Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."

[noodlehair]

It's hardly a war path. He's basically telling them to man up. If they are men then that's what they will do. If they are babies then they will be babies whoever the manager is.

He needs to be careful how often he does it, especially if he's going to name players (which I do think is a bit off), but it is kind of what needs to be done.

Also he did win the league with Chelsea and Real before things went wrong, and those are two clubs who have lots of form for forcing out managers due to poor attitude from players, regardless of who the manager is.

I don't want United being like that.

 

[Lennon7]

That is complete BS to me. In that situation the medical staff and the player's opinion should go first.

Okay, the medical staff then. Neither the medical staff nor the manager seemingly had any say in Smalling/Shaw's decision to not play.

 

[Lennon7]

I was agreeing with you.

My point being it's not the first time a top manager has had concerns regarding Shaw. Maybe he just needs a kick up the arse from time to time.

Aye I know! I was just adding to what you said, saying we know he can get up to the fitness standard required because he was great before his injury last year. A kick up the arse would do nicely, and this could be it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Most of our players have not been here for all three seasons.

Some have though and it will be easy for them to influence newcomers.

 

[Santoryo]

feck me @Santoryo... broken record or what? We get it, you don't like things out in public. Well the thing is, a lot of us don't mind.

I accept that some people don't like it, why can't you just give it a rest and accept that not everyone feels the same rather than wasting your time repeating the same points again and again and again?

So I'm not allowed to state my views on this matter as much as I want but you guys who see things opposite to me can talk all day long without being reminded to have a limit and cap at how many time you can post.

Please refrain from such behavior.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

It's hardly a war path. He's basically telling them to man up. If they are men then that's what they will do. If they are babies then they will be babies whoever the manager is.

He needs to be careful how often he does it, especially if he's going to name players (which I do think is a bit off), but it is kind of what needs to be done.

Also he did win the league with Chelsea and Real before things went wrong, and those are two clubs who have lots of form for forcing out managers due to poor attitude from players, regardless of who the manager is.

I don't want United being like that.

This sums it up. ^^

I'm quite surprised people are content with our players to take the piss out of the club, if that is in fact what they are doing. The small exception would be Shaw who may have psychological hurdles post injury.

 

[ChrisNelson]

I think the fact that the comments have been getting worse week by week, it's starting to snowball, Jose looks like a man deeply under pressure and it's getting to him. Sincerely hope he turns it around.

This is a good point. I think Jose is starting to realise that there are now 5/6 teams that could win the League rather than a maximum of 3 when he first joined Chelsea. He is very unsettled by not having everything his own way and managers singling out players is rare, for a good reason - it doesn't tend to have a positive impact.

 

[Ban]

Carry on Santoryo, explain how is Mourinho opening and RUNNING his STUPID MOUTH causing a CHAOS and ruining OUR CLUB.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

How can people encourage such behavior from the manager toward his own players when we have past occurrences as proof of such erratic behavior only heading for disaster.

He lost both his previous jobs because of shit he's trying to do right now. Fecking useless and petty wars with his own players, trying to annihilate certain players, publicly flogging them. We've seen this script before with the same man twice and they all had a similar ending.

The more I sit here and think how this very day could have been mostly dominated by talks about our performance against Swansea but instead the talks are about shaming some of our players, negative vibe around despite a decent win in a while.

These are the times we should grab at any opportunity to get a positive feel, good headlines about our club after going through countless weeks of dooms. But nope, let's throw the players and everyone effort away after a pretty decent win and turn everything around the club into some drama. An outsider might think "well the media and detractors are really out to get them(United) if they can still find something negative to say about the club after a good victory" but as it turned out IT'S OUR OWN MANAGER THAT JUST STARTED THIS MESS BY RUNNING HIS MOUTH.

People have to stop lying to themselves if they think Mourinho current approach to things ever resulted in some positive reaction from everyone. These things always head for disaster.

Right now he's really not into deep which means things can still smoothed over. Continue on this war path against your OWN players and it's Madrid-Chelsea all over again.

No, he didn't. A certain individual's brother went on a rant on the internet against the manager because the latter dared to drop his little bro from the first team for two whole games. Now, the little bro could have said his older brother not to do such a thing because it would cause a turmoil within the club. In fact both of them are clever enough to know that action brings reaction but they still went on with it. The manager eventually gave the player a place in the starting xi again but the latter looked less fit than a 50 yo beer addict. When the manager said that he will trust him again, the little bro told the manager "feck it, i don't feel like it". And we're talking about a player who, on the merit of just being a good talent, he's stripped of any competition for his role on the pitch. He gets the vip treatment, the club doesn't buy a new LB after him breaking his leg and fat thighs and siblings talking shite on the internet is what he gives the club in return.

