I don’t like Max but I do feel a bit sorry for him. He is the best driver on the grid currently (I love Hamilton but age is a factor here and he will always be my GOAT) and is capable of winning a championship on merit without these FIA and Red Bull being dodgy cnuts but they can’t help themselves.
F1 2022 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
For him to be taken seriously he needs to move teams Red Bull are corrupt..
That's what I was thinking. Red Bull is saying their submission came in under the cap and apparently it didn't take FIA much research to find the issue. To me, that sounds like Red Bull thought they found a loophole or have a different interpretation of a specific budget item(s) (i.e., that it/they don't count towards the cap), and that FIA disagrees. That would mean Red Bull is counting the same way this year, and would have to cut costs quickly to not end up over the cap again. But it probably also means legal action, as Red Bull will have been convinced of their interpretation ahead of their submission and are unlikely to just accept FIA's interpretation and whatever penalty comes with it. (Except if FIA offers a soft penalty as a one-off compromise - which they might if there really is some grey area in the rules.)
In any case, all the reactions in here about Red Bull being fraudsters and FIA being corrupt seem rather premature - but then of course no-one expects nuance from this thread.
We've got plenty of past history to go on.
Thats yet to be cleared by the FIA, if they hid details then yes that would be a fraud. For now the Brawn statement isn't a slam dunk as that hasn't been determined yet
Yeah, I know your mind is made up. You've made that very clear. See the last line of my post.
You seriously think the FIA will be open about this?
I can't work out why Red Bull, if they had ambiguity or different interpretation of a specific budget item, just didn't seek clarification of it during the season. Like the technical elements of a car, teams are early enough to engage the FIA for clarification of a rule (technical or sporting) to ensure it is legal or at the very least legal in it's interpretation of a rule. It's strange to think they'd wait till submission and then seek clarification after it's been reviewed.
I agree and I don't believe we will even get to that. RB will accept the Breach Agreement and get a minor penalty handed out to them, sporting and financial.
But that will just increase the feeling that last season was tainted.
Probably they felt sufficiently confident they were doing it right?
I mean, an alternative is that Red Bull actually really tried to dodge the rules. Given that they knew FIA would auditing everyone's submissions, that would seem like an incredibly stupid thing to do. But playing with the rules is a much beloved past-time in F1 (see the constant bickering about technical specs and teams accusing others of trespassing), so I wouldn't be surprised if Red Bull did that here as well. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if the penalty were relatively mild (maybe forward-facing, like windtunnel time, and maybe some meaningless constructors points deductions past year and this), accompanied by further clarification from FIA regarding whatever rule(s) Red Bull has been trying to be creative with.
Assuming, of course, Red Bull haven't actually been stupid and really did knowingly break the rules - in which case heavier punishment is absolutely in order.
The thing is we need clarity on this situation like now..
So far,
So far,
Sigh
Aston Martin didn't overspend.
But wasn't it all just a made up conspiracy by Toto and Mercedes?
Sigh all you want it's true.
i heard it was over a few hundred k as red bull weren’t accounting for the sacks they were using to drown puppies and kittens in rivers in.
Yeh, exactly as it was proved to be. Toto put the $10m figure out knowing it was a load of cobblers because that's been his strategy all season, to do whatever it takes to detract or distract from their massive failings and placate their deluded fans.
If you can't understand the basic terminology of a word like fraud there's not much point getting worked up about it.
I thought it was the few hundred k cleaning fees following their mass jizz parties with a life size Max statue in the middle of the room
I understand it just fine. I believe that they put in figures that were below the cap while knowing the had breached it.
That's what I'm saying in either punishing Red Bull properly, ie losing the championship or if they just get a fine like what a lot of people think then detail this fineable threshold and let other teams decide if they think it's worth entering. I'm sure Red Bull's rivals would be keen to follow suit to gain performance.
The best precedent to set so no-one would dare overspend is removing the championship or disqualification.
No it's just what you want to be true.
It's either that or their accountants are inept and I don't believe that.
Don't ruin a good meme please.
Why is it so hard to believe there could be grey areas in the regulations that are open to interpretation? There is even a possibility RB take this to court and win. I hope not, I'd rather this gets settled quickly, but I don't think it's all as black and white as some on here are making it out to be.
Rumours are around $1.8m over and RB believed the costs wouldn’t be included.
I don’t know if that’s really bad or not, certainly not as bad as rumoured or talked about in Singapore.
FIA need to come out quick as it impacts 2022. As long as they are transparent and punishment is clear think it will all be fine in the end.
I don’t know if that’s really bad or not, certainly not as bad as rumoured or talked about in Singapore.
FIA need to come out quick as it impacts 2022. As long as they are transparent and punishment is clear think it will all be fine in the end.
Also the fact the FIA havent given a figure very clearly means they expect some part of the overspend to be successfully argued away and the regulations tightened up for next time.
Seems Red Bull regularly benefit from FIA's, so called, incompetence.
Red Bull have deep pockets.
Most are probably finding it hard to believe there could be grey areas on the basis that 9 out of the 10 teams managed to interpret the budget cap correctly according to the FIA's findings today.
Yep.
There are people in this thread who have already long made up their minds and aren't open to consider other options. Classic internet moment where all people do is get further in trenched in their belief. I agree with you, it's not fraud. It could be an intentional overspend to improve their cars performance, it could literally be extra catering, we don't know and won't know till we get more details, instead of believing other teams principles who are only incentivised to make it as big an issue as they can.
I mean, F1 is the wrong sport to have a conversation about interpreting rules differently. Look at each time there is a regulations change and the grey areas 1 or 2 teams will exploit within them.
Probably they thought it easier to ask for forgiveness than permission
Especially if they thought they wouldn't get permission
That would be amazing, I think some people here would explode. I seriously want to see that
No one expects integrity from the FIA or Red Bull either.
Of course, that's a constant in the sport for the last 20-30 years. The difference with technical regualations, and certainly of the last 10 years is teams will seek clarification from the FIA that their interpretation of said technical rule is in line with what's produced. Horner went to lengths to explain the protest process with the FIA in Drive to Survive (season 2 or 3 iirc) as a tool to clarify those grey areas in regulations. I can't work out why they would wait till a submission if they assumed a grey area, and if they are the only team to do. This doesn't carry much logic to me personally.
The FIA hasn't helped today in being transparent and highlighting the amount, and where the overspend has happened. I can't really call anything until this is revealed, however I'm conscious of the fact that if Red Bull agree a penalty (whatever that may be) then we'll never know what is was. Like Ferrari's mysterious penalty in 2018.
I'd be happy with that.That would be amazing, I think some people here would explode. I seriously want to see that
Every time I've heard of it the team went to the FIA before hand and were told that it didn't break the rules only to have the rule strengthened the next season.
Quoting these posts as they were most relevant to this point, but this isn’t a direct response to them.
The catering and sick pay line seem to have come from Dutch journalist Erik van Haren earlier today, but both those categories don’t seem to be included in any calculation of a budget cap. Catering deemed as standard hospitality budgets, and sick pay is excluded (points u-w on page 8).
So it would appear, not that it’s broadly relevant as a breach is still a breach, that spend would have likely come from performance based areas rather than overspend on operating business expenditure, which by nature of those regulations the FIA published, wouldn’t even come into their calculations.