I wouldn't be on here if I wasn't able to have my opinions challenged. It's just interesting that suddenly there's a feck load of Liverpool fans challenging literally every single opinion against your club. It's as if one season in the limelight has undone your years and years of failure.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I wouldn't be on here if I wasn't able to have my opinions challenged. It's just interesting that suddenly there's a feck load of Liverpool fans challenging literally every single opinion against your club. It's as if one season in the limelight has undone your years and years of failure.
Don't disagree. The point of my post was to turn around the opinion and say it back with a couple of tweaks to reverse the meaning. By doing that you realise that fans say stuff that can easily be said of them and their team but their perspective is so one-eyed they don't realise it.It's a United forum ffs, what do you expect ? Would you like us to send you one of those helium balloons with "well done on your one good season in years" on it ?
It's good for us all to have the tables turned, you can see United fans becoming bitter and calling every decision you get corrupt and you get to see just how fecking daft Liverpool fans have looked for the last 20 odd years for doing it. United fans get the feelings of bitterness seeing our rivals compete for league titles and having a laugh at our expense but with experience of seeing how daft you lot looked gobbing off from 7th and crawling from the woodwork here there and everywhere once the football on the pitch starts to match the talk off it.
United getting a few dodgy penalties is seemingly a completely different animal now your looking from inside of the box huh
It's common of all fans and it amuses me.
So you'd rather us not challenge your opinions then ?
People should be careful what they wish for if they want Liverpool fans off The Caf. It'll eventually become the very thing that you've mocked & derided all these years...........RAWK
The key phrase that you ignored in his post was 'feck load'. And it's hard to argue against, which is why you didn't I suppose.
My comments are in no way directed at you by the way, I said that I do like a lot of rival posters up here, but I'm sure that the mods will assess the situation correctly and offload at least a few that probably do belong on that God awful forum.
Gerrard is not better than Matic. Coutinho is not better than Oscar either.
Be fair Sniper.
Amuses me too although your probably finding it funnier just now
Your seeing things through what would be United's eyes and you find the fans opinions bizarre and hilarious and we're seeing it through yours but as I pointed out it's slightly different because I think we're more guarded (for now) as we have seen it all from the other side for so long and now how laughable it can sound, I seriously doubt the caf will become as mental as RAWK though, certainly be one or two nutters of course but if you look around you will see the majority praising Rodgers and Liverpool and openly admitting our own players/manager and clubs failings, that's something the majority of Liverpool fans have failed to embrace. Best players in each position, hugely overrating average to decent players, the cross the board overrating of a good manager, huge support and defense of a man found guilty of racist comments, mass defense of Stevie and his starfishery, it's like a completely different breed, it's much easier to say yea Youngs a diving twat and so was that Ronaldo kid.Threads on here about City getting soft pens and then again on yesterdays game where the second one was certainly soft but it's those criticisms coming your way is exactly what you want, it means your doing something right, will it last ? It might but it's been a strange old year and the Liverpool squad is punching above it's weight and has been hugely fortunate in having at least one of it's hitmen firing on all cylinders for the duration of the whole season (which is extremely rare). Injury wise there's been a back four and a midfield playing consistently together and also the forward two, you had the ban where Sturridge carried the team and then the ban lifted just in time for the Sturridge injury and Suarez coming in fresh, it's a season credited as much to good fortune as everything else but you need that luck in a tight race and looking back both City and yourselves have had a lions share (I think you've had Moyes share too) so we look to the weekend now and something got to give, I personally think it will be City who cave first but it's often not about who caves first but who caves last, Mourinho will still have a hand in this, you can bet your house on that.
I'll give the unpopular opinion that from what I've seen of RAWK, it's actually not as bad as people here make it out to be. Sure, you'll get your fair amount of crap spouted on it, but the RAWK thread can deceive. If they have an equivalent, you'd have posts in there about how Welbeck could be as good as Henry, how he'd score 20+ this season, how Van Persie was supposedly as good as Ronaldo and how Moyes was a wiser appointment for us than Mourinho. Every forum has it's fair share of biased nonsense, and I've not really spent enough time on RAWK to know what it's like, but it doesn't actually seem all that mental. From what I've seen of Bluemoon, it's a lot worse than RAWK for example.
Oh FFS. Really?
I for one am massively confused by the amount of Liverpool fans on here these days.
I mean, we’re a week into April at this stage. I was fairly sure that all the caf Liverpool fans went on a big group trip every March that lasted through to the end of June, maybe a business trip of some kind, or maybe some type of holiday.
Has this trip not happened this year? Is that why you’re all still here so late in the season?
I mean, we’re a week into April at this stage. I was fairly sure that all the caf Liverpool fans went on a big group trip every March that lasted through to the end of June, maybe a business trip of some kind, or maybe some type of holiday.
Has this trip not happened this year? Is that why you’re all still here so late in the season?
Blue Moon is a special place indeed.
To be fair, I'd be a bit annoyed if I was a Utd fan on here. It's pretty funny though.
For me he was, i saw the u17 world cup and remembered being dissapointed in a Brazil team that had won the South American championships at u17 and had added their most hyped up playing Neymar to the squad. Saying that in the games i watched, Coutinho stood out the most, including the game of the video i posted against Japan. At the time Coutinho was one of the few players on that team who had got a big money move to Europe, i remember Vickery in particular talking of the hype around the team and singling out Wellington Coutinho and Neymar in particular. He was being courted by Madrid at 15, also apart of the u 15 team that won the South American championships, a key player in that tournament to, scoring 3 goals in 4 matches?
Oscar would not come into the picture onto two years later, at the time it was Coutinho who was the number 10 and principle playmaker.
I don't deny he has been inconsistent throughout his career, but on sheer ability and natural talent i have him above Oscar.