The other player is known for hitting the physio's room at whatever opportunity he can find. When the manager told him to toughen up and help the team get through the Chelsea game, he put in a performance that would make Sunday league footballers apologize a thousand times to their teammates.

These two were thrown under the bus and rightly so. For two reasons: Firstly, because there are players in the squad like Mata and Blind, who were perceived as goners by almost anyone who has an opinion about MUFC. The same bad manager told them that they can seek another destination where they will get first team football or they can stay at the club and fight for playing time by knowing that they're not the type of footballers he likes. Right now, they're both in the manager's plans and two of our best performers on the pitch. Why? Maybe because they chose not to bitch and moan all the time but get on with their job.

Secondly, disasters like the ones you all soothsayers predict often happen when the manager falls out with world class players who are vital for their teams. In our squad, if you take away De Gea, there's not a single player whose departure a club of our size and wealth can't sustain. From the two biggest prospects one (Rashford) is getting lots of playing time while the other (Martial) is getting more starts in "easier" games in order to shake off his personal issues.

 

[RC89]

Thing is, as a professional you're always going to have little niggles. Even those of us who play in something as uncompetitive as 5 a side on the weekends pick up little niggles that can really take a few weeks to fully go away. But as soon as you start playing it takes very little if anything away from your game.

 

[Santoryo]

Carry on Santoryo, explain how is Mourinho opening and RUNNING his STUPID MOUTH causing a CHAOS and ruining OUR CLUB.

How?

He's the one who opened his mouth(after a win) and went on to talk about these players and all the drama. Now here we are stuck in a storm talking shit about the players and most of the headlines running about us are about all of the negative they could find from Mourinho's unnecessary comments.

Had Mourinho just done the decent thing and talk about taking positive from this win, trying to bounce back, carrying on and all that positive cliche, we nor the media would have been talking about all these negativity surrounding the club, at least not until another bad result.

But we couldn't have that. We need drama, so there it is. Started by our manager himself.

 

[Manny]

Lets be honest here, if Wenger, Conte, Klopp or Pochettino were making similar comments we would be talking how they are cracking up. Something is seriously wrong at the club, it's worrying.

Have any of those managers ever demanded the level of fight that we saw Chelsea or Inter under Jose? Or the hunger SAF demanded here?

No, and none of those managers have come close to Jose's or SAF's achievements.

I think the fact that the comments have been getting worse week by week, it's starting to snowball, Jose looks like a man deeply under pressure and it's getting to him. Sincerely hope he turns it around.

It's only a problem if the fans side with the players. And I really don't see why they would want to do that considering the lack of professionalism and fight the players have shown since SAF left.

 

[SSSSnake]

How?

He's the one who opened his mouth(after a win) and went on to talk about these players and all the drama. Now here we are stuck in a storm talking shit about the players and most of the headlines running about us are about all of the negative they could find from Mourinho's unnecessary comments.

Had Mourinho just done the decent thing and talk about taking positive from this win, trying to bounce back, carrying on and all that positive cliche, we nor the media would have been talking about all these negativity surrounding the club, at least not until another bad result.

But we couldn't have that. We need drama, so there it is. Started by our manager himself.

Sod off mate. He did the right thing and that was to address the issue. He is challenging the players and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So I'm not allowed to state my views on this matter as much as I want but you guys who see things opposite to me can talk all day long without being reminded to have a limit and cap at how many time you can post.

Please refrain from such behavior.

https://www.redcafe.net/members/santoryo.87468/

@Santoryo pal, you're free to post the same post as many times as you like, but maybe at some point you should save yourself the bother and accept that 50% are with you and 50% don't share the same opinion? You're not adding anything new to the discussion that you haven't already posted like 20 times.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No, he didn't. A certain individual's brother went on a rant on the internet against the manager because the latter dared to drop his little bro from the first team for two whole games. Now, the little bro could have said his older brother not to do such a thing because it would cause a turmoil within the club. In fact both of them are clever enough to know that action brings reaction but they still went on with it. The manager eventually gave the player a place in the starting xi again but the latter looked less fit than a 50 yo beer addict. When the manager said that he will trust him again, the little bro told the manager "feck it, i don't feel like it". And we're talking about a player who, on the merit of just being a good talent, he's stripped of any competition for his role on the pitch. He gets the vip treatment, the club doesn't buy a new LB after him breaking his leg and fat thighs and siblings talking shite on the internet is what he gives the club in return.

