I think the statement has exacerbated the issue massively.
Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse
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I think the statement has exacerbated the issue massively.
No. The FA are being consistent as per my post below.
As far as Terry goes, the police are still investigating. There is no "conspiracy" to it.
The FA have said they'll conduct their own investigation once the police have finished their investigation and produced their results.
Its pretty simple.
Suarez ‘Is Not A Racist’ | The Tomkins Times | Paul Tomkins' blog about Liverpool Football Club (LFC) typical tomkins bullshit.
Ya but I think it's fair to take into account the way it was used against Evra. That was far from affectionate. Now we're getting into perceptions and I'm not sure I get your logic. I'm sure that independent panel had the same definition or at least similar but I'm not sure how because he says Negrito means it's less harmful. I think it sends out a good message and it's a bit hard to say what seems to be sufficient when you include something like race.
At the end of the day, it's a racial insult. Based on the FA's ruling, it doesn't seem to be something that is quite so tolerable.
You see someone being called 'little black man' in an insulting manner versus 'black cnut' as worse. Fair enough. Some people may treat it equally. Others may not. It's your opinion and this is all about context. Liverpool fans talk about how Hernandez should be charged for calling one of his mates "negrito" yet that's his mate's nickname supposedly.
Probably not. I've heard a lot of talk now that if the coin was flipped, we'd be doing the same thing. That's easy to say but how much of that is true, I dont know. I sincerely doubt the club would submit a statement like that. I'm not trying to make it a MUFC v LFC thing but we're better than that and I dont think we would stoop to such a level.
Their only real chance of him getting away with it after he effectively admitted to it was for Kenny to say it was MUFC vs LFC. Looks like the pressure's getting to him already. For me though 8 games seems lenient if the FA is really trying to get rid of racism from the game when you consider someone who fails or doesn't turn up to a drugs test gets a 6 month ban, where as Suarez's ban will be over before the end of January. Unless I am wrong and cup games don't count as games the player is banned from.
I certainly doubt that Suarez identifies as black, like I said, the norms in Uruguay, to my understanding, wouldn't work that way. But that seems to suggest that if you have a black great-grandfather, and don't identify as black, and someone calls you a racist term, you aren't being abused. But the intent to be racist would be there, imo, and that's enough for me.
I read that the crux of the case is whether Evra considered the term to have racist intent, but that's about determining the context of the term in question, 'negro', which *can* be used in a friendly manner. If Evra self-identified as 'muslim' or 'asian' because of a mixed ancestry, that wouldn't mean that Suarez wasn't being racist.
This happens in American all the time, someone comes from a country where they aren't considered black by their norms, and then are considered black by the standard here. It's still racist abuse, imo, even though the person in question doesn't self-identify as black.
I don't think it should matter if you're black and slander black people, or if you're gay and slander homosexuals, you're still breaking the law in using language that makes derogatory reference, which is what the FA rules say.
Yeah they've gotta back off and do some damage limitation - hard to see how mind you.
Pretty skitzo from Kenny. All it's done is give fleet st the ammunition against L'pool IMO and raise the tensions between the two clubs which was a stupid thing to do. I dunno if Ferguson would want to get into a verbal joust with Liverpool because he's pretty much got what he wanted which was justice and stooping to their level just brings unwanted attention which I mentioned before.
Maybe he'll summarise when asked and leave it as that.
It might be used in an affectionate way between friends or family, but there is also a context where it is used to belittle.
Simeon Tegel: Is the term 'negrito' racist? Sadly for the FA, yes and no - News & Comment - Football - The Independent
It would seem the commission believed Suarez was trying to belittle Evra as a little black man rather than lavish him with affection.
From what I've read, it seems he said 'negro' and not 'negrito', but I don't really see what that should matter. It's a term about race used in a derogatory manner. Just think of the white guy in the club coming up to the big black guy he doesn't know and calling him a negro. The only way it's acceptable is if you're friends and it's banter. Still not something you'd want to do in public, as anyone knows.
Even so the defence about culture doesn't hold weight anyway, Suarez has lived in Europe since 2006 so he should know by now that such language is not acceptable in European society.
they can make a public apology. simple.
recant the initial statement.
its even not too late for Suarez. Admit guilt and agree the FA had a job to do. Apologise to Evra. You will see how fast this can be defused.
No one is beyond redemption and Liverpool and Surez can make this right.
I tried to venture on the Danish Liverpool forum to see if RAWK isn't just a bad apple, it really isn't.
