Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

[Synco]

i said she should be kicked out, but if that's really the worst case of white supremacy in labour it's honestly not as bad as i expected, and not even a tenth of what it's been made out be

You've just done it again.

Here's what's been reported about the article under that picture:

Incog Man is a far-right website, which shares all manner of racist and homophobic material. The picture Kayla Bibby shared came from a 2016 post on the site, titled: “Bloodsucking Alien Parasites Killing America.”

So, who are these parasites, according to the Neo-Nazi writer? Well, black people, for a start – one particularly foul passage says: “Blacks are now HUGE parasites in White countries…They are still bilking the slavery guilt BS, even though few White people have any ancestry involved.”

It goes on to spew bile about “the black race’s criminal nature” and claims that “our once beautiful cities are filled with lazy-ass, criminal blacks sucking beaucoup dineros from America’s bottom line.”

But, for the foul author, the real parasites are Jews. As he writes: “Blacks don’t hold a candle to the parasitic, Whitish looking, chameleon Jew… Just like the continuously changing or mutating HIV virus, Jews are the virus that destroyed the proactive, protective White T-cells of our body politic, while blacks are the “opportunistic” disease bacterium ravaging the system overall… The Jew virus first infected our digestive tract (the money-making apparatus or Federal Reserve) and then sent offspring out into the nervous system and up into the brain (the educational system and media) to blind and confuse us with a somnolent-inducing drug called “PC,” while keeping us from visiting the doctor (Hitler).”

Here's what you said about the picture:

oh my god that's literally the most racist thing that's ever happened i've changed my mind about everything and will be voting for boris johnson

of all the examples of antisemitism in the labour party, of all the follow up quotes etc you really have a talent for picking the dullest most benign shit in the world

I don't care if they kick her out, but if that's all it take to rise to "existential threat to british jewry" then I have bad news about the UK

And more. You had enough opportunity to retract these statements after the origins of that picture have been pointed out (not that this should have been needed), but you didn't. You have just repeated it above, knowing fully well what's at stake.

 

[Silva]

You've just done it again.

Here's what's been reported about the article under that picture:

Here's what you said about the picture:


And more. You had enough opportunity to retract these statements after the origins of that picture have been pointed out (not that this should have been needed), but you didn't. You have just repeated it above, knowing fully well what's at stake.

i said that to @Sassy Colin who i don't believe gives a shit about antisemitism and is a bad faith actor, i'd have been less brash to people who i think aren't bad faith actors

that was also before you posted the context which was left out of the original post, how many people here had ever heard of incog man before?

i also said ban her, and have said kick more people several times in this thread

but if images like that are all it takes for the labour party to be an "existential threat to british jewry" then, again, i have some bad news about the UK, there's significantly more callous and violent antisemitism in this country

if an antisemitic image about America/ & Israel is the absolute worst of it, even coming from white supremacists, it's really not as bad as you're going to find

 

[Sweet Square]

You can spell it out: apologism of Nazi propaganda.

I suggest you go back and read his posts.

Yes, that's what I was on about. As in: That kind of stuff is waved through unopposed.

There are other kinds of bigotry where there's no chance of this happening. By the way, you didn't just say nothing, you take his side against the criticism, in your usual degoratory tone.

Wtf is this shite ?

The reason I used a derogatory tone is because of your child like insistence that other posters should criticise something someone has said.

 

[2cents]

what's someone who thinks ethnostates are inherently racist supposed to do? shut up about it? give a long rambling pre-amble that's going to be ignored anyway?

At the very least, be consistent. If your problem is with ethno-states, you need to acknowledge that Israel is just one part of the problem in a region where pretty much every state defines itself along ethnic and/or religious lines. So your opposition to the proposed Palestinian state - which defines itself as both Arab and Islamic - and Palestinian nationalism should be made as clear as your opposition to Israel and Zionism.

What you probably shouldn’t do is play down, indulge, or in Corbyn’s case commemorate, all ugly manifestations of Palestinian nationalism while concurrently demonizing all manifestations, ugly or otherwise, of Zionism. Because that just makes it seem as if your opposition to ethno-states and nationalism is not really principled but conditional on which ethnic group or nation we are considering.

 

[ZupZup]

I don’t follow British politics close enough to answer. A good example of a principled activist who has advocated on behalf of Palestinian rights his entire life without being drawn towards the antisemitic gutter would be Peter Thatchell.

