Is it fair to worship Guardiola at this point? | The Ball Did It

What's your take on Guardiola?

  • The best manager in the world

    Votes: 13 1.9%

  • One of the best managers in the world, with flaws like everyone else

    Votes: 179 26.6%

  • A very good manager with some serious limitations

    Votes: 186 27.6%

  • A good manager who has been successful only because he's had exceptional teams

    Votes: 237 35.2%

  • A total fraud

    Votes: 58 8.6%
  • Total voters
    673
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
padr81 said:
Yet we haven't played a single game we didn't deserve to win, where we haven't outshot, had more chances and controlled the game vs the opposition.
We were there for the taking on Wednesday night and we were taken. The only game this season we've been outplayed and guess what, the team who actually outplayed us beat us. In not a single other game this season has this happened. Napoli away is the only other game we didn't absolutely control start to finish, to say anything else is lies.

As I said earlier this is City and we might conspire to feck it up, but lets not pretend any team in England has deserved to beat us our outplayed us this season so far anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm new here and want to give kudos to a city fan coming on here with some incisive comment.
My thoughts ...City are undoubted quality but I'm not buyng into this mantra ...city are the greatest premier league team ever to grace the game wnak fest BS. Seen some saying that but nah not yet that title is still Fergie's Utd 1998-9 or 2007-8 or even Arsene's invincibles. Nothing I've seen today changes that. A champions league/ league double for the Blues and I'll revisit this post....

But reality had Lukaku not been a complete twat with that glorious opportunity to make it 2-2 the team that would have went up another gear was Utd. But of course he did fluff his lines and the effect on not just the team but the whole of Old Trafford of that fluffed line was profound, heads down and game over after that... Too much ground to make up even at 2-2. Yeah now we'll never know but deserved or not (I suggest on balance not city just better simples) had it went in as it should have then we'd have got another.

One positive take away from this I hope above all is that Lukaku will know he needs to take a long look at himself... is he happy living up to the expectations of the "...only against the smaller teams" crowd? I hope not but he is proving them right at every turn so far.

I think the premier league suffered for today's result in my opinion. Hope you can shed a few points over the winter and make it exciting again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveJ
padr81 said:
Easily avoidable but was a 0-0 at home when 8 pts down to your title rival really acceptable. Ask yourself would any other top manager like Conte, Ancelotti, Klopp have set out like today to not lose. Simone maybe but that's it imho.
Click to expand...
I take it you didnt see what Conte did at the Bridge vs that same opponent whilst at full strength? And United set up to win. They didnt account for Lukaku twice shooting them in the foot and adding insult to injury by missing an absolute sitter....
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Sorry you meant Guardiola, yeah he might do but a few things have to go wrong for him in the UK. Currently he has the set up the exact way he wants at City it seems.
Click to expand...
Or he'll win for 1/2 seasons, and decide to bounce on a high and dovetail nicely with a PSG crazy money lure?
 
Member 5225 said:
Or he'll win for 1/2 seasons, and decide to bounce on a high and dovetail nicely with a PSG crazy money lure?
Click to expand...

It's extremely difficult to win back to back titles so hopefully that has an adverse effect on his players next year and he cracks up a bit. But we're clutching at straws here.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
I don't buy this nonsense that Guardiola isn't an adaptable manager. We saw today where they scored a couple of (albeit fortuitous) goals from set-pieces and then he brought on another CB to try and shut the game down.

Against Napoli, they sat deep and then swarmed forward on the counter attack in a manner more commonly associated with Mourinho sides.

At Bayern, there was a game against Dortmund where Bayern spent most of the first hour attempting long balls to Javi Martinez, who was playing a similar role to what Fellaini's been doing for us, until the game opened up and the trickier players like Gotze came on and won the game for Bayern.

Just a few examples off the top of my head but I'm always surprised when people say Guardiola doesn't adapt his team, when it's quite clear, if you've watched any of his sides over an extended period of time, that he does change things for certain matches and sometimes quite drastically, like using Javi Martinez as a targetman against Dortmund.
Click to expand...
Well football fans talk shit. Nothing really surprising.

A manager as successful and good as him would be adaptable. People can't or don't want to see what he does. People would point out when his team loses or struggles sometimes to prove their point while turning a blind eye to 8 out of 10 matches, he would dominate usually.

