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Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Just look at the posts on this thread.
Its like a football game. Its about getting 'your side' to win. Win what?
Swinson and Johnson are in it for themselves.
Corbyn is the only genuine candidate.
Plato got it right over two thousand years ago....the problem is that those best fit to govern are those who do not want to
Centrists - or moderates if you will - believe extremists and extremist, partisan, black and white thinking is dangerous, unrealistic and should be resisted. They believe in dialogue, argument, compromise, and a rational, evidence based approach rather than one based on ideology. Politically this would manifest itself in the broad centre ground.
Moderates will fight for these values if they have to. The idea that "centrism" is the absence of a political philosophy, is just a bit ignorant.
So what do Centrists do for the needs of ordinary people?
Note the “centrists” in inverted commas....it’s not a comment on whether it’s possible to hold a centrist position, it’s a comment on my opinion that many “centrists” are centrists because they will happily flip-flop from one set of beliefs to another depending on which way the winds are blowing
Plato was wrong and his philosophy is essentially a totalitarian one.
That just reflects the fact that most people don't give a shit about politics.
Also, wasn't that Douglas Adams?
Define needs, define ordinary people.
Those who have seen their futures and that of their children get dimmer.
Do you really believe their futures will get better under Swinson and Johnson?
If so how?
I’m talking about people IN Politics!
“Essentially”? His philosophy is absolutely totalitarian. Doesn’t make him wrong about the point he was making in the context I was quoting him though
Centrists will introduce same sex marriage and then bash the unemployed and working poor.
in a nutshell.
Get elected?
see post #14317
If the context was somehow that Corbyn was some kind of disinterested philosopher king who has to be prodded to being PM, well, not sure I'm with you on that. He's as vain as the rest of them. But if I'm misinterpreting, then apologies.
I'm saying what actually happened. I'm not talking some hypothetical.
Policies are always difficult for Centrists to articulate.
No wasn’t commenting on Corbyn, I like Corbyn but he’s a career Politician, no doubt about that
On Venezuela...not getting into the left/right debate but pretty sure oil prices dropping by 2/3rds had a huge impact on the countries economic performance given it makes up about 70/80% of their exports.
I have no idea what the answer is, but do you really believe their futures will get better under Corbyn?
It might be because she says stuff like ‘mao did more good than harm’ on live tv.
But yeah, I’m sure if a Tory MP made a similar claim about Hitler, it would be brushed under the carpet.
Ah yes, that must explain why Abbot received almost half of the abuse directed at MPs then.
Because, as far as I'm aware, no Tory MP has ever said anything outrageous on live TV.
She consistently says that shit. Another poster already offered up another horrendous example of her opinions.
To go with that she can’t do junior school maths so it’s hardly a huge surprise she gets shit.
Obviously she gets more directed at her because of her background, but people saying ‘imagine her as home secretary’ or not considering her as fit for that role is fair game.
Also, when did a Tory MP last go on live television and try and argue in favour of a murderous dictator? Pretty sure if one did their career wouldn’t survive long.
No it's not. It's because she's a black lady.
It's equally not a surprise to see you unable to accept that might be a factor given the recent car crash that have been your posts in this forum.
It is a bit of a surprise that you think examples of Tory MPs doing stuff like that might be hard to find. I mean, feck, it was less than a year ago the PM rolled the red carpet out for fecking Mohamed Bin Salman and you're acting like the Tories would never sink so far as to cosy up to dictators. It's utterly laughable.
Dianne Abbot is atrocious, and would be awful as a Home Secretary. She also receives a lot of racist abuse. You don't have to pick a side.
It’s not purely because she’s a black lady though, is it? It’s also because she says outrageously horrible and dumb shit. Obviously she gets added abuse for the colour of her skin, but it’s not the sole reason.
I didn’t say it wasn’t a factor, but the main reason she is getting abuse isn’t because she’s a black lady, it’s because she is a high profile MP who comes out with regularly daft shite. Portraying her as some innocent victim is laughable.
The post in question acted like her competency/character was only getting questioned due to her gender and race. But the reality is that she constantly makes eye raising statements and embarrasses herself, and then obviously that’s under even more scrutiny from certain cnutish types who take it too far.
The abuse she gets is vile and unjustifiable. But she is also more incompetent and clueless than nearly anybody in parliament.
Is that really the same as an MP looking back at the most murderous dictator in human history and saying ‘well he actually did more good than bad’ ??? I don’t think it is, at all. It’s pretty clear from that statement she admires some of what Mao did, which frankly is fecking terrifying.
Yeah I'm sure if a white male colleague had said the problem is black people then that would have been totally brushed over ... It's just a right wing media conspiracy to make her seem feking incompetent
Thanks for proving my point by posting a meme that attributes an entirely fabricated quote to Abbott. Utterly ridiculous and you should be ashamed for sharing such shite.
Totally agree with this.