The other player is known for hitting the physio's room at whatever opportunity he can find. When the manager told him to toughen up and help the team get through the Chelsea game, he put in a performance that would make Sunday league footballers apologize a thousand times to their teammates.

These two were thrown under the bus and rightly so. For two reasons: Firstly, because there are players in the squad like Mata and Blind, who were perceived as goners by almost anyone who has an opinion about MUFC. The same bad manager told them that they can seek another destination where they will get first team football or they can stay at the club and fight for playing time by knowing that they're not the type of footballers he likes. Right now, they're both in the manager's plans and two of our best performers on the pitch. Why? Maybe because they chose not to bitch and moan all the time but get on with their job.

Secondly, disasters like the ones you all soothsayers predict often happen when the manager falls out with world class players who are vital for their teams. In our squad, if you take away De Gea, there's not a single player whose departure a club of our size and wealth can't sustain. From the two biggest prospects one (Rashford) is getting lots of playing time while the other (Martial) is getting more starts in "easier" games in order to shake off his personal issues.

This is a superb post.

Remember also that the brother slagged off one of Shaw's teammates during his rant, it's disgusting behaviour. Obviously it's not Shaw's fault but no doubt it's what Mourinho was hinting at with his comments yesterday regarding the people some players surround themselves with.

The last thing Shaw needs right now is a sense of entitlement.

 

[Santoryo]

Sod off mate. He did the right thing and that was to address the issue. He is challenging the players and there's nothing wrong with that.

Ok you lots have to start behaving yourselves. These sort of immature like reactions in the face of challenging or opposing views are quite annoying.

If you take issue with what I wrote then address the post in question, don't attack the person.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

He's absolutely right on this occasion, everyone arguing otherwise is basically a tad paranoid. Of course he can't be calling out players in the media constantly for a whole year, because then before no time he'll sound like a broken record and it backfires. But at this moment in time it's definitely justified, and I don't see why it's not a good idea.

It's not like Mourinho is a complete idiot by the way, just because he lost his shite last year. He's been in this long enough to know exactly what to do in pretty much every situation, and nine out of ten times his little stunts have a positive effect. He wasn't sounding like a man cracking up at all, starting to spout some gibberish for no reason. He very deliberatly said what he said, and rightly so.

We've not finished outside the top 3 during the last 20 fecking years of Sir Alex's reign, then the man leaves and now we've finished 7th, 4th and 5th, while playing like spineless boys most of the time. This season we have a squad that is comparable/interchangeable in terms of quality when compared to all the other top teams, yet we've already fallen behind a bit. We can't continue in the same fashion for the rest of the season.

Mourinho also specifically mentioned that these comments were not meant as a big statement to his players. He even explained that it's not just that some lads have to man up because he particularly likes that, but that everyone in the team needs to only be focused on what's for the good of the club. And he's right, it's time to go to the next level. Smalling and Shaw get singled out now by the media, but from his comments regarding the culture that surrounds some of his players, it's clear that this message wasn't just about playing through some pain.

We've dithered around spending god knows how many hundreds of millions, a bit of this, a bit of that, but there's still no clear structure or plan. It's time to set the hierarchy, seperate the men from the boys, take responsibility and start winning instead of whining. After the Arsenal game the title challenge will be in full force, and we will be challenging too, whether that's from 8 or 11 points behind Liverpool is actually irrelevant, as long as we wake the feck up and play every match with everything we've got.

 

[GaryLifo]

Are there honestly people on this forum who think Jose has just suddenly done this without having tried speaking to the players behind closed doors first?

He's the boss, and I support whatever decisions he makes, including calling out players on huge wages who are not fully committed to the United cause.

 

[The United]

I haven't even quoted him publicly slating Yaya and his agent, or publicly saying Nasri is overweight, that was just a few months ago.

Every manager does it, it's just Jose is made to be the devil incarnate when he does it.

why on earth we are bringing our biggest rivals's managers into this? I mean do you guys praise when they do well? So yeah lets take some shit we can find to excuse our own managers from anywhere we could see.

The fact that we are different squads, different situation and what more? different positions on table as well.

You know what is irony? Those managers didn't lose their squad yet and so far. Jose did with his title winning squad by doing it.

I mean you can twist it what you want. Most people who concerned about it concern because of his history with losing some dress rooms. How much he has won makes no difference because you can't win shit if you lose your dressing room first. Which is what we don't want to see here.

But, yes I agree we have to wait and see what will go on for now. It was just a concern for me.