In fairness, Peter Tatchell has spoken at events about how he is trolled and called an anti-semite whenever he voices opinions in support of Palestine.

“Now, like many of you, whenever I do a tweet or a news release or a public statement in support of the Palestinian cause, which I’ve been in support of since the early 1970s, every single time the charge of anti- Semitism or racism will fly back at me. Even the most innocuous statements, even when I make a statement that is trying to reassure Jewish and Israeli people that they should have security, even then I’m being told that I’m not doing enough to support the Israeli cause.
So I’m trolled almost daily on Twitter by pro-Israelis who, as we’ve heard, will not accept even the slightest criticism of Israeli policy and seek to consistently turn around that criticism into the allegations of anti-Semitism.”

 

[2cents]

In fairness, Peter Tatchell has spoken at events about how he is trolled and called an anti-semite whenever he voices opinions in support of Palestine.

“Now, like many of you, whenever I do a tweet or a news release or a public statement in support of the Palestinian cause, which I’ve been in support of since the early 1970s, every single time the charge of anti- Semitism or racism will fly back at me. Even the most innocuous statements, even when I make a statement that is trying to reassure Jewish and Israeli people that they should have security, even then I’m being told that I’m not doing enough to support the Israeli cause.
So I’m trolled almost daily on Twitter by pro-Israelis who, as we’ve heard, will not accept even the slightest criticism of Israeli policy and seek to consistently turn around that criticism into the allegations of anti-Semitism.”

I’ve no doubt he’s telling the truth there. I consider myself a supporter of Israel, and I could make a long list of beliefs I hold that would have some Zionists describing me as an antisemite.

 

[SteveJ]

Incog Man is a far-right website, which shares all manner of racist and homophobic material. The picture Kayla Bibby shared came from a 2016 post on the site, titled: “Bloodsucking Alien Parasites Killing America.”

So, who are these parasites, according to the Neo-Nazi writer? Well, black people, for a start – one particularly foul passage says: “Blacks are now HUGE parasites in White countries…They are still bilking the slavery guilt BS, even though few White people have any ancestry involved.”

It goes on to spew bile about “the black race’s criminal nature” and claims that “our once beautiful cities are filled with lazy-ass, criminal blacks sucking beaucoup dineros from America’s bottom line.”

But, for the foul author, the real parasites are Jews. As he writes: “Blacks don’t hold a candle to the parasitic, Whitish looking, chameleon Jew… Just like the continuously changing or mutating HIV virus, Jews are the virus that destroyed the proactive, protective White T-cells of our body politic, while blacks are the “opportunistic” disease bacterium ravaging the system overall… The Jew virus first infected our digestive tract (the money-making apparatus or Federal Reserve) and then sent offspring out into the nervous system and up into the brain (the educational system and media) to blind and confuse us with a somnolent-inducing drug called “PC,” while keeping us from visiting the doctor (Hitler).”

Christ. I wish I'd never read that disgusting garbage.

 

[Silva]

At the very least, be consistent. If your problem is with ethno-states, you need to acknowledge that Israel is just one part of the problem in a region where pretty much every state defines itself along ethnic and/or religious lines. So your opposition to the proposed Palestinian state - which defines itself as both Arab and Islamic - and Palestinian nationalism should be made as clear as your opposition to Israel and Zionism.

It's lucky that the cobryn wing of the party does criticise the rest of those countries for those things. Going up to and including wanting to end our military support and arm sales to those countries for similar ethical reasons to wanting to end military support for the israel government.

What you probably shouldn’t do is play down, indulge, or in Corbyn’s case commemorate, all ugly manifestations of Palestinian nationalism while concurrently demonizing all manifestations, ugly or otherwise, of Zionism. Because that just makes it seem as if your opposition to ethno-states and nationalism is not really principled but conditional on which ethnic group or nation we are considering.

it would be more accurate to say conditional on who is winning, if the roles were reversed and jewish people were getting dominated in israel, there would be calls to intervene on behalf of them and give them asylum

that's the reason why Kurdish nationalism is promoted on the left, and why the left had sympathies with the IRA during the troubles

there's also a difference between an ethnostate and nationalism, that's the reason why the EDL and the SNP evoke difference emotional responses from the left
and if you believe that the dominant strand of zionism, or its current place in israeli politics is more akin to the edl than the snp, you're going to make comments like zionism=racism, and tbh that's fine with me

