Juan Mata | 2013/14 Performances

[ItsEssexRob]

His first touch is outrageous, but overall a disappointing display.

I wish people would stop saying he must play rigidly behind the striker. The thought that playmakers or classic number tens must play behind the striker and nowhere else is just wrong. If Moyes' tactics are from the Jurassic, then this sort of thinking is from the Cretaceous.

Mata can play anywhere in an advanced position. If there is a problem with Mata playing on either the left or the right, then it is because of Moyes' tactics, not because of the player's inability to play there.

The Cretaceous came after the Jurassic. The Epoch you were looking for is the Triassic.

 

[AttackingFlair]

I don't think there was an issue with his position, he saw a lot of the ball for us and was able to be our playmaker.

 

[noodlehair]

Not been impressed so far.

Didn't doubt his talent, but thought he was a waste of money considering the type of player we actually need, and that Kagawa gets dropped even when he does play well.

He seems happy just being on the periphery of things, doing nothing of any real use...and he wants to start being less useless when we don't have the ball. I don't care what he did or didn't do at Chelsea. He should either be pressing the ball, tracking his man, or positioning himself. He does none of these things. He just sort of jogs around harmlessly as if he's gone into some kind of shutdown mode.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Not been impressed so far.

Didn't doubt his talent, but thought he was a waste of money considering the type of player we actually need, and that Kagawa gets dropped even when he does play well.

He seems happy just being on the periphery of things, doing nothing of any real use...and he wants to start being less useless when we don't have the ball. I don't care what he did or didn't do at Chelsea. He should either be pressing the ball, tracking his man, or positioning himself. He does none of these things. He just sort of jogs around harmlessly as if he's gone into some kind of shutdown mode.

Can't say I agree with all if that. For a start, he's one of our few players at the moment with the balls to actually ask/demand for the ball to played to him.

He actually tries to find space for himself and then wants the ball played to him in that space - a concept a lot of our other midfield players really seem to struggle with. He's also got 3 assists in 4 games, which isn't bad going really.

I think after a few more games of bedding in he'll be a massive asset for us.

 

[noodlehair]

Can't say I agree with all if that. For a start, he's one of our few players at the moment with the balls to actually ask/demand for the ball to played to him.

He actually tries to find space for himself and then wants the ball played to him in that space - a concept a lot of our other midfield players really seem to struggle with. He's also got 3 assists in 4 games, which isn't bad going really.

I think after a few more games of bedding in he'll be a massive asset for us.

He doesn't demand the ball that much, and most times he gets it he doesn't really do much. A couple of times tonight he sort of took it into a threatening area...but then he invariably just played it back out again. It looked like we'd borrowed one of Arsenal's midfielders, to be honest. At the moment his main asset seems to be controlling the ball in nice looking ways, which is hardly going to solve any of our issues.

Three assists is being very kind. That's a scuffed shot, a six yard pass that I could have played, and a goal Young created for himself out of nothing. If he's going to be the equivalent of us having ten men every time we give the ball away, he needs to be doing something a lot more meaningful when we get it back...otherwise he's going to be an all too literal replacement for Kagawa.

 

[Bebe]

We should be playing him behind one of RVP or Rooney.

 

[Adebesi]

Its tough coming into a team that isnt playing well, when you yourself havent played much football in recent months, and take the game by the scruff of the neck. He hasnt been quite the instant revelation people were hoping for admittedly, but its been a promising start, no reason to think he wont get better and better.

 

[bosnian_red]

He doesn't demand the ball that much, and most times he gets it he doesn't really do much. A couple of times tonight he sort of took it into a threatening area...but then he invariably just played it back out again. It looked like we'd borrowed one of Arsenal's midfielders, to be honest. At the moment his main asset seems to be controlling the ball in nice looking ways, which is hardly going to solve any of our issues.

Three assists is being very kind. That's a scuffed shot, a six yard pass that I could have played, and a goal Young created for himself out of nothing. If he's going to be the equivalent of us having ten men every time we give the ball away, he needs to be doing something a lot more meaningful when we get it back...otherwise he's going to be an all too literal replacement for Kagawa.

You're being way too harsh. He was arguably our best player in each of the last 3 games, not saying much but still the only one providing through balls and making chances. He's here to be our creative force and make chances, and he's made plenty already. He's the last person to blame for our current slump. Obviously he's not going to solve our problems. The manager will still be David Moyes and we'll still play this shite style of football under him. We still have to persist with Carrick/Cleverley/Jones/Fletcher or anyone else we decide to put in there in midfield. The rest of the team still has no movement as well.

