Their motivation isn't to stop people from eating meat or to make different consumer choices. They're campaigning to 'Insulate Britain' because even though it would be a small piece in reducing carbon emissions in the grand scheme of things they believe it's a realistic achievable aim that would make some difference. They see it as a way of tangibly making a difference.
Insulate Britain Protests
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's something I've heard as well although I would have to look it up tbh. Regardless if it's a few thousand large businesses or not, the main driver of climate change is a world economic market system based on the never ending need for profit and growth, which we all have to take part in. Imo without any change to that main driver, all discussion around climate change is a bit useless.
Although easier said than done.
But that seems to be the effect it's having on some individuals. They come across as just another climate protest group(Pretty sure they are a off spit of extinction rebellion)and tbh I'm not sure what blocking roads and stopping people going to work has to do with insulating people homes(If they are going to protest wouldn't it be better to protest landlords/property developers or just bad housing conditions in general ?).
It seems like a lot of time and abuse to get a pretty meaningless reform(In the grand scheme of things)when they could just be a lobby group in westminster.
They may well be pissing in the wind but their aim is to bring a realistic specific policy to fruition through their protests rather than the grand narrative and wacky manifesto approach of a group like Extinction Rebellion.
You're right. I just feel sorry for the old people there. They really shouldn't have to put with this level of abuse.
True. It's not nice seeing old folks getting ink thrown on them.
Would it shut them up if I started wearing a thick jumper instead?
I agree with this. I like the idea of protests with such a specific, tangible goal. And I think it’s a goal worth fighting for. But I’m not a fan of tactics which creates so much conflict between protestors and ordinary people.
Although they would probably argue that desperate times etc
Console yourself that they’re probably Tory Brexiteers
If their aim is to bring a realistic policy then they should have realistic plans/proposals to back it up, and they don't.
They are using convenience arguments and completely ignoring factors like embodied carbon and issues with construction which make "insulating" homes not as straight forward as is being implied.
They're no less whacky than extinction rebellion because they're just doing exactly the same thing. Moaning about a problem without having any solution or even idea how to actually fix it.
They are taking away from climate issues because now we have people in Westminster who instead of working on energy saving legislation are working on legislation to stop idiots blocking motorways.
It's a matter of time before their behaviour results in someone losing their life and at that point the government and police will come down on them and any other similar climate protesters like a sledgehammer.
Stuff like this also means protesting is becoming more and more meaningless because people seem now to just do it as an excuse of having something to do.
Wasn't there are story recently of them blocking a road while an ambulance was trying to get by ? Stuff like that along with the fact they are causing people to be late for work will just kill any goodwill that is needed for these protests to work. Agree with you that they would say in such desperate time there isn't a line but also then why push for such basic reforms ?
It seems like a mess tbh.
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if they all voted Tory in the last election. Honestly maybe it's just the media I've seen but a lot them do seems like older folk feeling guilty that their generation didn't tackle the issue we are facing today. Which again is admirable(And they are going more than most people including myself)but like it's not how change happens.
There a ‘would you take Graham Potter thread’ in the United forum and Sweet Square sticking up for the OAPs in the CE.Wasn't there are story recently of them blocking a road while an ambulance was trying to get by ? Stuff like that along with the fact they are causing people to be late for work will just kill any goodwill that is needed for these protests to work. Agree with you that they would say in such desperate time there isn't a line but also then why push for such basic reforms ?
It seems like a mess tbh.
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if they all voted Tory in the last election. Honestly maybe it's just the media I've seen but a lot them do seems like older folk feeling guilty that their generation didn't tackle the issue we are facing today. Which again is admirable(And they are going more than most people including myself)but like it's not how change happens.
Im going to go have a lie down, something definitely not right with this new medication
Exactly that. And whatever ones views, you can not argue that they have not raised the profile of this issue.
Old saying but perfectly true.
You cannot make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. And personally, I support them.
For example. Heat pumps will be next to useless in a poorly insulated house.
Under communism I believe a gulag with a human face for all the insulate Britain OAPs!
Ahh thanks now I’m back in the room
Why would they want goodwill? You talk about tangible stuff and actually doing something, but not goodwill will do nothing against climate change. Goodwill also isn't needed for protests to work, MLK got vastly more unpopular among white people as the Civil Right Movement went on, they still got shit done. You don't protest to convince people, you protest to excert political power, to motivate, etc.
Does anyone believe it makes a difference though? Didn't the spokesman fail to insulate his own home?
I believe goodwill matters, otherwise people won't give a shit about what you're doing. I don't believe you can draw comparisons betweens MLK and insulate Britain. Because the Civil rights were about not treating black people as 2nd class citizens while the climate issue is far more complex.
Plenty of bodies claim that insulating lofts with loft roll is a cheap way to reduce carbon emissions by reducing gas use in homes. @noodlehair says not. I’m no expert on the matter.
I kind of mean in the grand scheme of things. I'm not an expert either. Essentially all of this requires everyone almost in the whole word dancing to the same tune in a complex world of energy, power and wealth and I don't see it happening.
https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/
Their aim isn’t the grand scheme. Their ethos is to actually make a tangible difference even if it’s small. I’m not arguing for their aims but this is what they are.
Their message ultimately isn't a bad one - insulating homes is a good idea, but it's costly and inconvenient if the home is already built.
The way they're going about it is just pissing people off. I know they have to probably do that to make enough noise - but go annoy Westminster instead of the general public.
