Gareth Bale is...The most expensive player ever?!

Jaybezia said:
Your not understanding my comment, I didn't comment on NET spend, I commented on how much Spurs spend, yes it does do well when you manage to rake a lot of sales in to pull that figure down, but that's a separate issue, your sales/purchase aren't usually that break even, and do you know why that was? Because you sold a lot of your better players.. surely you can't think that represents progress? Again you presume that when I said of the 'Spurs cycle' that I can't be talking about a period longer than 3 years? I would say around 5-6 in total but they are coming to the peak of that cycle, time will tell, if I'm wrong I'm wrong... I don't have a grudge against Spurs though, a few likeable players, decent Manager IMO, just Levy... ;)
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Did Spurs really sell a lot of their better players over the last 3-4 years, though? To my mind they got rid of a lot of deadwood and Modric; the likes of:

Kranjcar
Corluka
Pienaar
Bassong
VDV
Dos Santos
O'Hara
Keane
Hutton
Crouch
Palacios
Pavlyuchenko
Zokora
Bent
Chimbonda
KP Boateng

Getting over £100m for that set of players is nothing short of miraculous and should be praised as a massive step forward, rather than a step back. Replacing them with Sandro, Vertonghen, Dembele, Adebayor, Lloris, Holtby, Dempsey, Parker, Kaboul, Sigurdsson etc represents a huge increase in talent and squad strength, whilst at the same time making a nice amount of profit.

Jaybezia said:
Which is comparing Spurs and Arsenal... my only point was I think he was talking about Spurs vs Spurs, saying that basically they have a worse team, if your better off points wise (I don't know I haven't worked it out) But that could be to many reasons such as weaker opponents/ injury luck/ luck results etc etc again, I'm not saying that's the case and I may have misunderstood but I think Peterstorey was just trying to say he thinks Spurs as team are worse... not Arsenal have moved on more than Spurs have moved on from Time A to Time B...
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You could easily say they have lost one of their best players and their main striker is now uninterested, therefore they are a worse team. However look at the flip side: their goalkeeper is much better. Their defence with Vertonghen is superior. Their midfield now has Holtby, Dembele and Sigurdsson, whilst Sandro is a year older and looking much improved vs losing Modric (I'd say equally as strong as worst). Their attack is in my opinion much better: Lennon, Bale and Defoe are playing far better this season vs Adebayor playing worse.

You can't use Adebayor's poor form as an example of them being worse without using the form of everyone else being much better as an example of the team improving - apples and oranges as they say.
 
Jaybezia said:
Your missing my point, yous started your post by stating
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It's you're, fecking you're! As in you are, fecking feckity feck!

I'm sorry Jay, but every time you post you get this wrong, SORT IT OUT MUTHA feckA!
 
Cina said:
It's you're, fecking you're! As in you are, fecking feckity feck!

I'm sorry Jay, but every time you post you get this wrong, SORT IT OUT MUTHA feckA!
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It is a horrible habbit, I know...

I will try and change it for your comfort so that you won't have to endure it anymore :) I will actually keep an eye lol
 
I'm just the beginning, it's Plech you should be worried about.
 
finneh said:
Did Spurs really sell a lot of their better players over the last 3-4 years, though? To my mind they got rid of a lot of deadwood and Modric; the likes of:

Kranjcar
Corluka
Pienaar
Bassong
VDV
Dos Santos
O'Hara
Keane
Hutton
Crouch
Palacios
Pavlyuchenko
Zokora
Bent
Chimbonda
KP Boateng

Getting over £100m for that set of players is nothing short of miraculous and should be praised as a massive step forward, rather than a step back. Replacing them with Sandro, Vertonghen, Dembele, Adebayor, Lloris, Holtby, Dempsey, Parker, Kaboul, Sigurdsson etc represents a huge increase in talent and squad strength, whilst at the same time making a nice amount of profit.