Football rivals and talking shit was fun when i was 16, not so much anymore. Sometimes, I feel like I am reading trump's supporters on football forums sometimes. So much delusion and full of shit.
 
arthurka said:
They didnt do anything brilliant today the won by grafting and getting the bit of luck needed.. We were really really bad for long periods today.. I agree he isnt really brilliant or a fraud he is just a really good manager who's team was smarter, hungrier and out fought us..
Click to expand...
Not just at you. To those who said something like oh they were not that good. We were ok at shutting them down.

Well, I do hope so because we are at least 2nd best team in the league and a jose's team who is excellent at parking the bus and shutting down the team completely. And we were at home.

I don't exactly find the comfort in saying that well they were not that good against us while then saying got outsmarted, out fought us and hungrier than us...

And again, this was at OT.
 
Whiteside '85 said:
I'm new here and want to give kudos to a city fan coming on here with some incisive comment.
My thoughts ...City are undoubted quality but I'm not buyng into this mantra ...city are the greatest premier league team ever to grace the game wnak fest BS. Seen some saying that but nah not yet that title is still Fergie's Utd 1998-9 or 2007-8 or even Arsene's invincibles. Nothing I've seen today changes that. A champions league/ league double for the Blues and I'll revisit this post....

But reality had Lukaku not been a complete twat with that glorious opportunity to make it 2-2 the team that would have went up another gear was Utd. But of course he did fluff his lines and the effect on not just the team but the whole of Old Trafford of that fluffed line was profound, heads down and game over after that... Too much ground to make up even at 2-2. Yeah now we'll never know but deserved or not (I suggest on balance not city just better simples) had it went in as it should have then we'd have got another.

One positive take away from this I hope above all is that Lukaku will know he needs to take a long look at himself... is he happy living up to the expectations of the "...only against the smaller teams" crowd? I hope not but he is proving them right at every turn so far.

I think the premier league suffered for today's result in my opinion. Hope you can shed a few points over the winter and make it exciting again.
Click to expand...

You are 100% right, we can't be considered a great team till we actually have trophies. I've said this many time, we have the premier leagues best ever start but thats it. Time will tell if we can reach the level of the prem's greatest teams but for now we are not even close on the greatest teams.

Not to belittle Arsenal but that invincibles team won 2 titles in 5 years so I wouldn't put them there. I'd have United 99-01, Uniteds treble winners 06-11 all well ahead of them. I would say they were a top team with a historical season just like City are even less atm, a top team with a historical start.

Again you are right on the Lukaku chance but I'd tend to say you'd have parked up again, nothing at 0-0 or 1-1 suggested you would try and kick on. Just my opinion.

Also nice to see a new poster on here discussing City fairly whose not just on a wind up (like a bunch on new posters on this forum including City fans). Its a great forum and you'll fit right in.
 
City have bought well by identifying their weaknesses, solidified their defense, and their attacking looks amazing. They’ll seal the title by early April I think.
 
padr81 said:
Not to belittle Arsenal but that invincibles team won 2 titles in 5 years so I wouldn't put them there.
Click to expand...

You don't want to "belittle" the Invincibles but you wouldn't put them among the greatest Premier League teams, even though, you know, they were the only ones to win the league undefeated? :lol:

You might want to study this entry https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belittle
 
Cristiano Lell said:
You don't want to "belittle" the Invincibles but you wouldn't put them among the greatest Premier League teams, even though, you know, they were the only ones to win the league undefeated? :lol:

You might want to study this entry https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belittle
Click to expand...

It was an amazing achievement but the 2 seasons either side of it suggest it was the premier leagues greatest season as opposed to its greatest team. Its not rocket science.
 
padr81 said:
You are 100% right, we can't be considered a great team till we actually have trophies. I've said this many time, we have the premier leagues best ever start but thats it. Time will tell if we can reach the level of the prem's greatest teams but for now we are not even close on the greatest teams.

Not to belittle Arsenal but that invincibles team won 2 titles in 5 years so I wouldn't put them there. I'd have United 99-01, Uniteds treble winners 06-11 all well ahead of them. I would say they were a top team with a historical season just like City are even less atm, a top team with a historical start.

Again you are right on the Lukaku chance but I'd tend to say you'd have parked up again, nothing at 0-0 or 1-1 suggested you would try and kick on. Just my opinion.