 

[DJ Jeff]

i said that to @Sassy Colin who i don't believe gives a shit about antisemitism and is a bad faith actor, i'd have been less brash to people who i think aren't bad faith actors

that was also before you posted the context which was left out of the original post, how many people here had ever heard of incog man before?

i also said ban her, and have said kick more people several times in this thread

but if images like that are all it takes for the labour party to be an "existential threat to british jewry" then, again, i have some bad news about the UK, there's significantly more callous and violent antisemitism in this country

if an antisemitic image about America/ & Israel is the absolute worst of it, even coming from white supremacists, it's really not as bad as you're going to find

I misinterpreted you earlier, I agree

 

[Eboue]

What you probably shouldn’t do is play down, indulge, or in Corbyn’s case commemorate, all ugly manifestations of Palestinian nationalism while concurrently demonizing all manifestations, ugly or otherwise, of Zionism. Because that just makes it seem as if your opposition to ethno-states and nationalism is not really principled but conditional on which ethnic group or nation we are considering.

Another explanation is that it is conditional on which side is the oppressor and which side is the oppressed. I cant say I agree with Malcolm X's segregation ideas but I'm going to spend a lot less time criticizing them than I am the Jim Crow south.

 

[Synco]

I suggest you go back and read his posts.

I actually reposted them.

The reason I used a derogatory tone is because of your child like insistence that other posters should criticise something someone has said.

Tolerance and ignorance of antisemitism has long been pointed out as an issue. What I observed there isn't some one-off situation, but a regular occurrence, here and elsewhere. And saying so is political criticism. Processing that as some weird personal affront is part of the problem. Also, "Waa Waa", come on.

-----

i said that to @Sassy Colin who i don't believe gives a shit about antisemitism and is a bad faith actor, i'd have been less brash to people who i think aren't bad faith actors

And how do you come from this ^ to this:

of all the examples of antisemitism in the labour party, of all the follow up quotes etc you really have a talent for picking the dullest most benign shit in the world

Calling that kind of antisemitic propaganda "benign" has nothing to do with Colin, it's apologism.

-----

that was also before you posted the context which was left out of the original post, how many people here had ever heard of incog man before?

I addressed exactly that point:

You had enough opportunity to retract these statements after the origins of that picture have been pointed out (not that this should have been needed), but you didn't.

Also insisting on "not that this should have been needed".

 

[Silva]

I actually reposted them.

Tolerance and ignorance of antisemitism has long been pointed out as an issue. What I observed there isn't some one-off situation, but a regular occurrence, here and elsewhere. And saying so is political criticism. Processing that as some weird personal affront is part of the problem. Also, "Waa Waa", come on.

-----

And how do you come from this ^ to this:

Calling that kind of antisemitic propaganda "benign" has nothing to do with Colin, it's apologism.

-----

I addressed exactly that point:

Also insisting on "not that this should have been needed".

why would i retract them, i would make similar exaggerated statements to other bad faith actors, if someone like will absolute got unbanned and started acting shocked about antisemitism i'd probably post worse

i have no interest in pretending people who don't care about racism are posting here because they're shocked by antisemitism

 

[Synco]

why would i retract them, i would make similar exaggerated statements to other bad faith actors, if someone like will absolute got unbanned and started acting shocked about antisemitism i'd probably post worse

So you go from "No one told me it was Nazi!" to "Why should I retract anything?" in only one post.

 

[Silva]

So you go from "No one told me it was Nazi!" to "Why should I retract anything?" in the matter of one post.

i said i'd have been less brash with context, i'd still have used exaggeration to point out @Sassy Colin is a bad faith actor

 

[Silva]

theresa may: racism is bad

haha feck off

synco: why you so racist though

 

[Synco]

theresa may: racism is bad

haha feck off

synco: why you so racist though

This is a bit silly, but the appropriate analogy would be:

Silva: That picture of menacing Muslim hordes she criticized is the most benign shit. As if that would amount to any existential threat.

 

[villain]

I don’t follow British politics close enough to answer. A good example of a principled activist who has advocated on behalf of Palestinian rights his entire life without being drawn towards the antisemitic gutter would be Peter Thatchell.