The way they're going about it is just pissing people off. I know they have to probably do that to make enough noise - but go annoy Westminster instead of the general public.
Was thinking about this.. if a patient dies because they don’t receive treatment in time due to Insulate Britain intentionally blocking the ambulance path, surely that’s a criminal charge
Insulate Britain is a tiny group of activists demanding a certain housing policy where as the civil rights movement had a social base which was historical marginalised group(Along with a supportive younger college white base)and demand fundamental changes to how the US worked as a country worked. The end goal of Insulate Britain will be for it's policy to be part of a party manifesto at the next election, so they will need their policy to be popular enough for both a political party to adopt and to appeal to voters. All of this requires good will and from the polling I've seen they are failing.
Because how does stopping people from going to work or stopping emergency services from working motivate people to join a political cause ? What political power are they exerting other than stopping individuals from getting to work ? And how does any of this connect with wanting to insulate homes in Britain ? Also a lot of what this group has said is just bizarre. One guy said it worth getting hit by a car and die over what is a extremely basic policy and in another interview I saw one of the protests put forward the idea that stopping traffic on the M25 is stopping the climate crisis.
Atm it seems to be a group of well meaning but misguided people.
If reaching the end goal is the bar then the Civil Rights Movement was a spectacular failure, because they didn't. The Movement didn't achieve equality, not even close, but it was a success still because they achieved a lot. Of course Insulate Britain can't be compared in scope, but it's a success if more homes are insulated.
I can make a comparison in a completely different direction. Over here we have an anti-Muslim group that regularly protests. Their end goal varies, for most it's a complete stop to Muslim immigration, for a lot it involves deportations, and for a sizable bunch it's not really about religion but about colour. They won't reach that goal, and they're seen as pathetic people by most. What they do achieve, however, is to help keep people talking about Muslim immigration. They're pretty damn effective for such a small and loathed group, even if what they achieve is just to draw some votes to the right and get people to harass Muslims rather than the deportations and killings they want.
And being disruptive is a fundamental part of protests. I'm very surprised you're questioning this. You don't think the marches from Selma to Montgomery stopped a lot of traffic and made it more difficult to go to work?
Which country are you from out of curiosity?
It's kind of off-topic, but as far as I understand the aim of Civil Rights movement wasn't about total equality, but simply equality before the law and they suceeded in that. But that might simply be my ignorance showing here.
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Starting to protest a bit further North now, blocking off the A38 this morning into Manchester Airport - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59133016
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/insulate-britain-high-court-sentenced/
9 of the protesters jailed for between 3 and 6 months. You have to admire them, being willing to face the consequences of their actions now.
9 of the protesters jailed for between 3 and 6 months. You have to admire them, being willing to face the consequences of their actions now.
I really don't get this protest movement.
On the one hand, they're message about insulating buildings is entirely relatable and reasonable. But on the other hand, their methods are about as antagonising and unreasonable as it gets.
I'm no PR expert. But it seems to me that their engagement with the public is totally muddled. You couldn't call them the 'good guys' because they're not nice enough. And you couldn't describe them as the 'radical guys' because they're not demanding enough.
All they seem to have achieved is to get half the country to hate them and the other half to ignore them. Either way, nobody's listening.
On the one hand, they're message about insulating buildings is entirely relatable and reasonable. But on the other hand, their methods are about as antagonising and unreasonable as it gets.
I'm no PR expert. But it seems to me that their engagement with the public is totally muddled. You couldn't call them the 'good guys' because they're not nice enough. And you couldn't describe them as the 'radical guys' because they're not demanding enough.
All they seem to have achieved is to get half the country to hate them and the other half to ignore them. Either way, nobody's listening.
That’s right but I think whatever method they will use half of the country will still hate them. Look al Thunberg for instance.
Thunberg's riding the wave of bigger and better defined movements that preceded her. But that's by the by.
You can make progress even if some of the country hates you as long as others support you.
The issue for Insulate Britain is that they can't even generate the support.
Yes I agree about that.
Has this been fast-tracked through the courts?
It does take courage to endure that level of abuse and quite a few of them look like the most inoffensive and mild-mannered elderly people you'd ever see. I do admire the dedication even if the cause is misguided and counter productive
Glad that they got sent to jail.
I guess if you are 60+ and not worrying about your next job then why should you care too much. Not like youd get shanked in the showers or anything unless your protest held up a getaway driver
Equally I hope this dissuades a few “let’s join in for the laugh” people that no doubt would get dragged along otherwise.
Glad that they got sent to jail.
I guess if you are 60+ and not worrying about your next job then why should you care too much. Not like youd get shanked in the showers or anything unless your protest held up a getaway driver
Equally I hope this dissuades a few “let’s join in for the laugh” people that no doubt would get dragged along otherwise.
Putting aside their actions, or their tactics, and just speaking about the cause.
Do you agree with the cause?
They cant show that the massive carbon cost in insulating existing homes would be offset by the saving, so no.
Like a lot of hippy dippy causes, there's no hard numbers or science behind it. Reminds me of the sort of people who vociferously protest nuclear power, most of whom couldnt tell you the first thing about nuclear power except that it has the word nuclear in it.
Its a reasonable cause, but should be a long way down the list of things to give a shit about climate wise.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60290876
Articles like this make me think there was a bit of a hatchet job by the media on this subject, turning everyone against these protesters.
Articles like this make me think there was a bit of a hatchet job by the media on this subject, turning everyone against these protesters.
nah they accomplished that themselves by acting like a bunch of cnuts