All #10 players, no matter who you take, will struggle in our current system of crossing the ball in all the time or in a team that has no off the ball movement apart from when Mata/Kagawa move around opening themselves up to get the ball. We're slow to pass it around, we give the ball to him in positions where he can't hurt the opposition and because of that he wasn't that great today, especially as we hardly tried attacking.
He might not be the current fix we need, but he's definitely somebody we can and should be looking to build our team around to his strengths as well.

 

[100]

He's created a lot of openings in the last couple of games - the type of openings we've had trouble with in the past. He had a great through ball tonight from which RvP would normally do much better. The Stoke assist was quite good, it's the type of assist you'd see bypass the likes of Rooney for a ball played out wide or a shot.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

He doesn't demand the ball that much, and most times he gets it he doesn't really do much. A couple of times tonight he sort of took it into a threatening area...but then he invariably just played it back out again. It looked like we'd borrowed one of Arsenal's midfielders, to be honest. At the moment his main asset seems to be controlling the ball in nice looking ways, which is hardly going to solve any of our issues.

Three assists is being very kind. That's a scuffed shot, a six yard pass that I could have played, and a goal Young created for himself out of nothing. If he's going to be the equivalent of us having ten men every time we give the ball away, he needs to be doing something a lot more meaningful when we get it back...otherwise he's going to be an all too literal replacement for Kagawa.

Weird. One of the best players in the German league comes here and he's not that good. Then the player Scholes called the best player in the epl comes here and he's not that good.

Maybe, just maybe, there's a larger problem at hand.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Well frankly is there anyone playing well for us right now..in fact all season I can't really think of a player who has been playing well consistently aside form De Gea. You would be clutching at straws if you said Rooney or Januzaj.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

Well frankly is there anyone playing well for us right now..in fact all season I can't really think of a player who has been playing well consistently aside form De Gea. You would be clutching at straws if you said Rooney or Januzaj.

You are correct.

 

[Claymore]

And people wonder why Kagawa is playing awful or quite simply just not playing.... I mean lets buy Juan Mata for £37m and play him out of position. Great.

 

[Glanville95]

And people wonder why Kagawa is playing awful or quite simply just not playing.... I mean lets buy Juan Mata for £37m and play him out of position. Great.

It's not necessarily the position that's the issue, more so the system and style in which we play. Kagawa's a more extreme case, as he isn't as talented or adaptable as Mata but the same more or less applies to him too.

 

[noodlehair]

Weird. One of the best players in the German league comes here and he's not that good. Then the player Scholes called the best player in the epl comes here and he's not that good.

Maybe, just maybe, there's a larger problem at hand.

Yes maybe there is. Maybe the solution lies in not just ignoring problems in other areas of the team...or maybe we should stop picking one winger and one not winger. Either way signing the same type of player over and over for more and more money isn't exactly going to solve it...especially not when you refuse to play more than one of them in the same team.

His work when the opposition are on the ball just needs to improve though. That's down to no one but him. I know he supposedly doesn't like playing a wider role, but that's no excuse for the half arsed tracking players/jogging about. Perhaps he's better suited to positioning himself and letting other players worry about tracking, in which case it's poor management (extremely in fact...you spend £40m on a player you should have done some research on how to get the best out of them), but what he's been doing so far is useful in no way at all.

 

[jem]

Not been impressed so far.

Didn't doubt his talent, but thought he was a waste of money considering the type of player we actually need, and that Kagawa gets dropped even when he does play well.

He seems happy just being on the periphery of things, doing nothing of any real use...and he wants to start being less useless when we don't have the ball. I don't care what he did or didn't do at Chelsea. He should either be pressing the ball, tracking his man, or positioning himself. He does none of these things. He just sort of jogs around harmlessly as if he's gone into some kind of shutdown mode.

I missed today's game, so I can't comment there. I only caught the second half against Fulham, and for me, he looked a class apart from the rest of our players (although that's kind of damning with faint praise.)

I think he'll be fine, but it certainly looks like he's wasted on the wing. It might be worth sitting one of Rooney and RVP, and seeing how Mata does in the Rooney position. I also dream of seeing him and Kagawa on the field together, but I have a feeling that will never happen.

 

[jem]

Yes maybe there is. Maybe the solution lies in not just ignoring problems in other areas of the team...or maybe we should stop picking one winger and one not winger. Either way signing the same type of player over and over for more and more money isn't exactly going to solve it...especially not when you refuse to play more than one of them in the same team.

His work when the opposition are on the ball just needs to improve though. That's down to no one but him. I know he supposedly doesn't like playing a wider role, but that's no excuse for the half arsed tracking players/jogging about. Perhaps he's better suited to positioning himself and letting other players worry about tracking, in which case it's poor management (extremely in fact...you spend £40m on a player you should have done some research on how to get the best out of them), but what he's been doing so far is useful in no way at all.