Isn't that part of the problem though? Shouldn't there be a British political voice that can represent the Palestinian voice?

 

[Silva]

This is a bit silly, but the appropriate analogy would be:

Silva: That picture of menacing Muslim hordes she criticized is the most benign shit. As if that would amount to any existential threat.

if theresa may went around talking about how muslims are persecuted and about islamaphobia it would genuinely be funny and i'd be exaggerating that shit, like, thanks t may inshallah we get our brothers and sisters safe, this is a completely believable and in character thing for you to be going on about, guess i'll vote for enoch now

 

[vidic blood & sand]

May - the worst Conservative leader ever.
Corbyn - the worst Labour leader ever.

Voters = puzzled = Liberal / Greens / Brexit all gaining in popularity. Where does it end?

American style Republican right vs Democratic left.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Isn't that part of the problem though? Shouldn't there be a British political voice that can represent the Palestinian voice?

There are loads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Friends_of_Palestine_&_the_Middle_East

They have a curious approach though

 

[villain]

There are loads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Friends_of_Palestine_&_the_Middle_East

They have a curious approach though

So none of these MP's have be accused of being antisemitic?

I'm trying to understand who's been able to be pro-palestine without being accused of antisemitism, it seems the two things can't be true at the same time - but I could be wrong.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

So none of these MP's have be accused of being antisemitic?

I'm trying to understand who's been able to be pro-palestine without being accused of antisemitism, it seems the two things can't be true at the same time - but I could be wrong.

Well, if you propose a 'final solution' to the Israel - Palestine issue then you're going to get called antisemitic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

 

[villain]

Well, if you propose a 'final solution' to the Israel - Palestine issue then you're going to get called antisemitic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution

Is this 'Final Solution' widely heard of? I've never heard of it (admittedly I don't keep up to date with Nazi propaganda) if you say the words 'final solution' when referring to the Israel/Palestine conflict, does that automatically make you antisemitic?
In the context of the screenshot you posted, it seemed that their proposal seemed to mean 'final solution' literally, as in - there's no more debate to be had, both sides can coexist with this solution we are putting forward.

 

[SteveJ]

It's, at best, unbelievably ignorant to use the term in that context...at best.

 

[Silva]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/12/momentum-drive-labour-members-deselect-mps

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Is this 'Final Solution' widely heard of?

Yes. Although it would be spectacularly dumb and/or brazen for somebody who actually is anti-semitic to intentionally use the phrase on twitter under a labour party moniker and hope good would come of it.

 

[villain]

It's, at best, unbelievably ignorant to use the term in that context...at best.

Makes sense, that group comes across clumsy & ignorant in their entire approach towards the issue, at best.
Plus the facebook group appears to be inactive, probably best for everyone that it remains that way.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Is this 'Final Solution' widely heard of? I've never heard of it (admittedly I don't keep up to date with Nazi propaganda) if you say the words 'final solution' when referring to the Israel/Palestine conflict, does that automatically make you antisemitic?
In the context of the screenshot you posted, it seemed that their proposal seemed to mean 'final solution' literally, as in - there's no more debate to be had, both sides can coexist with this solution we are putting forward.

It's extremely well known by anyone with a basic level of knowledge of European history. It's absolutely incredible that they'd put out a tweet like that.

But there are plenty of other times that members of that group have put their foot in it, not least when Corbyn publicly defended an artist that had painted an antisemitic (Jewish conspiracy) mural.

 

[sun_tzu]

Is this 'Final Solution' widely heard of? I've never heard of it (admittedly I don't keep up to date with Nazi propaganda) if you say the words 'final solution' when referring to the Israel/Palestine conflict, does that automatically make you antisemitic?
In the context of the screenshot you posted, it seemed that their proposal seemed to mean 'final solution' literally, as in - there's no more debate to be had, both sides can coexist with this solution we are putting forward.

yes - very

Cant believe anybody could have even a cursory knowledge of WW2 without knowing about it

e.g. let me google that for you

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=final solution&s=g

first link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
second
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/final-solution-overview
third
https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-final-solution/
and this could go on and on and on

How likley is it that somebody who is delaing with media relations for Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle East is unaware of this?

 

[fishfingers15]

I had no idea about final solution but I also have to say I'm not the brightest either

 

[villain]

Yes. Although it would be spectacularly dumb and/or brazen for somebody who actually is anti-semitic to intentionally use the phrase on twitter under a labour party moniker and hope good would come of it.

