This is simply not true and is not congruous with the party's own statements and policies. Their solution to stopping Brexit is to have a second referendum. That is the platform on which they are campaigning. You're suggesting that that policy would suddenly transform into simply revoking Article 50 and ending the whole process if they were to become the largest party. It's wishful thinking on your part. Face it, they have no real solution to stopping Brexit and it's the same as Labour's position only they are less equivocal about the outcome they wish for and would not bother to negotiate their own deal.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
This is simply not true and is not congruous with the party's own statements and policies. Their solution to stopping Brexit is to have a second referendum. That is the platform on which they are campaigning. You're suggesting that that policy would suddenly transform into simply revoking Article 50 and ending the whole process if they were to become the largest party. It's wishful thinking on your part. Face it, they have no real solution to stopping Brexit and it's the same as Labour's position only they are less equivocal about the outcome they wish for and would not bother to negotiate their own deal.
In any referendum, the Lib Dems would campaign for remain. Labour would campaign for its own Brexit (details currently unknown). These are stated positions. Tell me again why remainers should support labour over the Lib Dem’s?
What do you expect from Tory Lite.
In fairness the lib dems have a history of saying one thing out of power and another thing when in power.
...As opposed to labour which say one thing when out of power, then the same thing when out of power (again).
LibDem's desire is to stop Brexit by having another referendum and winning it.
I guess Corbyn thinks he can get a better deal out of Europe (the unicorns in my post). Given what he's said in his letter, though, he would put that deal to the people. I guess in that circumstance he would campaign for his deal (should he get one).
BTW, You have a shite way of communicating with others. Should probably work on that.
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Yeah that really isn't the own you think it is.
So what policies do the Tory Li... I mean Lib Dems have for saving the Welfare State?
Seems fairly clear Boris has already siphoned a decent portion of the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn's struggling to win back disaffected Remainers going to the LD's. I suspect come election time Labour would be able to improve their standing a bit more with people ultimately still regarding them as the best anti-Tory option, but I don't think the LD's will fall away completely either: look fairly solid for 15% or so in any election as it stands.
I suppose it depends if the Boris/hard Brexiteer honeymoon comes to an end if he runs into problems with Brexit, but since his current approach will likely be to find a way to blame Remainers for being unable to deliver it, there's a decent chance he'll keep his current tally and his waltz to victory in any election.
Ultimately it depends how many seats that translates into though.
https://www.markpack.org.uk/opinion-polls/
I don't know how reliable this guy is, but downloading his opinion poll history it looks like recently Labour have been polling the worst of any time since his records began, in 1943, and not just the worst but considerably the worst. I get the Brexit party didn't exist in the past but a whole shedload of things have happened in 75 years that Labour have somehow managed to deal with a whole lot better than now. Something's wrong with the Labour party and if they're going to get anywhere they need to figure out and address what it is, and that doesn't just mean blaming everyone else.
I don't know how reliable this guy is, but downloading his opinion poll history it looks like recently Labour have been polling the worst of any time since his records began, in 1943, and not just the worst but considerably the worst. I get the Brexit party didn't exist in the past but a whole shedload of things have happened in 75 years that Labour have somehow managed to deal with a whole lot better than now. Something's wrong with the Labour party and if they're going to get anywhere they need to figure out and address what it is, and that doesn't just mean blaming everyone else.
I just checked the electoral predictions for seats:
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
They have the Tories down 7 seats. Big drop for Labour too, but its just redistributed amongst Libs/SNP etc. If the Tories are down 7, then there's no realistic route to them forming a government.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
They have the Tories down 7 seats. Big drop for Labour too, but its just redistributed amongst Libs/SNP etc. If the Tories are down 7, then there's no realistic route to them forming a government.
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Landline? How do they account for or quantify bias? I've not had a landline plugged in for 6-8 years.
Stopping brexit comes first.
I doubt brexit of any sort would be a friend to welfare state funding.
Sometimes I read your stuff and wonder how much you really want power. I suspect the answer is “not enough” - easier to take refuge in ideological purity than the messy trade offs required in government.
Wait til a lib-lab coalition is up for grabs after the next election, I can’t wait to see your reaction to that.
Ok, so good to see we agree that the Lib Dem approach to stopping Brexit is essentially the same as Labour's.
I never claimed Remainers should support Labour over the Lib Dems. If you are a voter who sees membership of the EU and stopping Brexit as taking precedence over everything else, then you have good reason to consider voting Lib Dem over Labour.
Edit - also Labour's policy on whether it would campaign for Remain or its own deal should it gain power has not actually been stated, as far as I'm aware. The last I read was that if they found themselves in that scenario then it would be debated internally before an agreed position was reached.
The leader has a lack of balls.
My mother-in-law, member of Labour Party and Labour voter for nearly 70 years, her father was a Labour councilor - she dislikes JC with a passion, thinks he’s a terrible leader. I dare say it’s a view shared by many. The problem is she will still vote Labour so he thinks he’s got the backing
Well ok but the prospect that labour wouldn’t advocate the deal it negotiated just isn’t credible (and it’d be seen as such by the electorate). The only way it might be is if labour got rid of the leadership at some point in the process, bit like the tories.
