Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

Desert Eagle said:
They are two of the top five cbs of all time. What weaknesses do they have?
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I've had this discussion every single draft, a bit bored of it by now. Both have great awareness and organise the defence well, which you only need one to do. Not a big deal so long as it is clear which one, but I tend to prefer unequivocal situations. Pace would be a concern.

It's not the pair that would most concern me though and they both are top five or so IMO, absolutely. It is usually when the wrong fullbacks are added that it all goes to shit for me.
 
Pace would be definitely be a concern there, but any team with Passarella gets a lot of credit from me. A draft favourite of mine.

I was tempted to get him again here but it just wouldn't have worked with Beckenbauer
 
According to Pele, Moore is the best defender he has ever played against. According to Maradona, Pasarella is the best defender he has ever played against. Not to mention the damage they can do in the opposition box.
 
Pol 1. Maradona 2. P Maldini 3. Breitner
Cal 1. Pele 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gerson
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romario 3. Scirea
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa
Cutch 1. Muller 2. Facchetti
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi
 
Theon said:
Pace would be definitely be a concern there, but any team with Passarella gets a lot of credit from me. A draft favourite of mine.
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I know!

I was tempted to get him again here but it just wouldn't have worked with Beckenbauer
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That's the thing, saying they are two of the Top 5 actually underscores my point. The Top 5 are bound to be a very specific breed: 1. great awareness, 2. organise the defence, 3. ballplaying defenders who contribute to the buildup. They lead at the back and from the back, that's why they stand out from other CBs who may be exceptional but within a narrower remit.

I think only Baresi would be one you would comfortably pair with the others. Not sure exactly why, probably that he won't get as involved or bothered with the buildup bit so I could see good scope there for sharing duties in a way that adds more than the sum of parts: "I'll keep things tidy here, you go have fun mate" type thing. With Moore and Passarella one of the outstanding contributions is in the build up but they can't be doing it at the same time, can't see either being happy to be limited to being the water-carrier while the other is doing his thing... In a strange way, one of the two has to be subdued/not at his best for the other to do so. That doesn't quite work for me.

Of course you took it to a new level when you had Passarella roaming forward while your leftback was an extra attacker, half your defence seemed to be AWOL and the midfielder on that left side was not going to do any significant covering. It was manic :lol:
 
Fergus' son said:
My pick is Roberto Rivelino.
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I love him. Goes to show what difference the constraints make. When you could only have one per country I rode him and picked him at 12th. Bargain. This is fairer.

Desert Eagle said:
According to Pele, Moore is the best defender he has ever played against. According to Maradona, Pasarella is the best defender he has ever played against. Not to mention the damage they can do in the opposition box.
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So they both go to make damage in the opposition box? That's exactly where I'm coming from, it doesn't add up to the sum of the parts, one will have to play an entirely different game from what they are renowned for.
 
antohan said:
I love him. Goes to show what difference the constraints make. When you could only have one per country I rode him and picked him at 12th. Bargain. This is fairer.



So they both go to make damage in the opposition box? That's exactly where I'm coming from, it doesn't add up to the sum of the parts, one will have to play an entirely different game from what they are renowned for.
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That was awesome and ridiculous at the same time. Roberto friggin Rivelino as a luxury player to come off the bench if needed. :lol:
 
antohan said:
It was manic :lol:
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I can't even remember who I had with Passarella before upgrading to Baresi! I remember that whole defence being a huge gamble at the time made worse with the attacking left back and defensively weak midfield.

But yeah I agree with you there is a clash of styles, KM had a similar problem in the All Time draft and it is one I'm in danger of falling into if I don't get it right. Libero's in general can be pretty hard to get right I think
 
Has really no one picked Carlos Alberto yet? :drool: I'm sure he's very happy to join Jairzinho for the most exiting right flank the game has ever seen.
 
Theon said:
I can't even remember who I had with Passarella before upgrading to Baresi! I remember that whole defence being a huge gamble at the time made worse with the attacking left back and defensively weak midfield.