It's extremely well known by anyone with a basic level of knowledge of European history. It's absolutely incredible that they'd put out a tweet like that.

But there are plenty of other times that members of that group have put their foot in it, not least when Corbyn publicly defended an artist that had painted an antisemitic (Jewish conspiracy) mural.

In that case then it's incredibly stupid of them, and the criticism isn't a surprise.

yes - very

Cant believe anybody could have even a cursory knowledge of WW2 without knowing about it

e.g. let me google that for you

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=final solution&s=g

first link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
second
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/final-solution-overview
third
https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-final-solution/
and this could go on and on and on

How likley is it that somebody who is delaing with media relations for Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle East is unaware of this?

This comes across quite condescending tbh.
I'm trying to ask questions on perspectives of actual people, not google results, particularly as this is a topic i'm not familiar with.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

The friends of Labour Palestine thing seems to be absolutely moronic but not outright convincing that Labour MP’s are anti-semetic.

 

[2cents]

It's lucky that the cobryn wing of the party does criticise the rest of those countries for those things. Going up to and including wanting to end our military support and arm sales to those countries for similar ethical reasons to wanting to end military support for the israel government.

‘Criticism’ of Israel goes beyond that directed at those other states, certainly far beyond the call to end arms sales. They do not have their entire right to exist as a state constantly challenged, they do not have their national movements demonized to anywhere near the same degree. Whatever criticisms are directed at the specific policies of these states, the left seems to have made its peace with their continued existence.

it would be more accurate to say conditional on who is winning, if the roles were reversed and jewish people were getting dominated in israel, there would be calls to intervene on behalf of them and give them asylum

that's the reason why Kurdish nationalism is promoted on the left, and why the left had sympathies with the IRA during the troubles

Another explanation is that it is conditional on which side is the oppressor and which side is the oppressed. I cant say I agree with Malcolm X's segregation ideas but I'm going to spend a lot less time criticizing them than I am the Jim Crow south.

Right, so it's not a matter of principle but rather power relations, and there are conceivable circumstances under which you guys would become supporters of Zionism and learn to overlook its uglier manifestations. Although presumably (in @Silva's case anyway) these circumstances don't include the conditions European Jews found themselves in during the first half of the 20th century.

In any case, I said above "What you probably shouldn’t do is play down, indulge, or in Corbyn’s case commemorate, all ugly manifestations of Palestinian nationalism while concurrently demonizing all manifestations, ugly or otherwise, of Zionism."

This doesn't mean abandoning the Palestinians for the sake of a purely egalitarian approach. It means recognizing that an entirely sympathetic attitude towards the claims and actions of one side, coupled with an entirely dismissive attitude towards the claims and actions of the other is likely to be perceived as support for the total victory of one side over the other, and not a means of finding a negotiated settlement with its implied recognition of both national claims. And if Palestinian victory is indeed what you're advocating for (I believe it is what Corbyn and his side of things are advocating for), then it is extremely important to understand exactly what the implications of Palestinian victory will be in terms of how Palestinian nationalism imagines the future of Palestine to look like, and in terms of how Israeli Jews are likely to respond to it.

 

[2cents]

So none of these MP's have be accused of being antisemitic?

I'm trying to understand who's been able to be pro-palestine without being accused of antisemitism, it seems the two things can't be true at the same time - but I could be wrong.

From what I remember, many members of the Labour Friends of Palestine are concurrently members of the Labour Friends of Israel.

 

[ZupZup]

So none of these MP's have be accused of being antisemitic?

I'm trying to understand who's been able to be pro-palestine without being accused of antisemitism, it seems the two things can't be true at the same time - but I could be wrong.

Currently no prominent politician in this country who isn’t themselves Jewish, could be outspoken in support of Palestine without being accused of anti-semitism or of promoting it. They would be accused of it as a way of delegitimising their views.