Why would trying to secure a "better" deal before putting it to the people again be any less credible than the Lib Dems just putting the Tory deal to the people and praying that they get the answer they want this time?
Because it's easier to take refuge in ideological purity than the messy trade offs required in government or something.
I said, labour not backing its own deal in a referendum, wouldn’t be credible. Please keep up.
24% in the polls mate, 10 points behind. You are going nowhere.
Shit man I had no idea. I better vote Lib Dem in that case.
Jeremy Corbin has been a great disappointment. He had a lot going for him and he let it pass. Now is the time for someone else.
How does that figure compare to previous elections etc? While they bucked the trend with their semi-comeback in 2017 there's obviously often been a bit of a trope that older committed Tories are ultimately a lot more likely to go out than Labour voter, unless they're really enthused. And as it stands it'll take a very strong campaign to turn things around and get them enthused.
Would also be useful to see the Lib Dem figure there too for how their likely their supporters are to vote.
ASAP, the Labour left (Momentum etc) needs to find an ideologically good candidate with a pro-Remain record and replace Corbyn. Corbyn's strategy worked vs May, it won't against Johnson, and the polling proves both bits of that.
Momentum exists because of Corbyn. They are his foot soldiers.
They are a left faction within Labour that became possible only after he became leader. If he is harming the party's prospects, and I believe he is once Boris became PM, they need to look at ways to remove him.
I don't disagree. But Momentum are more likely to go down with a sinking ship than admit they might need to change course.
Yeah I'm too lazy to look this one up. Sorry.
That was always going to be the case in fairness.
Nah people are jumping the gun a little with regards to old Boris being PM. He will face the same issues has May did during the last election(Worth saying that before and at the start of the last election everyone thought May was a brilliant, tough political opponent).
This issues are long standing and intrench into the Thatcherite politics, which is the dominate thought it in the tory party(Brexit has shown the more right elements of the tory party have got nothing). Boris projects the possibly of a more ''one nation''toryism in his speeches(Just like May did)but look at who's in the cabinet and the links it to the tax payers alliance.
All of this doesn't make a tory win impossible but its in no way a easy task.
I think that's a misunderstanding of what Momentum is. There's certainly a large (generally older CND/Militant bunch) 'Jeremy or bust' camp within Momentum who would see any push for Corbyn to step aside as a betrayal regardless of whether it came from left or right, but these people aren't a majority within Momentum or the Labour Left in general. They're just the people who have the loudest, least nuanced opinions and who therefore get the most attention. Empty cans rattle loudest, as the old adage goes. The vast majority of people I know who are affiliated or active in Momentum are Remainers in their 20s who are capable of holding nuanced opinions and would happily back any 'left' candidate going forwards if Corbyn was to step-down.
There are obvious reasons that no-one on the left is pushing for a change of leader. The elephant in the room is that the media and figures on the right of the party will come at any vaguely left-wing Labour leader just as hard as they've come at Corbyn (they're already coming at young left-wing MPs like Laura Pidcock with the same attack lines they use on Corbyn, despite the fact that she has none of Corbyn's baggage or dodgy associations). Another leadership election would be a couple of months of brutal in-fighting and awful press coverage, after which we'd be back to square one with a left-wing leader being constantly undermined by members of their own party in Parliament. All of this distracting from the Tory-caused crisis we're knee-deep in and with a possible snap election on the way.
I'm as frustrated as anyone with Corbyn's irritating fence-sitting re: Brexit, but at this stage all factions need to look at the bigger picture and pull together instead of flexing their egos, the right of PLP would do well to look to the recent past and realise that had they not thrown their toys out of the pram for two solid years following Corbyn's election, the 2017 election would probably have delivered a Remain majority in parliament instead of a razor-thin Leave one. Boris will be a disaster as PM and Tory leader and if Labour can't manage not to shit itself for a few months it will be looking good going into any future election.
Pretty much. If people just look at the polices they are pushing, they quite similar to the progressive stuff in the US like AOC.
Yet nearly 5 years on and its still lefty ''foot soldiers''.
I think with Boris, politics is indeed polarised according to Brexit. There is a mainstream unambiguous Brexit party with a 52+~10% ceiling. The 48+~10 vote is split between 2, unless the other mainstream party goes for it (may not be possible).
That would be the election Labour stood on a Leave manifesto promising to honour Brexit? It was all very nuanced I suppose.
Yet nearly 5 years on and its still lefty ''foot soldiers''.
That's interesting to me.
Although I guess it doesn't help that Momentum exist because of Lansman, a key Corbyn ally and the man who helped propel him to the top.
It will depend on how much of the election will be about Brexit. With it around the corner at the end of October, it will of course be talked about but I can't see it being the only focus(Not to forget the tories will have to this time activity run on a no deal brexit). Given the way our news functions and that one party(Labour) will trying to talk about anything other than Brexit.
Edit - example the by election last night
Buoyant Lib Dems keep quiet on Brexit in Brecon and Radnorshire
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-to-brexit-brecon-and-radnorshire-byelection
Christ she sounds like Corbyn
That's if we even get a general election before October.
Er what ?That's interesting to me.
Although I guess it doesn't help that Momentum exist because of Lansman, a key Corbyn ally and the man who helped propel him to the top.
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What's the issue?