I honestly can't comprehend how blindly they are trying to defind the undefendable, one guy even argued that it was the Liverpool way to do so no matter what, fecking hell. Another lad said he lost a lot of respect for Suarez and he was instantly shut down by the rest.
Oh and half of the posts kept mentioning that it was of course Sir Alex who controls the FA that made it happen, even if it wasn't their call.
Anyone know a reasonable Liverpool forum or are they all blindly supporting the racist cannibal?
I honestly can't comprehend how blindly they are trying to defind the undefendable, one guy even argued that it was the Liverpool way to do so no matter what, fecking hell. Another lad said he lost a lot of respect for Suarez and he was instantly shut down by the rest.
Oh and half of the posts kept mentioning that it was of course Sir Alex who controls the FA that made it happen, even if it wasn't their call.
Anyone know a reasonable Liverpool forum or are they all blindly supporting the racist cannibal?
I think you make a great point in the last paragraph there. It's a derogatory reference. I just dont buy the whole 'well in x country it means y'. He's in England and therefore has to abide by those rules. Apparently, those rules say that what has taken place is a violation of the rules and Suarez has been rightfully punished. Sure people can have issue with the length of the ban but at the very least, he is being punished. This is what he had coming to him. His confession basically sealed his fate. I dont understand how he said our lads call him "Negrito". Maybe he means mate. In that case, everyone says that. Not everyone says "Negrito"
The statement from Liverpool is fecking ridiculous. Who read thought and that, 'yeah, that works'?
That's one thing I'll just never understand. I wonder what these same people were thinking when he got a 5 match ban. They just ignore the obvious and use their obsession to come up with the ridiculous
whoever thought that siege mentality was the best route to go.
My point exactly.
It's beyond me as well, I'd love how they'd explain that Sir Alex pressured the FA into banning Rooney for 2 matches for swearing, how he made sure Rio got a longer ban than two City players who infact were tested positive, how Rooney and Scholes got banned in the League after getting red cards in a friendly tournament and a Liverpool player (who it was eludes me) didn't. Probably so it doesn't seem to obvious?
If that is Sir Alex controlling the FA he is very poor at it. They are just serverely incompetent or very inconsistent at least.
Oh well, that's off topic anyways.
It's very hard to believe that a lawyer gave that statement the go ahead. Unless he was a Liverpool supporter.
I only just read that statement, I didn't know whether to laugh or be amazed at the sheer stupidity of the club 
Whats even more bemusing is that my scouse friends on FB genunely seem to think it was a brilliant response, I don't want to live on this planet anymore
Whats even more bemusing is that my scouse friends on FB genunely seem to think it was a brilliant response, I don't want to live on this planet anymore
I reckon Terry hasn't been shitting himself this much since Wayne Bridge arrived home half hour early.
Bridge is such a pussy he'd probably have got away with: 'I'm training to be a gynaecologist after I give up on the football mate'
Even assuming that negrito was the word used, which we don't know for sure yet, I'm pretty sure that it is only a non-offensive term when used non-offensively to a friend or the like. When used repeatedly to an obviously angered black man I'm pretty sure that is was meant offensively and therefore warranted the punishment that Suarez received.
They'll play for a draw against Oldham in the FA-Cup to take one of the games off the ban.
Things that statement does wrong.
1. Refuses to accept or respect the decision of an independent inquiry. - This is the least of its crimes, and probably expected. Most Liverpool fans will see this as bullishly and passionately standing up for themselves. Most other clubs would've probably added at least a conciliatory "we respect this, but disagree" not to mention be at pains to defend a player found guilty of racist abuse a little less fervently & bit more diplomatically...If only for PRs sake...But it's a minor issue compared to what else it does wrong.
2. Ignoring the actual charge - Which was of using racially motivated/abusive language (in this case "negrito" or "negro") in one instance, which he's allegedly admitted, and instead mounted a long and rambling defence of the player via his background and history in an attempt to clear his name of a wider accusation. This is a bit like trying to fight a drink driving charge by saying you once took your mate's keys away when he was drunk. It's sort of not really relevant to the charge that's been brought.
3. Accusing Patrice Evra of making previous unfounded accusations - From a club issued statement, this is a massive clanger. Especially considering this myth was brought up and dispelled several times during the build up to this decision.
4. Insinuating Patrice Evra's statement is not to be trusted...And then using it to bolster the claim that Suarez is not a racist. Also again failing to acknowledge the actual charge against him in favor of the wider defence of his character.