You could easily say they have lost one of their best players and their main striker is now uninterested, therefore they are a worse team. However look at the flip side: their goalkeeper is much better. Their defence with Vertonghen is superior. Their midfield now has Holtby, Dembele and Sigurdsson, whilst Sandro is a year older and looking much improved vs losing Modric (I'd say equally as strong as worst). Their attack is in my opinion much better: Lennon, Bale and Defoe are playing far better this season vs Adebayor playing worse.

You can't use Adebayor's poor form as an example of them being worse without using the form of everyone else being much better as an example of the team improving - apples and oranges as they say.
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I hate to not be able to draw a full lengthy discussion back, by if you drew that list from your head you are clearly better informed on me on this subject and I concede that, however, I don't agree that they were all 'dead wood', but I was suprised to see that list as I did think it contained better players but if that is the list, then your fully correct in what you're saying...
 
Cina said:
I'm just the beginning, it's Plech you should be worried about.
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I have seen his thread in the general actually, I can't say I would pretend to be able to write that or well, or even want to know in fact.

However getting 'you're' instead of 'your' is elementary, I have been named and shamed.
 
finneh said:
Did Spurs really sell a lot of their better players over the last 3-4 years, though? To my mind they got rid of a lot of deadwood and Modric; the likes of:

Kranjcar
Corluka
Pienaar
Bassong
VDV
Dos Santos
O'Hara
Keane
Hutton
Crouch
Palacios
Pavlyuchenko
Zokora
Bent
Chimbonda
KP Boateng

Getting over £100m for that set of players is nothing short of miraculous and should be praised as a massive step forward, rather than a step back. Replacing them with Sandro, Vertonghen, Dembele, Adebayor, Lloris, Holtby, Dempsey, Parker, Kaboul, Sigurdsson etc represents a huge increase in talent and squad strength, whilst at the same time making a nice amount of profit.
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Don't think much of Dempsey, Kaboul, Siguarsson, Adebayor personally. Parker is okay but nothing special.

They dropped a massive bollock letting Kevin Prince Boateng go, and van Der Vaart and Pienaar are both very good players.
 
finneh said:
You could easily say they have lost one of their best players and their main striker is now uninterested, therefore they are a worse team. However look at the flip side: their goalkeeper is much better. Their defence with Vertonghen is superior. Their midfield now has Holtby, Dembele and Sigurdsson, whilst Sandro is a year older and looking much improved vs losing Modric (I'd say equally as strong as worst). Their attack is in my opinion much better: Lennon, Bale and Defoe are playing far better this season vs Adebayor playing worse.

You can't use Adebayor's poor form as an example of them being worse without using the form of everyone else being much better as an example of the team improving - apples and oranges as they say.
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I don't think the goalkeeper is 'much' better at all, albeit slightly better suited to their new style of play perhaps.

Kaboul was every bit as good as Vertonghen last year, some would say better even.

Sigurdsson and Dempsey are not as good as Van der Vaart, who for all his attitude problems, was still a class above. Holtby looks like he might be the real replacement, but it's too early to tell.

Jermaine Defoe scored 11 goals basically 'from the bench' last year. Promoting him to main striker this year, only to get the same goal return is a calamity in my opinion, and the main reason Adebayor is the shit form that he is.

Sandro might have shown glimpses of improvement earlier in the season but he's now out for a protracted period of time, and there's no guarantee he'll come out of it the same player that he was. For evidence of what a long term injury can do to a player you needn't look any further than Ekotto who is nowhere near the confidence and form now that he was before he got injured.

Bale has improved. Don't think even Lynk and Plissken would dispute that.

But that's it. There's no great improvement whatsoever overall. The biggest positive is that they didn't regress after losing Modric, but the league position is flattering, and mainly down to Arsenal being utter scheiße, and Chelsea letting a manager recreate a Disney cartoon.

Any triumphalism on their part will be premature, regardless of how the season finishes, and the real test for that team will be the upcoming string of difficult fixtures.
 