Also nice to see a new poster on here discussing City fairly whose not just on a wind up (like a bunch on new posters on this forum including City fans). Its a great forum and you'll fit right in.
Click to expand...
Cheers, not sure I picked our greatest moment to jump in but into the fire so to speak... Think my newness was found out here as this is a discussion abut Pep.. is he great.. well yes of course he is and I for one wanted him at Old Trafford. But I think too many fans are forgetting just what Mourinho has achieved after the Moyes/ LVG era. He was alwys my 2nd choice, has and will bring us trophies. Fact there isn't anyone better out there but that is also my opinion. We'll differ on the last point I think Old Trafford roar would have kicked the lads on... but not to be and to be honest City up to this evening deserve to be where they are maybe 2-4 points better off thn you shuld be? But playing like champions.
But do the Prem a favour drop a few quick. Or its gonna get boring...
 
Despite being dependent on having a significantly better squad vs competition to deliver success, there are 2 points on which Guardiola deserves credit:

1. He has stayed true to his beliefs and recreated his method in the Premier League.
2. He has done so with a completely new set of players, and not had to buy in previous proven players.

When he wins the league this season, he will have proven that his 'algorithm' works wherever league he chooses to apply it, with the huge caveat that he has the best players and the most money.
 
Doing a world class job at the moment. Fair play to him, can't really criticise much.
 
sammsky1 said:
significantly better squad
Click to expand...

He has a pretty normal squad actually.

Today's lineup:

Ederson
Walker, Otamendi, Kompany, Delph
Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Silva
Sterling, Sane, Jesus

Which of these players would be considered top 5 in the world in their respective positions without a doubt? De Bruyne? Maybe Silva? That's it. He doesn't have a super team. A good one but not a super team. It's his tactics and management that get the results.
 
Cait Sith said:
He has a pretty normal squad actually.

Today's lineup:

Ederson
Walker, Otamendi, Kompany, Delph
Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Silva
Sterling, Sane, Jesus

Which of these players would be considered top 5 in the world in their respective positions without a doubt? De Bruyne? Maybe Silva? That's it. He doesn't have a super team. A good one but not a super team. It's his tactics and management that get the results.
Click to expand...
Never really looked at it that way and you're right none of those players really stick out apart for De Bruyne and Silva. Although they have two of the best prospects in Sane and Jesus.
 
The United said:
Not just at you. To those who said something like oh they were not that good. We were ok at shutting them down.

Well, I do hope so because we are at least 2nd best team in the league and a jose's team who is excellent at parking the bus and shutting down the team completely. And we were at home.

I don't exactly find the comfort in saying that well they were not that good against us while then saying got outsmarted, out fought us and hungrier than us...

And again, this was at OT.
Click to expand...
Agree with this we where shambolic but City didn't do any wonders we were just so bad.. This games tells me more where we are atm than City.. It's sad to see us focusing on trying to stop other teams from playing than to focus on our game..
 
If he manages to beat an inform Real Madrid over two legs or Barca then yeah. He'd have turned a team who couldn't get out the group stages and made them big boy contenders.
 
MrMarcello said:
The one difference on Mo's CV compared to Pep's CV is the former built up a superior side with a small budget and conquered Portugal and Europe for two consecutive seasons. I'd like to see Pep do such though he never will.
Click to expand...
That's kind of an irrelevant skill to have when managing utd in 2017.

We need whoever is the best checkbook manager working with a big budget.
 
MrMarcello said:
The one difference on Mo's CV compared to Pep's CV is the former built up a superior side with a small budget and conquered Portugal and Europe for two consecutive seasons. I'd like to see Pep do such though he never will.
Click to expand...

Never understood this. The climate of football has completely changed since Porto won the CL. Mourinho benefited from massive luck and the fact that it was the worst quality champions league in history. Bar when he beat a shit united side with our goal being disallowed, he faced Lyon, Depor and AS Monaco in the final. European giants all were utter rubbish.

In this current era you have super teams like Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid reaching the Cl semis almost every year. If Mourinho played with a lower team TODAY he would not win the cl either. Saying Pep needs to do it makes no sense. I doubt we will ever see a CL so bad in quality ever again.
 
Last edited:
Schneckerl said:
That's kind of an irrelevant skill to have when managing utd in 2017.

We need whoever is the best checkbook manager working with a big budget.
Click to expand...

Guardiola would not have Utd in the same shape as he has City.

The Utd squad has been mismanaged for 5-6 years. SAF didnt replace the old guard, and then Moyes and LVG replaced the old guard with squad players. Add to this that we have had a lot of injuries/suspensions this season and it makes it worse.

