behind Walter Smith's back to keep the banks off. They'd finished in the top half of the table once in 10 years, their previous 5 finishes were 17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th. It looked inevitable that they'd get relegated and the season that Moyes took over looked like being it.

Instead he kept them safe, then over the next 10 years only finished in the bottom half of the table twice, with his last 5 finishes 5th, 8th 7th, 7th, 6th. I think its totally fair to say that Moyes saved Everton. Had they been relegated, given their perilous financial position in those days, they could have been facing years in the wilderness of the lower leagues. Instead he rebuilt the club and assembled a team of players that were able to take the club to the cusp of challenging the big boys, trying to compete with clubs with double the spending power.

Just because Martinez has been able to pick up the reigns, add his stamp and move them forward doesn't take away from what Moyes did in any way. That Martinez was able to pick up that Everton team and challenge the top 4 is credit to Moyes. Do you think he could have done that had he taken them over in the relegation zone as Moyes did?

History certainly suggests not. Martinez took a team in Wigan that had finished 10th, 17th, 14th and 11th in their first four years, then proceeded to lead them to finish 16th, 16th, 15th and 18th, ending of course in relegation. Martinez is building on the foundations Moyes built.

So does that mean Moyes is better than? Course not. Different managers are right for different clubs at different times. Moyes did outstandingly well at Everton, Martinez has done too.
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Excellent post. It amazes me that more people don't seem to get this.
 
For me, it should be:

DDG
Rafa Jones Vidic Evra
Carrick Fletcher
Welbeck Mata Kagawa
Rooney​

With Januzaj and Hernandez likely to come on at some point.

Welbeck's excellent harrying high up the pitch will keep that all-important Barry-McCarthy pivot from getting too comfortable. The Everton game plan relies on those two getting into a good rhythm.
 
de Gea
Rafael Jones Evans Evra
Carrick Fletcher
Valencia Mata Kagawa
Welbeck​
 
Brightonian said:
Excellent post. It amazes me that more people don't seem to get this.
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Agreed, good post. Whatever happens with Moyes and United, it shouldn't change how his work at Everton is regarded. He was the right man for what they needed when they chose him. What might change is whether people think doing a job like that makes you cut out to lead a team with title aspirations.
 
De Gea
Rafael Jones Smalling Evra
Carrick Fletcher
Welbeck Mata Kagawa
Rooney (if fit)
​
If the players are motivated for this then I think we've got a good chance of getting a win here. Goodison Park is never an easy place to go and Everton have been playing really well this season but I think they could be a bit demoralised and drained from Wednesday's game. We'll be fresher going into this one so that could give us a bit of an advantage.

Like I said though, a lot could depend on how motivated our players are for this. If they play like the season's already over then we'll get thumped but if they put in 100% effort and commitment, as they should and as I expect them to, then I reckon we have a decent chance.

I'm going to be optimistic and say we'll sneak a 2-1 win, Mata grabbing another two goals in the process.
 
Apparently Rooney was back training with the first team today.

DDG
Rafa Jones Smalling Evra
Carrick Fellaini (will have a lot to prove)
Welbeck Mata Kagawa
Rooney
 
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