TheReligion said:
Don't think much of Dempsey, Kaboul, Siguarsson, Adebayor personally. Parker is okay but nothing special.

They dropped a massive bollock letting Kevin Prince Boateng go, and van Der Vaart and Pienaar are both very good players.
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Don't get me wrong, they aren't great players, but they are an improvement. Adebayor is better than Pavlyuchenko; Parker is better than O'Hara; Sandro is better than Palacios; Kaboul is better than Bassong; Sigurdsson is better than Krankjar; Walker is better than Corluka. The majority are also younger and have a higher ceiling than their counterparts. I really don't think anyone could suggest that Spurs are going anywhere but forwards. They have a solid group of early-mid 20's players in Vertonghen, Lloris, Walker, Sandro, Bale, Lennon, Huddlestone, Sigurdsson, Holtby, Caulker and Dembele to really build an exciting team. Combine this with the experience of Dawson, Dempsey, Defoe, Adebayor and Parker, I'd say they have a balanced squad.

Their biggest problem is that they are going to always struggle to concrete themselves into the top 4, because they don't have the turnover to back up a top 4 team. Chelsea, United, Arsenal, City and Liverpool all have higher turnovers and Spurs will only fall further behind when Arsenal's current sponsorship deals run out, probably adding £50m. This problem will be multiplied if they build a new stadium.
 
Moonwalker said:
I don't think the goalkeeper is 'much' better at all, albeit slightly better suited to their new style of play perhaps.

Kaboul was every bit as good as Vertonghen last year, some would say better even.

Sigurdsson and Dempsey are not as good as Van der Vaart, who for all his attitude problems, was still a class above. Holtby looks like he might be the real replacement, but it's too early to tell.

Jermaine Defoe scored 11 goals basically 'from the bench' last year. Promoting him to main striker this year, only to get the same goal return is a calamity in my opinion, and the main reason Adebayor is the shit form that he is.

Sandro might have shown glimpses of improvement earlier in the season but he's now out for a protracted period of time, and there's no guarantee he'll come out of it the same player that he was. For evidence of what a long term injury can do to a player you needn't look any further than Ekotto who is nowhere near the confidence and form now that he was before he got injured.

Bale has improved. Don't think even Lynk and Plissken would dispute that.

But that's it. There's no great improvement whatsoever overall. The biggest positive is that they didn't regress after losing Modric, but the league position is flattering, and mainly down to Arsenal being utter scheiße, and Chelsea letting a manager recreate a Disney cartoon.

Any triumphalism on their part will be premature, regardless of how the season finishes, and the real test for that team will be the upcoming string of difficult fixtures.
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My point was that their squad isn't weaker. They have Kaboul and Vertonghen, Friedal and Lloris, so this kind of proves my point. I'd prefer the squad strength and potential of Holtby, Sugurdsson and Dempsey vs VDV.

Of course Sandro might not be the same player, but that doesn't really have an effect on my point. Bale could get hit by a bus tomorrow and Spurs would be pretty shit, it's not really something you can judge their squad strength on, as it stands Sandro is a potential future Spurs captain.

The biggest testament to Spurs in my opinion is that their midfield looks arguably just as good this season as it did last season, despite losing a £30m player. I think this is partly due to a massive overrating of Modric, but that is by-the-by.

Bale has been an outstanding player this season and his improvement alone outweighs anyone else being worse.
 
TheReligion said:
I see your point, but I would still take Boateng, VDV and Pienaar over Dempsey, Siguardsson and Adebayor
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I don't think it's a massive difference, especially if you take Sandro into consideration too. Bear in mind VDV/Pienaar are both 30 compared to Sandro/Sigardsson being 23.

Moonwalker said:
You gotta make your mind up between "isn't weaker" and "huge increase in talent".
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A huge increase in talent vs their squad 3-4 years ago - not last season.
 