We would have asked a lot of questions to this city team with Pogba in the midfield. But we had Herrera who has been ban average this season.
 
gibers said:
Never understood this. The climate of football has completely changed since Porto won the CL. Mourinho benefited from massive luck and the fact that it was the worst quality champions league in history. Bar when he beat a shit united side with our goal being disallowed, he faced Lyon, Depor and AS Monaco in the final. European giants all were utter rubbish.

In this current era you have super teams like Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid reaching the Cl semis almost every year. If Mourinho played with a lower team TODAY he would not win the cl either. Saying Pep needs to do it makes no sense. I doubt we will ever see a CL so bad in quality ever again.
Click to expand...

Blah blah. If one wants to bitch about luck/goals the same can apply to Pep's 2009 Barca side vs Chelsea. It can apply to just about any cup winning side in any given competition in any given year.

Ranieri won a league title in one of the top leagues in the world with limited resources, and in today's climate, as did Klopp - who also took his side to a major continental final to boot. Managers can achieve things without unlimited purse strings, and that applies to both Mourinho and Pep (despite the latter never having done such).

I never said "Pep needs to do it" but nice straw man.
 
Just a well paid manager having his moment! Exactly like Conte of last year, Pellegrini a few seasons ago, etc.

There's certainly no mystique to it. Manage a top team for a few seasons and win a title, walk on to the next, higher paid, post and win a title (within a few years). Pretty much the same as most top managers, including Mourinho.

Unfortunately, the age of managers wanting to create a legacy has gone. There's only been one top manager, in the modern era, who managed to win time and again, no matter what the circumstances or level of opposition. We all know he'd be up there right now, picking and poking, just waiting to pounce.
 
MrMarcello said:
Blah blah. If one wants to bitch about luck/goals the same can apply to Pep's 2009 Barca side vs Chelsea. It can apply to just about any cup winning side in any given competition in any given year.

Ranieri won a league title in one of the top league's in the world with limited resources, and in today's climate, as did Klopp. Managers can achieve things without unlimited purse strings, and that applies to both Mourinho and Pep (despite the latter never having done such).

I never said "Pep needs to do it" but nice straw man.
Click to expand...


The premier league doesn't have a super team so a team like Leicester can win it. The was the worst that season since it's inception. Mourinho won't win shit with a Porto in this current climate. Leicester winning the EPL is a damning indictment on the EPl if anything.
 
sammsky1 said:
Despite being dependent on having a significantly better squad vs competition to deliver success, there are 2 points on which Guardiola deserves credit:

1. He has stayed true to his beliefs and recreated his method in the Premier League.
2. He has done so with a completely new set of players, and not had to buy in previous proven players.

When he wins the league this season, he will have proven that his 'algorithm' works wherever league he chooses to apply it, with the huge caveat that he has the best players and the most money.
Click to expand...

This. Might had that the players he has could be considered to be naturally pre-disposed to playing husband brand of football.
 
Someone wrote about how much City has spent since the Sheiks took over, but we also have to look how much has been spent since Fergie went, and we are still no nearer winning the league. I know it was spent with different managers, but De Gea and possibly Pogba aside, how many others would get into a first 11 of the big clubs around the world? Without De Gea, where would we have finished over the last 4 seasons?
 
Its just painful, it's his time. He's got a wickedly incisive football mind, he's giving everything he has to the game, effectively has billions of pounds to his name to splurge on whomever, players take it as a major compliment if he wants to sign them, his philosophy/formula copies and pastes fine in this era, and he has that aura and eccentricity (think Clough, Shankly, early Mourinho) that make him untouchable in his own mind. It's all some nightmare virtuous circle working in City's favor.
 
Infordin said:
What does this even mean...
Click to expand...

I think what he means is that Pep was brought to Bayern to win the CL. They win the Bundesliga by default almost every season, they didn't need Pep for that. They brought him as a CL specialist and he failed in doing so.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
For me Guardiola is fantastic. What he is doing so far at City for me is superior to the turn around he instilled in the squad rijkaard left him at barca. He has made a marked improvement of the quality and belief of most of the players under him at City. On top of adjusting tactics to the league.
Click to expand...

I thought he would struggle to get the best out of KDB and David Silva playing them in midfield. And they would lack the balance to win the league. I am looking like an idiot so far(but, that is normal for me).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.