This is the main point, and has been for years now. Why SAF and more recently Moyes, have persistently refused to address the glaring hole(s) in our midfield, I'll never understand (I've always thought that Fellaini's best position is where Rooney plays, thereby rendering him a pretty useless buy for us.) What's more, our rivals have addressed this area, so why can't we? While City, Chelsea and Tottenham have bought the likes of Matic, Fernandinho, and Paulinho, we've gone about compiling number 10s, resulting in a glaring hole in midfield, and a glut of players up front, which itself has lead to us shoehorning players like Mata and Kagawa into wide positions, and Fellaini into a deep-lying role, which his claims to the contrary notwithstanding, he has neither the passing nor positional sense to excel in.

 

[Claymore]

It's not necessarily the position that's the issue, more so the system and style in which we play. Kagawa's a more extreme case, as he isn't as talented or adaptable as Mata but the same more or less applies to him too.

Position, formation, style, training, its all the same kind of thing and all down to Moyes. Disagree about Kagawa, having watched him he's clearly one of the most talented with the football that we have in our squad.

SAF didn't exactly play him all the time, then there was the Rooney factor, just as there is for Mata, BUT Moyes won't bother with him at all. If he's good enough for Dortmund then he's good enough for us. No?

 

[Glanville95]

Position, formation, style, training, its all the same kind of thing and all down to Moyes. Disagree about Kagawa, having watched him he's clearly one of the most talented with the football that we have in our squad.

SAF didn't exactly play him all the time, then there was the Rooney factor, just as there is for Mata, BUT Moyes won't bother with him at all. If he's good enough for Dortmund then he's good enough for us. No?

I said he isn't as talented as Mata, but you're quite right, purely on ability he is one of the best in the squad.

It's too early to declare an issue with Mata, but if a potential issue arises, it'll certainly correlate to Kagawas.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Moyes goes and spends 37m on one of the most talented 10's around and plays him on the wing.

 

[mlclauhk]

Moyes goes and spends 37m on one of the most talented 10's around and plays him on the wing.

This.

It doesn't help that Rooney often drops deep to play that playmaker role, when all he does is slow play down considerably and try his best to look for the longest, furthest cross field pass he can make. Rooney needs to let someone else (Mata / Kagawa) do it - rather than trying to do everything himself.

 

[girish]

Will be better, when Moyes has the balls to play him behind the striker and drop one of Rooney or RvP.

 

[kouroux]

Mata can play on the wing, he's done so many times in his previous clubs. It's how he's asked to be play there that can either lead to great or average performances from him. Mata needs better movement around in order to show us his true footballing intelligence and movement is our biggest weakness this season. Not having players coming close to him and making runs behind the defense significantly reduce's Mata impact on the game. He's a great passer so let's use it.

 

[mlclauhk]

Mata can play on the wing, he's done so many times in his previous clubs. It's how he's asked to be play there that can either lead to great or average performances from him. Mata needs better movement around in order to show us his true footballing intelligence and movement is our biggest weakness this season. Not having players coming close to him and making runs behind the defense significantly reduce's Mata impact on the game. He's a great passer so let's use it.

Agreed he can play there, but its the awful style which we've grown accustomed too which is making it difficult for Mata, and to that extent Kagawa, to have any significant influence on the game.

 

[kouroux]

Agreed he can play there, but its the awful style which we've grown accustomed too which is making it difficult for Mata, and to that extent Kagawa, to have any significant influence on the game.

At Chelsea he had players like Oscar, Hazard and even Lampard who were all making runs around him and were combining much better with him than the current Utd players.

 

[Escobar]

Mata can play on the wing, he's done so many times in his previous clubs. It's how he's asked to be play there that can either lead to great or average performances from him. Mata needs better movement around in order to show us his true footballing intelligence and movement is our biggest weakness this season. Not having players coming close to him and making runs behind the defense significantly reduce's Mata impact on the game. He's a great passer so let's use it.

Same can be said about Kagawa. Moyes really should try it

 

[hungrywing]

In fact, you can replace all the 'Mata' with 'Kagawa' in kouroux's post and it works seamlessly.

If only could replace Moyes with real manager seamlessly! #evilkagawa

 

[kouroux]

Same can be said about Kagawa. Moyes really should try it

It would be even worse, Mata is a more talented player and who has cost a lot more money than Kagawa.

In fact, you can replace all the 'Mata' with 'Kagawa' in kouroux's post and it works seamlessly.

If only could replace Moyes with real manager seamlessly! #evilkagawa

It wouldn't be a surprise to see #evilmata appear.