But yeah I agree with you there is a clash of styles, KM had a similar problem in the All Time draft and it is one I'm in danger of falling into if I don't get it right. Libero's in general can be pretty hard to get right I think
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Yeah it's a fecking bitch.

I had defensive three of Beckebaur-Scirea and another. I was criticised as Beckenbaur and Scirea were too similar according to the people.
 
Theon said:
I can't even remember who I had with Passarella before upgrading to Baresi! I remember that whole defence being a huge gamble at the time made worse with the attacking left back and defensively weak midfield.

But yeah I agree with you there is a clash of styles, KM had a similar problem in the All Time draft and it is one I'm in danger of falling into if I don't get it right. Libero's in general can be pretty hard to get right I think
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Exactly. Play Passarella in a five man defence as a Beckenbauer-lite (was referre to as El Kaiser as well) and there's zero problems. Play him in a back four and his CB partner and fullback have to be a certain sort or it all goes tits up very quickly.
 
Pol 1. Maradona 2. P Maldini 3. Breitner
Cal 1. Pele 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gerson
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romario 3. Scirea
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa
Cutch 1. Muller 2. Facchetti
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi
 
KM said:
Yeah it's a fecking bitch.

I had defensive three of Beckebaur-Scirea and another. I was criticised as Beckenbaur and Scirea were too similar according to the people.
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Was that with wingbacks? It really depend on that third defender if that is the case. Would have to work well with Scirea and I'd assume Beckenbauer was doing his usual game. Scirea would not reach his highest standard though, absolutely not. That's precisely the point, if you add two great players one may be subdued/prevented from being at his very best, in which case he is just another good looking name on the teamsheet.
 
antohan said:
Was that with wingbacks? It really depend on that third defender if that is the case. Would have to work well with Scirea and I'd assume Beckenbauer was doing his usual game. Scirea would not reach his highest standard though, absolutely not. That's precisely the point, if you add two great players one may be subdued/prevented from being at his very best, in which case he is just another good looking name on the teamsheet.
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Yup with the wingbacks.
 
Balls, I'm pretty clear on one of Gio's picks, but not the other. Cutch worries me as well. I wouldn't expect them to be after this player but there have been some really odd picks so far.
 
antohan said:
Great pick, great flank too.
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Was actually the plan after you picked Neeskens. Thought for a while, who's more likely to last till my 3rd pick and chose Jairzinho first. Amazing, that it worked, really happy about it.

Seems like I need to pick my partnerships on the way up the list, because you, Gio, Cutch and TITO are more likely to feck up my ideas than the rest of the managers all together ;).
 
Going back to the earlier Pelé and Garrincha discussion, it was Didí in midfield that made it all fall together. Same here really, Hungary's midfield dynamo:

József Bozsik
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Pol 1. Maradona 2. P Maldini 3. Breitner
Cal 1. Pele 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gerson
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romario 3. Scirea
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino
Balu/NM 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa
Cutch 1. Muller 2. Facchetti
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi
 
Balu said:
Has really no one picked Carlos Alberto yet? :drool: I'm sure he's very happy to join Jairzinho for the most exiting right flank the game has ever seen.
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The right flank in my last game :drool:

Good pick. I was hoping fullbacks in general would last a few more turns before the inevitable rush to snap them up

Edit - Another good pick, God this is annoying
 
An outrageous fact: he got sent off against Brazil in the quarters yet there were no suspensions then so he was available to pull the strings again in the semi against Uruguay :mad:
 
antohan said:
An outrageous fact: he got sent off against Brazil in the quarters yet there were no suspensions then so he was available to pull the strings again in the semi against Uruguay :mad:
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I read that today :lol:

He was full on fighting with someone wasn't he? So it wasn't as if it was a sneaky tackle that shouldn't have been a red!
 
Theon said:
I read that today :lol:

He was full on fighting with someone wasn't he? So it wasn't as if it was a sneaky tackle that shouldn't have been a red!
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Where? There's very little I can find on him specifically on the internet, largely going off the back of my "History of the World Cup" collection. It's awesome, written by a Uruguayan journo who went to every World Cup from 1930 to 1986 (I think he didn't attend 1990, that's the last one covered but he was friggin' old by then). My grandad also went to quite a few up to 1970 as he was in the Uruguayan FA, such great stories growing up!