 

[Manny]

exactly. Also there's plenty of hype surrounding young players these days. Take Shaw as an example. Everyone speaks about him as the next coming of the Christ. Sure he's got talent however he has not proven anything just yet. Same with Smalling and Jones. They won their first team place not because they were better then competition but simply because the first teamers of the time simply grew too old to do the job. That's not good enough

Shaw has been quite poor this season. He had a couple of performance at the 14-15 and 4-5 performances at the start of 15-16 and we have built him up to be a world class talent.

It suits the anti Jose agenda perfectly to use Shaw's drop in performances to slate him.

 

[Ban]

How?

He's the one who opened his mouth(after a win) and went on to talk about these players and all the drama. Now here we are stuck in a storm talking shit about the players and most of the headlines running about us are about all of the negative they could find from Mourinho's unnecessary comments.

Had Mourinho just done the decent thing and talk about taking positive from this win, trying to bounce back, carrying on and all that positive cliche, we nor the media would have been talking about all these negativity surrounding the club, at least not until another bad result.

But we couldn't have that. We need drama, so there it is. Started by our manager himself.

As I said. 5th post exactly the same as the others. drama, mouth, shit storm, negativity, headlines.

 

[ChrisNelson]

Thing is though this comes hot on the heels of reports (on various sites) of Mourinho's 'distant' methods and his lack of interaction with the players. We aren't going to have any success if the players resent the manager. Use Liverpool as exhibit A. You don't need to be a football genius to look at them this season and see how much they are enjoying themselves, and how much respect they have for the manager, who actually seems a genuinely nice guy. Right now I cannot see how acting in this manner is going to get us close to Liverpool who have a very good chance of winning the League. As do City, oh what a coincidence Pep has the respect of his squad and they are 2 points behind. Jose needs the respect and backing of his squad if we are to have any success, and this approach does not have any history of success.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Thing is though this comes hot on the heels of reports (on various sites) of Mourinho's 'distant' methods and his lack of interaction with the players.

Exactly the reason why some need a public shaming, the players leaks since SAF stepped down have been a complete disgrace.

 

[lysglimt]

So many people defending this bullshit. It's shocking management. Shut the feck up. Do it at the training ground, take a positive where you can find it. Who has ever seen this style of man-management working in any sphere? It's not them against us, that I can understand. It's us against us. I'm worried.

I think everyone knows that I am not Mourinho's biggest fan - but I am actually not opposed to this happening. Especially if Mourinho feels that Shaw and Smalling have done this before. With Shaw I know it has happened before and it could simply be Mourinho's way of saying "Final warning" - and it could also prove to be clever management (for once) as he now has highlighted the problem if he decides to cut the pair loose, and thus wont alienate the fans if it happened. And this is one thing I agree with when it comes to Mourinho - if you don't give 100% you have to go

 

[The United]

I think everyone knows that I am not Mourinho's biggest fan - but I am actually not opposed to this happening. Especially if Mourinho feels that Shaw and Smalling have done this before. With Shaw I know it has happened before and it could simply be Mourinho's way of saying "Final warning" - and it could also prove to be clever management (for once) as he now has highlighted the problem if he decides to cut the pair loose, and thus wont alienate the fans if it happened. And this is one thing I agree with when it comes to Mourinho - if you don't give 100% you have to go

Shaw has done it before? When? I might have missed it.

 

[Manny]

why on earth we are bringing our biggest rivals's managers into this? I mean do you guys praise when they do well? So yeah lets take some shit we can find to excuse our own managers from anywhere we could see.

The fact that we are different squads, different situation and what more? different positions on table as well.

You know what is irony? Those managers didn't lose their squad yet and so far. Jose did with his title winning squad by doing it.

I mean you can twist it what you want. Most people who concerned about it concern because of his history with losing some dress rooms. How much he has won makes no difference because you can't win shit if you lose your dressing room first. Which is what we don't want to see here.

But, yes I agree we have to wait and see what will go on for now. It was just a concern for me.

He lost those dressing rooms because he pandered to them somewhat in the first instance, they eventually won then he demanded even more and everyone lost their shit.

Here, we've won feck all for years and he's demanding hunger, fight and a high level of professionalism from the of, not a couple seasons down the line where it catches everyone off guard. This squad can't hide behind a league win from the previous season like the Real and Chelsea squads did.

 

[JPRouve]

Just look at the thread, people are now making wild speculations about the players and turning against them without any sorts of information and the press is going to do the same.

That's why Mourinho's actions are terrible in that case, you either say things completely or you shut the feck up and deal with culture problems behind closed doors.

 

[TrueRed79]

Just sack him, I've had enough sorry

Also coming from the guy who said Rashford is the most overrated player in history. No words.