Moonwalker said:
Three years ago they were in the Champions League and their squad looked much like last season.
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Our main starting 11 3 seasons ago was

Gomes
Corluka
Dawson
Bassong
BAE
Lennon
Palacios
Huddlestone
Modric
Defoe
Crouch

Our starting 11 now would be

Lloris
Walker
Kaboul/Dawson
Vertonghen
BAE
Sandro
Dembele
Lennon
Bale
Siggy/Holtby/Dempsey
Adebayor/Defoe

An upgrade in most positions.
 
africanspur said:
Our main starting 11 3 seasons ago was

Gomes
Corluka
Dawson
Bassong
BAE
Lennon
Palacios
Huddlestone
Modric
Defoe
Crouch

Our starting 11 now would be

Lloris
Walker
Kaboul/Dawson
Vertonghen
BAE
Sandro
Dembele
Lennon
Bale
Siggy/Holtby/Dempsey
Adebayor/Defoe

An upgrade in most positions.
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That's right I was thinking of the next season.
 
TheReligion said:
I see your point, but I would still take Boateng, VDV and Pienaar over Dempsey, Siguardsson and Adebayor
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Pienaar is a very good player but he just, for whatever reason, didn't fit into Spurs and it was obvious that it wasn't going to work for him here.

VDV wanted to go back to Germany.

KPB back then wasn't the same player as he is now.
 
Gomes
Hutton
Dawson
Gallas
BAE

Palacios
Modric
Lennon
VDV
Bale
Crouch

Again, an upgrade in most position imo.
 
finneh said:
....
Their biggest problem is that they are going to always struggle to concrete themselves into the top 4, because they don't have the turnover to back up a top 4 team. Chelsea, United, Arsenal, City and Liverpool all have higher turnovers and Spurs will only fall further behind when Arsenal's current sponsorship deals run out, probably adding £50m. This problem will be multiplied if they build a new stadium.
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How do you conclude that our turnover would fall further behind with a new stadium? A new stadium will mean a massive increase in matchday revenues.
 
africanspur said:
Gomes
Hutton
Dawson
Gallas
BAE

Palacios
Modric
Lennon
VDV
Bale
Crouch

Again, an upgrade in most position imo.
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Well let's split hairs, shall we(and derail the thread some more).

It was really Hutton/Corluka wasn't it, which isn't that far off from Walker/Naughton, even though Walker is admittedly the best of the bunch.

Kaboul, even though he was yet to hit form was still on the books, and available as an option. And although you were limited in how much you could use him, you still could rely on King, a better defender when fit than any of the others you had/have.

If you're gonna say Boateng is a better player now, then you should likewise consider how much better say Palacios was back then.

Van der Vaart is better than any of the players you currently have that can play in that position.

Your striker option was Crouch, who I still think is better suited to playing the lone man up front than Defoe(whom you have to count as an option back then as well), as well as having another good back-up in Pavlyuchenko who was as good a sub striker as a club of that level can have(you wouldn't have even made it to the cl group stages if it weren't for that guy).

Modric is a better player than Dembele, even though the latter has done great this season.

I'm sorry I just can't agree that this team is an upgrade at all, let alone 'in most positions'.
 
Moonwalker said:
Well let's split hairs, shall we(and derail the thread some more).

It was really Hutton/Corluka wasn't it, which isn't that far off from Walker/Naughton, even though Walker is admittedly the best of the bunch.

Kaboul, even though he was yet to hit form was still on the books, and available as an option. And although you were limited in how much you could use him, you still could rely on King, a better defender when fit than any of the others you had/have.

If you're gonna say Boateng is a better player now, then you should likewise consider how much better say Palacios was back then.

Van der Vaart is better than any of the players you currently have that can play in that position.

Your striker option was Crouch, who I still think is better suited to playing the lone man up front than Defoe(whom you have to count as an option back then as well), as well as having another good back-up in Pavlyuchenko who was as good a sub striker as a club of that level can have(you wouldn't have even made it to the cl group stages if it weren't for that guy).