BTW, it wasn't rescinded, you just didn't miss the next game back then, just the rest of the one currently being played. More of a reason why people got the shit kicked out of them once the scoreline was two/three goals clear. And yes, proper fight, both got sent off. Can't remember who the Brazilian was but he was a big name player too, just never cared as the gist of the story was my grandad telling me how fecked we were going into the semi.
 
Edit - Gonna delete that link because it's naming far too many players
 
Yeah, it's that sort of stuff which really screwed things up. Mindless challenges robbed Uruguay of Varela and two of its best attacking players for the semi, while Hungary had Puskas injured. Whoever was the winner, after ET, had their work cut out for the final and Hungary ended up playing puskas on one leg and in the absence of a fit RB sub Bozsik played in defence completely screwing up their rhythm. I don't know what my grandfather was more upset about, that Uruguay had finally lost their unbeaten World Cup record or that Hungary didn't go on to win it.
 
Theon said:
The right flank in my last game :drool:

Good pick. I was hoping fullbacks in general would last a few more turns before the inevitable rush to snap them up

Edit - Another good pick, God this is annoying
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I was hoping for a centerback rush actually. After Baresi and Figueroa were picked, I thought the next 2 rounds will see a lot of top centerbacks mixed with brilliant attackers gone and the fullback rush delayed, so there was a good chance that Carlos Alberto might slip through and he's just perfect for my team.
 
No worries Theon, already reading up. They were all on my awesome excel anyway!
 
antohan said:
Yeah, it's that sort of stuff which really screwed things up. Mindless challenges robbed Uruguay of Varela and two of its best attacking players for the semi, while Hungary had Puskas injured. Whoever was the winner, after ET, had their work cut out for the final and Hungary ended up playing puskas on one leg and in the absence of a fit RB sub Bozsik played in defence completely screwing up their rhythm. I don't know what my grandfather was more upset about, that Uruguay had finally lost their unbeaten World Cup record or that Hungary didn't go on to win it.
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My Grandfather was quite happy about it ;). I think he told me stories about that world cup every single time he brought me to football practise as a little boy.
 
Theon said:
I read that today :lol:

He was full on fighting with someone wasn't he? So it wasn't as if it was a sneaky tackle that shouldn't have been a red!
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I'm not sure if they gave red cards for tackles at all back then, didn't really matter how bad the tackles was.
 
Theon said:
Haha I thought they would be! I PMed it anyway
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It's a great article! So many great tidbits I didn't know about!

  • Born in the Kispest area of Budapest, Bozsik (nicknamed “Cucu” by his grandmother at an early age) developed a life-long friendship with Ferenc Puskas from the age of five and the two would go on to form arguably the most fruitful footballing partnership in history. [:D]
  • In order therefore to retain their two star players, Kispest gave a local ironmonger’s shop to Bozsik and Puskas. The pair considered themselves rich at the time, but within a matter of months the government embarked on a programme of nationalising small businesses and the shop was no more. [fecking commies! :lol:]
  • One man who held Bozsik in particularly high regard was Puskas’ father, also called Ferenc. He coached Honved in two spells, sandwiched around a brief period where the great Bela Guttmann took charge. If ever Puskas wanted to convince his father of something he would say, “Ask your friend Bozsik, he will tell you I’m right.” [Puskas comes across as an overeager kid :lol: Bela Guttman, such great memories with Peñarol :drool:]
  • [After 1956 uprising catches them playing abroad] Bozsik’s position was among the most difficult. He was not only a member of the Communist party, he was also a deputy in the Hungarian parliament. Furthermore, his father had recently died and he did not feel he could abandon his mother and four brothers in Budapest. The chance to coach at Atletico Madrid (an offer obtained for him by Emil Osterreicher) was tempting, but he could not fail to return home.[Respect]
 
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