Normally i would agree, but with the media 'leaks' that appear to be coming out from one (or two) players i think Joses comments are valid.

100% correct. I'm sick of these players behaving like wimps on the pitch. Nobody taking responsibility, ownership etc. It's been like this for 3 years and has to change. Jose has clearly had enough and i fior one am glad he has come out and called the players out. Fergie has said similar things in the past but it seems a lot of people around here have very short memories.

That approach has clearly helped us for the past 3 seasons. These players don't need any more to be molly cuddled.

Way too many pampered prima-donnas at our club. If you're gonna get paid a shitload of money to play at one of the biggest clubs around then you are sure as hell going to earn it. It's blindingly clear that some of these players are shrinking violets when the going gets tough. 7 away defeats in Europe in a row is absolutely pathetic from a club like us. Time for some seriously tough management. Am glad we have Jose.

 

[The United]

He lost those dressing rooms because he pandered to them somewhat in the first instance, they eventually won then he demanded even more and everyone lost their shit.

Here, we've won feck all for years and he's demanding hunger, fight and a high level of professionalism from the off, not a couple seasons down the line where it catches everyone off guard. This squad can't hide behind a league win from last season like the Real and Chelsea squads did.

Yeah because chelsea and madrid were in shit after he left because they couldn't fullfill his demands right?

Also, all the things he wanted to ask can do in dressing rooms, training pitches, in office, in houses etc. Why the need in public? Because he is scared to talk to them in person? Because fans can put pressure on them to perform? Like abusing the feck out of them?

Like we should boo them to encourage them right?

 

[VanGaalEra]

why on earth we are bringing our biggest rivals's managers into this? I mean do you guys praise when they do well? So yeah lets take some shit we can find to excuse our own managers from anywhere we could see.

The fact that we are different squads, different situation and what more? different positions on table as well.

You know what is irony? Those managers didn't lose their squad yet and so far. Jose did with his title winning squad by doing it.

I mean you can twist it what you want. Most people who concerned about it concern because of his history with losing some dress rooms. How much he has won makes no difference because you can't win shit if you lose your dressing room first. Which is what we don't want to see here.

But, yes I agree we have to wait and see what will go on for now. It was just a concern for me.

Because of the difference in reactions to when Jose does it and when they do it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just look at the thread, people are now making wild speculations about the players and turning against them without any sorts of information and the press is going to do the same.

Thing is, Shaw and Smalling are footballers... all they have to do to win back every single fan and become instant hero's again is perform. If anything they'll be bigger hero's than before if they come back and perform at their very best.

 

[The United]

Because of the difference in reactions to when Jose does it and when they do it.

Who the hell here actually supported and clapped those managers when they did it to their players?

In fact most of the time, we made threads to make fun of it.

 

[Manny]

Also, all the things he wanted to ask can do in dressing rooms, training pitches, in office, in houses etc. Why the need in public? Because he is scared to talk to them in person?

Why does everyone assume he hasn't already tried laying into them behind the scenes?

 

[The United]

Why does everyone assume he hasn't already tried laying into them behind the scenes?

If he fails at it, he is not the man to manage them. Don't you think?

Like i said we should boo them off so that they play better. Why not? Jose needs our help to straighten out the players.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Thoughts of the Chelsea fans on The Shed End:

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/29549-jose-mourinho-thread/?page=117

Wouldn't take much from what Chelsea fans think on the matter. After all I seem to remember them losing their rag at Costa and Fabregas last season and a large portion booing them during games. A lot also defended Mourinho during this time, now the goal posts have shifted and it concerns United, Jose is the villain and the players deserve protection.

 

[JPRouve]

Thing is, Shaw and Smalling are footballers... all they have to do to win back every single fan and become instant hero's again is perform. If anything they'll be bigger hero's than before if they come back and perform at their very best.

Then we need to change the fan culture, it's not for me but for Manchester United.

 

[Murray3007]

Bit ironic Jose trying to tell any one to man up after his comments the other week crying about living out a hotel.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Thoughts of the Chelsea fans on The Shed End:

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/29549-jose-mourinho-thread/?page=117

ha ha, the same fans who absolutely berated Cesc and Fabregas last season

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Bit ironic Jose trying to tell any one to man up after his comments the other week crying about living out a hotel.

Except he didn't, he just said living in a hotel away from the family is not ideal.

Do you disagree with that?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If he fails at it, he is not the man to manage them. Don't you think?

Like i said we should boo them off so that they play better. Why not? Jose needs our help to straighten out the players.

It could also mean they aren't the players for United, because if they won't listen to Jose, a manager of his stature, then who will they listen to? The people who keep telling them how great they are?