It happens in the States too. You’ll even see articles online accusing Bernie Sanders of it and he is Jewish himself.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Right, so it's not a matter of principle but rather power relations

These two things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Silva]

‘Criticism’ of Israel goes beyond that directed at those other states, certainly far beyond the call to end arms sales. They do not have their entire right to exist as a state constantly challenged, they do not have their national movements demonized to anywhere near the same degree. Whatever criticisms are directed at the specific policies of these states, the left seems to have made its peace with their continued existence.

it's rare you find yourself in a protracted debate about whether qatar is racist or not because there's fewer people in the west defending them any of those countries and if people were you ask you the same questions i.e "does saudi arabia have an inalienable right to exist" you'd get the same confused "uh yeah, no, idk" aggregate answers

This doesn't mean abandoning the Palestinians for the sake of a purely egalitarian approach. It means recognizing that an entirely sympathetic attitude towards the claims and actions of one side, coupled with an entirely dismissive attitude towards the claims and actions of the other is likely to be perceived as support for the total victory of one side over the other, and not a means of finding a negotiated settlement with its implied recognition of both national claims. And if Palestinian victory is indeed what you're advocating for (I believe it is what Corbyn and his side of things are advocating for), then it is extremely important to understand exactly what the implications of Palestinian victory will be in terms of how Palestinian nationalism imagines the future of Palestine to look like, and in terms of how Israeli Jews are likely to respond to it.

what are you talking about, peace would be total victory not the domination of jews by palestianians, that there are dominationists in palestinian nationalism is irrelevant while they're getting so completely owned

nelson mandella wasn't always a peace loving reconciliationist but i'm not about to criticise his actions under apartheid either

 

[Silva]

the "other countries don't get this criticism" is the most disingenuous one imo, other countries don't get the hardline defence, when khaggoshi was murdereded you didn't have a million media personalities falling over themselves to talk about saudi arabia defending itself - if there was a hardline defence of these actions by other countries there would be more and harsher criticism, if the myanmar genocide had people defending it would be significantly more fleshed out in the western media and would get more prominent placing, if iran had people writing about how them having nukes would actually be a good thing you'd get more criticism of their nuclear program

the overwhelming majority of the threads here for example are about america and the uk, because they have the most criticism and defence from the posters, it's not because we're uniquely against america, it's just what causes the most traffic

 

[2cents]

peace would be total victory not the domination of jews by palestianians, that there are dominationists in palestinian nationalism is irrelevant

In Israel/Palestine there are two national movements with exclusivist claims to the entire land. They have different national languages, religions, have different names for every hill and village, different national heroes to go on their currency and name their streets after, different national anthems to express the national will, different national holidays. They have entirely different ideas about the nature of the country and the principles by which it should be run.

This is not a civil rights issue. Without a one-state solution where both sides are willing to relegate their national identities and aspirations to a civil sphere with no political implications, or a two-state solution where they agree to split the land and separate from each other as much as possible into two ethnically-defines states (which was the logic behind the UN partition plan and Oslo), then victory for one side means defeat for the other. If you think the Palestinian side of this equation is irrelevant, that all the Palestinians have been fighting for is ‘equality’, then you probably don’t take the Palestinians seriously as a nation, and you certainly don’t understand the conflict and how it has developed.

the "other countries don't get this criticism" is the most disingenuous one imo

It’s not ‘criticism’ I’m talking about. Israel is deserving of much criticism. It’s the total mass campaign aimed at delegitimizing an entire national movement, while concurrently supporting a rival national movement.

Supporters of Kurdish rights are likely to be very critical of Turkish/Iraqi/Iranian/Syrian actions. I certainly am. You will rarely if ever, however, hear us declare that Turkey must be dismantled, that Turkish nationalism is necessarily racist and basically evil, that Turkish national aspirations are illegitimate, that Turkish concerns regarding Kurdish militancy are irrelevant, and that the only solution is the triumph of Kurdish nationalism over its Turkish counterpart. Most of us are able to recognize that whatever the position of dominance the Turks hold over the Kurds, the national aspirations of both peoples need to be accommodated for any type of lasting peace to be achieved.

 

[villain]

Currently no prominent politician in this country who isn’t themselves Jewish, could be outspoken in support of Palestine without being accused of anti-semitism or of promoting it. They would be accused of it as a way of delegitimising their views.

It happens in the States too. You’ll even see articles online accusing Bernie Sanders of it and he is Jewish himself.

I agree with this, I mean clearly the actions of some MP's on social media is very questionable regarding this 'Final Solution' stuff (& more i'm sure)
But I don't think i've ever seen a prominent British politician support Palestine without being accused of antisemitism.