Modric is a better player than Dembele, even though the latter has done great this season.

I'm sorry I just can't agree that this team is an upgrade at all, let alone 'in most positions'.
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Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Kaboul, Sandro and Bale are all certainly upgrades when everyone is fit. King is better than any defender we have now but King managed to whip out 6 league performances that season. I stopped considering King a part of the squad and started seeing him as a happy option we could sometimes luckily draft in.

My point wasn't to compare KPB with himself but with KPB of that season with the squad players that season. Palacios was excellent that season but still nothing on Sandro.

VDV better than what we have now.

Strikers much better than what we have now, though not great themselves either and haven't been since Berbatov left.

Modric is a better player than Dembele but we've done about as well as we could have done to replace him imo. The trick with a club at our level is to not always try to replace such players like for like. You don't necessarily need a Modric type player in this league and as long as you change the way you play, you can get away with replacing them and spreading more responsibility around the team.
 
GlastonSpur said:
How do you conclude that our turnover would fall further behind with a new stadium? A new stadium will mean a massive increase in matchday revenues.
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You misunderstand. The cost implications of a new stadium will limit your spending severely at a time when Arsenal's purse-strings will be substantially loosened due to their debt obligations (and their top heavy low value sponsorship deals) being concluded.
 
africanspur said:
Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Kaboul, Sandro and Bale are all certainly upgrades when everyone is fit. King is better than any defender we have now but King managed to whip out 6 league performances that season. I stopped considering King a part of the squad and started seeing him as a happy option we could sometimes luckily draft in.

My point wasn't to compare KPB with himself but with KPB of that season with the squad players that season. Palacios was excellent that season but still nothing on Sandro.

VDV better than what we have now.

Strikers much better than what we have now, though not great themselves either and haven't been since Berbatov left.

Modric is a better player than Dembele but we've done about as well as we could have done to replace him imo. The trick with a club at our level is to not always try to replace such players like for like. You don't necessarily need a Modric type player in this league and as long as you change the way you play
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You did superb to replace Modric, and when a club loses their best player it's quite a feat even to just 'stand still'. But that's all you're doing though.

There's an illusion of improvement, created by the nosedive your rivals took, and the jury is out on squad strength.

We don't disagree, much. But, you've lost me with this:
you can get away with replacing them and spreading more responsibility around the team.
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You're more dependent one a single guy now surely, than ever before.
 
Moonwalker said:
You did superb to replace Modric, and when a club loses their best player it's quite a feat even to just 'stand still'. But that's all you're doing though.

There's an illusion of improvement, created by the nosedive your rivals took, and the jury is out on squad strength.

We don't disagree, much. But, you've lost me with this:


You're more dependent one a single guy now surely, than ever before.
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I've said in another thread that we have actually gained points so far this season, both in terms of the direct fixture vs fixture comparison, as well as 28th week points last season vs this season. This is completely independent of our rivals' performances (Chelsea btw have also gained points in both areas compared to last season).

Without doubt we have been very reliant on Bale's attacking contributions over the past few months (the defence has been chugging along just fine, 12 conceded in the last 15 games), though part of it is the manager simply setting up the team to get the best out of the best player/player most in form, like any other team. Its funny how short memories we have though because just 2 months ago, when Bale was scoring at the normal rate he's been scoring at over the past few seasons, no-one was saying we're dependent on Bale. But we've been around 4th spot all season long.
 
Moonwalker said:
Well let's split hairs, shall we(and derail the thread some more).

It was really Hutton/Corluka wasn't it, which isn't that far off from Walker/Naughton, even though Walker is admittedly the best of the bunch.

Kaboul, even though he was yet to hit form was still on the books, and available as an option. And although you were limited in how much you could use him, you still could rely on King, a better defender when fit than any of the others you had/have.

If you're gonna say Boateng is a better player now, then you should likewise consider how much better say Palacios was back then.

Van der Vaart is better than any of the players you currently have that can play in that position.