5. Insinuating the blame of, and inciting a hatred of Patrice Evra amongst it's already riled fanbase - Attempting to villify the supposedly abused player in an attempt at a straw man argument based mainly on an incorrect promotion of previous allegations he hadn't made is a hugely irresponsible thing for a club to "officially" do. It also draws the line in the sand between the two clubs and it's fans. It's inflammatory at best, dangerous at worst.
6. Upholding the stereotype of Liverpool & it's fans - Whatever jokes you might make about scousers, it's always unfair to stereotype an entire section of people. The self pity city victim mentality image of Liverpool is really not helped by a club statement that complains everything is completely unfair and tries to blame it on someone else. Especially in such a delicate topic such as this.
7. Making diplomacy and damage limitation far harder - Bullishness may appeal to riled up fans, but practically makes the situation far harder for all concerned. It certainly leaves them open to looking very stupid if they don't get their way and they may even end up making his ban longer.
I'm sure there are more tbh...
He's under police investigation genius, the FA can't act until that has concluded.
And no, the punishment is not harsh. Discrimination or abuse based on racial lines is one of the most ass backwards things to be propagating in 2011. Suarez got what he deserved.
Daniel Taylor says that the word used is supposed to be "negro", not "negrito". But I've no idea what difference that makes.
https://twitter.com/#!/DTguardian/status/149255407326597120
https://twitter.com/#!/DTguardian/status/149254097894256640
https://twitter.com/#!/DTguardian/status/149255407326597120
https://twitter.com/#!/DTguardian/status/149254097894256640
In Spanish, negro means black, the colour black, whereas negrito literally means 'little black' or little black man, the 'little' is used as a term of endearment.
Not being fluent in Spanish nor knowing South American culture, I'n not sure of the context in which they are spoken, but that's irrelevant, all that matters is that it's unacceptable in England.
Not being fluent in Spanish nor knowing South American culture, I'n not sure of the context in which they are spoken, but that's irrelevant, all that matters is that it's unacceptable in England.
Great summary, Mockers!
Agreed, point 3 could be especially troublesome, legally.
You know who came out of this deal really well? United and Fergie.
No trial by media, no demonizing of Suarez, no random mudslinging - in fact we said almost nothing at all.
Just about perfect.
No trial by media, no demonizing of Suarez, no random mudslinging - in fact we said almost nothing at all.
Just about perfect.
I'd say even less and let Liverpool make even bigger cnuts out of themselves.
The other day I saw someone on RAWK say that they have been quiet the whole time while SAF hasn't stopped talking about it
EDIT:
Close enough
EDIT:
Close enough
Christ, every liverpool fan you see seems all to eager to smear themselves in six shades of shit to actually turn this back away from Suarez. Unbelievable. Not this this level of deflection since the days of the FSW
This place is so crowded. Anybody seen Dumbstar around?
I cannot understand the flow of the argument in Liverpool's statement.
They say Suarez made comments that are acceptable in Uruguay but not in England. If that is the case, surely the obvious course of action is to issue an 'apology' for the misunderstanding and a promise never to do it again.
But they complain about Evra reporting comments that would upset most black people in England. They say Suarez isn't racist. He hasn't been charged with being a racist - he has been charged with making certain comments, comments that Liverpool know are offensive.
Then, after admitting the comments were made, they criticize Evra, saying he is not a credible witness. He doesn't need to be. Liverpool and Suarez have admitted what was said.
In South America, the term can be an insult or a 'term of endearment'. I think it is many years since Liverpool and United players have repeatedly used 'terms of endearment' towards each other during matches. It is, therefore much more likely to be insulting.
As an aside, from what I have read on here, the bit about Evra having previous is wrong. If so, I'd love him to sue.
They say Suarez made comments that are acceptable in Uruguay but not in England. If that is the case, surely the obvious course of action is to issue an 'apology' for the misunderstanding and a promise never to do it again.
But they complain about Evra reporting comments that would upset most black people in England. They say Suarez isn't racist. He hasn't been charged with being a racist - he has been charged with making certain comments, comments that Liverpool know are offensive.
Then, after admitting the comments were made, they criticize Evra, saying he is not a credible witness. He doesn't need to be. Liverpool and Suarez have admitted what was said.
In South America, the term can be an insult or a 'term of endearment'. I think it is many years since Liverpool and United players have repeatedly used 'terms of endearment' towards each other during matches. It is, therefore much more likely to be insulting.
As an aside, from what I have read on here, the bit about Evra having previous is wrong. If so, I'd love him to sue.