In many ways its similar to the Sterling media coverage but has not been called into check. Sensationalist and negative with undertones of agenda driven coverage. Put a magnifying glass over any negative aspects of their life and ignore reasonable comparison.
Ah good, I'm glad you crunched the numbers on that one. There was me thinking that your perception may have been altered by the disproportionate focus on Diane Abbott by racist feckwits in the press and on social media. I mean, come on, the voting public will struggle to name the members of the shadow cabinet. The fact Abbot even registers on people's radars is itself a pretty good sign she's singled out.
Diane Abbott may well be exceptionally incompetent, but given the absolutely staggering levels of incompetence exhibited on a daily basis by almost everyone in Parliament, it's hard to argue the incessant need to call out every stupid gaffe she makes (like, that Mao quote is from 2008!) is entirely motivated by a genuinely held belief that she is exceptionally incompetent.
And let's be clear about what this focus on Abbott comes against. Because it comes against a backdrop of Tory incompetence managing to split the country into two whilst deporting British citizens because of incompetence, Tory MPs assaulting people, Tory MPs using the n word in parliament and the Tories literally fecking killing people through whichever one of maliciousness/incompetence you want to believe that it is. All of those were apparently not as bad as Abbott drinking a mojito on the tube though.
Yeh, no need to make up quotes for Abbott, there's loads of real ones.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278
Yeah, another "example" which is literally made up. I wondered how long it would be before someone brought up the maths thing. Because apparently getting numbers wrong once means that you're going to receive far more criticism than other politicians who consciously engineer a policy designed to target black British citizens for deportation.
When did a Tory MP last go on live television and try and defend a murderous dictator? I mean, take your pick of anytime one of them has defended the government's relationship with Saudi Arabia recently. Oh, and the Tory MP who a few years back proudly declared how much he admired Pinochet and remains a member of Parliament today.
And not to mention that the actual fecking chancellor got his numbers wrong shortly after that and nobody cared.
Oh, or the fact that our PM is a man who literally makes up bollocks as he goes along and people clap along like fecking seals because he's got a floppy hair cut and a posh accent.
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A comment which sums it up perfectly. You obviously form your political opinions from social media snapshots and media soundbites. You have no clue as to the grassroots work she has long done in politics, and her record would put a lot of MPs to shame. But she got her numbers wrong once and has made a few careless comments, as every other politician has done, and now she is more incompetent than everyone else apparently. How many MPs can you name that qualifies you to make such a sweeping statement?
Abbott is a pretty high profile member of the shadow cabinet. She's regularly talking in the press, it's not a case of her merely being singled out. How many other top labour mps are regularly going on talk shows, radio etc? Labour have used her as a mouthpiece on a number of occasions and it's backfired.
I mean, the Mao quote was just the worst thing she's said that I can think of. And it's pretty terrible. As far as I'm aware she never apologised for the comment either, so there's the issue of that as well.
The mojito shit was obviously stupid, and she's obviously become more and more of a target as she's become a bit of a caricature. But she played a large part in forming that caricature by saying despicable/incredibly stupid shit related to race baiting or excusing dictators. Do Tory MP's escape the same criticism? Possibly, but most of the major newspapers are pro-tory so it's something you'd expect, especially during election time the gutter press are far more likely to focus on a labour MP slipping up than a Tory MP.
I just have very little sympathy for somebody who has expressed the kind of views Abbott has. I don't think she deserves any of the abuse and anybody racially abusing or threatening people should be facing the consequences of that, but as an individual if you attempt to argue in favour of arguably the worst human being ever, responsible for the deaths of tens of millions, or race bait to the level Abbott has ... do I really feel that sorry for you?
The thing with Diane Abbott is that she is often bad in TV interviews... and this is 99% of the reason she is referred to as incompetent etc. and the idea of her as Home Secretary is seen as laughable.
Personally, I wouldn’t be remotely bothered by her as Home Secretary because the job is not a TV interview with Jeremy Paxman. More importantly, her past voting record on the sort of issues she would be dealing with would actually show she usually finds herself on the right side of history.
The fact that she fluffs numbers in a TV interview is seen as irrefutable evidence that she would be a bad Home Secretary... despite it being hardly at all relevant to doing the actual job. On the other side, the fact that she defied the whip to vote against the 2014 Immigration Act, citing concerns at the time that British nationals could end up being treated as immigrants... that’s far better evidence of how she might fair as a Home Secretary in my opinion.
Personally, I wouldn’t be remotely bothered by her as Home Secretary because the job is not a TV interview with Jeremy Paxman. More importantly, her past voting record on the sort of issues she would be dealing with would actually show she usually finds herself on the right side of history.
The fact that she fluffs numbers in a TV interview is seen as irrefutable evidence that she would be a bad Home Secretary... despite it being hardly at all relevant to doing the actual job. On the other side, the fact that she defied the whip to vote against the 2014 Immigration Act, citing concerns at the time that British nationals could end up being treated as immigrants... that’s far better evidence of how she might fair as a Home Secretary in my opinion.