Your striker option was Crouch, who I still think is better suited to playing the lone man up front than Defoe(whom you have to count as an option back then as well), as well as having another good back-up in Pavlyuchenko who was as good a sub striker as a club of that level can have(you wouldn't have even made it to the cl group stages if it weren't for that guy).

Modric is a better player than Dembele, even though the latter has done great this season.

I'm sorry I just can't agree that this team is an upgrade at all, let alone 'in most positions'.
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Spurs are a better team this year, and I mean team in the literal sense. They are a better unit despite losing Modric
 
africanspur said:
I've said in another thread that we have actually gained points so far this season, both in terms of the direct fixture vs fixture comparison, as well as 28th week points last season vs this season. This is completely independent of our rivals' performances (Chelsea btw have also gained points in both areas compared to last season).
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Well that's something of a weasel word. You have 54 points now, you had 53 this time last year.

And if it be deemed that they are better as a team then the fact that they have virtually the same number of points could only be accounted for if they were worse in terms of individual quality.
 
577945_10200708704779970_449746186_n.jpg


This been posted yet ? :lol:
 
Not really that funny because Bale was just average when he signed for Spurs and couldn't put a foot down in the league.

His development has been nothing short of brilliant.
 
That and others have been posted various times and I agree with Jaap, it's not like what he's become changes history, he had poor start to his Spuds career. 20/20 hindsight is easy.
 
Jaap said:
Not really that funny because Bale was just average when he signed for Spurs and couldn't put a foot down in the league.

His development has been nothing short of brilliant.
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He had a brilliant start to his Spurs career, but then got injured and struggled with fitness for the next year. He made his debut against us as a left winger (not fullback) and was their best player on the day. Under Jol he played as a winger and a fullback. But when he got injured and Ramos took over. When Redknapp took over, he was out of the side, but once BAE got injured and he got his chance, he was fantastic.

Yahoo took the average ratings given to players in all the major newspapers and Gareth Bale got the highest average for the 2009/10 season. But he only played 18 games and you needed 19 to win their POTY award. The following year he won PFA POTY. When people act as if he's only recently become top class, it's absolute rubbish. He's been fantastic for a few years, but he's now added goals to his game, so it's become impossible for his detractors to keep denying how good he is. I think the issue was that many resented him winning the POTY award in 2010/11. Very few people seem to be aware of just how brilliant his form had been at both LB and LW for a year prior to the Inter game. It often seems as if people think he won POTY off the back of that Inter game, but it just isn't the case.
 
redmeister said:
.... Yahoo took the average ratings given to players in all the major newspapers and Gareth Bale got the highest average for the 2009/10 season. But he only played 18 games and you needed 19 to win their POTY award. The following year he won PFA POTY. When people act as if he's only recently become top class, it's absolute rubbish. He's been fantastic for a few years, but he's now added goals to his game, so it's become impossible for his detractors to keep denying how good he is. I think the issue was that many resented him winning the POTY award in 2010/11. Very few people seem to be aware of just how brilliant his form had been at both LB and LW for a year prior to the Inter game. It often seems as if people think he won POTY off the back of that Inter game, but it just isn't the case.
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Exactly so. Moreover it was very clear how talented he was from his time with Southampton ... which is why both Spurs and MUFC went for him.
 
He's a twat and a half. Both their goals came as a result of his play acting.

He shouldn't have even been allowed to run back onto the pitch for their first.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
He's a twat and a half. Both their goals came as a result of his play acting.

He shouldn't have even been allowed to run back onto the pitch for their first.
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And you won the game courtesy of playacting by the biggest cnut in football. And how Gerrard stayed on the pitch is beyond me.
 
Sixpence said:
And you won the game courtesy of playacting by the biggest cnut in football. And how Gerrard stayed on the pitch is beyond me.
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I wouldn't call it play acting if even AVB admits it was a penalty.

What on earth did Gerrard do to deserve a red card?
 
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