 

[hungrywing]

I ask Moyes I am curious why Kagawa no play when just as good as me. Moyes smile and whisper 'Freedom', and walk away. Mata es scared like bullfighter. #evilmata

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with the signing of Mata. He is an absolutely world class player and you can't really afford to turn your nose on players like that especially in our situation. Just not sure why we signed him if he is being used as just a winger as he doesn't even fit Moyes' mould of a winger. Also just highlighting the hypocrisy that some have with the criticism to sign Van Persie.

Good God. How many times are people going to keep posting this drivel? How can anyone watch the game last night and think he played as a winger?

Even if you missed the game there's a million heat maps knocking round to disabuse you of that notion. Most of them in the last couple of pages of this thread.

Mata helped out his fullback whenever we lost the ball but as soon as we regained posession his first movement towards the centre of the pitch. Popped up all over the place. Winger, my arse.

 

[Varun]

oh sorry! I don't really know how to be any clearer on that point, maybe I'm getting mixed up and having 2 different convos.

my main point through all of this is we needed to play 4 flat midfielders today because arsenal will always have a lot of possession no matter what we do and we really need wide players to help contain them. People who were expected big changes in the second half to new attacking formations that we've never tried before, I just think that's an unrealistic expectation, and we were better served by doing what we did.

Today was never going to be the game when we switched to playing both Mata and Januzaj, I agree with that. That'l be reserved for one of the easier games. My point in general is that Mata puts in a good defensive shift, having him out wide is never going to be a problem. Also, with Januzaj being just 18, it can easily be worked upon his game too and we can play all 4.

 

[Bape]

Kagawa upgrade at the moment

 

[shaggy]

Had no chance of influencing the game that much with RvP off form, Rooney unable to control a ball and Valencia being Valencia. Wish we'd try him with Januzaj and Kagawa.

 

[Tibs]

He's the new Kagawa

 

[acnumber9]

I hope he's not going to be the new Kagawa in terms of any poor performances being anyone but his fault.

 

[Kostur]

Good God. How many times are people going to keep posting this drivel? How can anyone watch the game last night and think he played as a winger?

Even if you missed the game there's a million heat maps knocking round to disabuse you of that notion. Most of them in the last couple of pages of this thread.

Mata helped out his fullback whenever we lost the ball but as soon as we regained posession his first movement towards the centre of the pitch. Popped up all over the place. Winger, my arse.

It is repeated only to give shit to Moyes and nothing else. 'Hurr durr Mata on the wing, the clueless one'.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...1/team-stats/1/OVERALL_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Here's the heatmap from yesterday, it looks pretty much the same from any game Mata has played, maybe he's a bit more wide in the previous one but definitely not yesterday. Same applied to Kagawa.

 

[afrocentricity]

Thing is, we've all seen what he can do... give him time. If he still looks underwhelming (I thought he was ok) come end of the season then maybe the fault lies elsewhere?

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Mata the new Kagawa? I dont think so! Kagawas problem has been himself as much as tactics and position, even under SAF he flattered to decieve, and has had notable problems adjusting to the PL.

Mata on the other hand had 2 excellent seasons in the EPL and knows what its all about. Dont worry about heatmaps and meaningless statistics to try and prove something one way or the other, get him doing what he did for us, driving through the middle, playing killer passes to strikers and other midfielders.

The problem may lie in that with Oscar, Hazard and Torres we had 3 pacey players getting on the end of his balls, but then he didnt always require other players he was able to get into good positions and score himself. Although I think it might be unbalanced at first I agree I would like to see you play with him, Januzaj and Kagawa, even though im not sure Kagawa is good enough anymore.

He could be crucial in your next game, unlocking a tight defence, but he needs to stop pushing himself out wide, and passing it harmlessly, its four games in and although he looks the hungriest player, naturally, he looks a shadow of himself, and he doesnt need bedding in time.

His problem with Jose was he was too much of a free spirit, lacked the discipline and defensive duty, it seems Moyes already plays him in this way which must frustrate the hell out of him.

Whilst ive been a Moyes sympathizer over the months, it does frustrate me when you see the same thing over and over even if the results are poor.

If you always do, what youve always done. You'll always get what youve always got.

 

[Coxy]

Thing is, we've all seen what he can do... give him time. If he still looks underwhelming (I thought he was ok) come end of the season then maybe the fault lies elsewhere?

Like being played out of position?

Moyes needs to work out how to play Mata, Rooney, VP and Januzaj in the same team - but in positions they can play properly in..

 

[Godfather]

Kagawa upgrade at the moment

Kagawa was pretty good in his first season as well