I would have Gerrard over Matic as a DM in the system we play, i think as an out and out DM when you consider tackling, defensive contribution etc, Matic is obviously better, but i think we had that with Lucas, what Gerrard offers though like a Pirlo or Scholes before him(not saying he is as good as them in that position), is penetration and creativity from deep, in so much that as Pirlo at Juventus Rodgers building the midfield around him to accommodate him has been one of the defining decisions in us maintaining our title ascent.
As for Oscar and Coutinho, both are fantastic players, but Oscar has been so inconsistent this season that i don't think its outlandish to say i would take Coutinho over him, especially after me seeing him perform well in a CM position in some of our biggest games this season(Everton, Arsenal, Spurs both home and away). I think both our fantastic young players, but you could say there is a lot of bias that goes into my decision as well, obviously due to my allegiances.
At this stage ? No. Matic is a top dm. Tall, strong, surprising mobile has great technical ability. He is definitely the better footballer.
That's fair. Very well put across. I agree with your point about building around Gerrard. Something about Coutinho I don't like I can't put my finger on it. I see the technique and passing ability but something is off for me, he may well end up proving me wrong. Oscar had a good first half of the season, I think he's burnt out now, he's played more football than anybody over the last 2 years.
That's fair. Very well put across. I agree with your point about building around Gerrard. Something about Coutinho I don't like I can't put my finger on it. I see the technique and passing ability but something is off for me, he may well end up proving me wrong. Oscar had a good first half of the season, I think he's burnt out now, he's played more football than anybody over the last 2 years.
Agree to disagree in regards to Matic and Gerrard. But i understand your aversions in regards to Coutinho. At times he can be incredible inconsistent with his passing, and this season his frustrated me to no end with hos new found obsession with shooting on sight, possibly down to the pressure of trying to break through into the world cup squad. What i always say in regards to young players though is that it is better to judge them on their highs, as at a young age their bound to be inconsistent. Even the likes of Neymar Gotze and Isco who are better talents than Coutinho haven't failed to match the hype they had at the start of the season.
What i've seen from Coutinho in terms of highs though makes me believe he can be a real top player when he finally puts it altogether, i've seen him play some of the best passes i've seen a player play at this club, and i've also seen him go on mazy runs past 3,4 players at time almost effortlessly, apart from that the fact that he has shown he has a gritty more cynical side to his game which as impressed me the most, he's played CM in some of our biggest games this season and not bat an eyelid, handled the physicality of these fixtures very well also, i feel he can be an incredible player in the very near future, there is not a part of his game where he lacks considerably.
Jesus Snipe, you are a parody of Liverpool fan of the previous era. Every Liverpool player is best ever. In other thread you are going about Gerrard being better than Scholes, Keane, Vieira etc.. now Coutinho has more talent than Oscar because of half a season.. Sterling probably the best young player about as well.
Remind of the time when Pool fans claimed Dudek was best GK about, Hyppia best CB in the league, Owen best forward, Gerrard best CM etc.. yet you never won the league.
Remind of the time when Pool fans claimed Dudek was best GK about, Hyppia best CB in the league, Owen best forward, Gerrard best CM etc.. yet you never won the league.
4 transfer windows, or 230 tranfer days, or 5520 transfer hrs or 3,31,200 transfer minutes. You can try put in which ever way you want, it won't change the fact that he has spend £100m in two season since he was first appointed. Neither is that sum an absolute pittance on it's own nor is it in comparison to any other club.
That is the only point I made in relation to some one suggesting that Rodgers had worked miracles without spending much, which is simply not true. £40m Suarez and Henderson are also part of your squad. He has made an under performing squad perform to it's maximum limit and all credit to him. I never denied it. The need to add extras in order to project him some kind of miracle worker, who works in depravity is what tempted me to make my earlier post.
What has this got to do with anything? Everyone criticizes Moyes for under-performing in spite of a good squad and new additions. How is this even relevant to this discussion? Are we going to act like pathetic and immature man-childs and go into a "my daddy strongest" contest? Or was the purpose to make this into a ghetto style 'Yo mamma' bitchfest?
No offence taken, my friend. He is a grade A bullshitter, and hence I called him Mr. Bullshit, albeit playfully and without a hint of malice. Though the outrage on some innocuous labelling from each and everyone member of the Liverpool support on here has amused me a great deal. So, don't be shy in using them in future too in reference to me. I am always up for a good laugh.
Wumming, even if unintentional, shouldn't be the sole birth right of the opposition supporter. I am sure you would agree, my mature scouse mate.
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Well, he wasn't coming from some position higher up to take a step down at Liverpool. It was his chance to manage a big club, with a substantial budget and he took it. Some of them were flops and a couple of them very good, e.g, Suarez.
I don't understand the outrage since I never mentioned that he hasn't done a terrific job. But can we agree that he hasn't worked on "absolute pittance"? Please, can we?
Funny, we won the league multiple times but our squad is dog shite ageing and past it. Even the best striker in the league needs to be sold. The whole team needs to rebuilt.
Are we the antithesis of RAWK just for the sake of it?
Thanks for the advice. Keep them to yourself from next time.
There was a time when Agger-Skrtel was the best defensive partnership.
Exactly. As if we are supposed to bow down and except that everything Liverpool is the best.
They haven't even won anything yet.
I guess the difference this season is that those players you mentioned are in the league's best team right now so adulation is kind of expected.
As for Owen, Gerrard and Hyypia - they're odd examples as each were superb and a reasonable debate is to be had in thise cases. There are surely other better examples of players that were never top class but were heralded as such - I'll give you the Dudek one to be fair.
Amuses me too although your probably finding it funnier just now
Threads on here about City getting soft pens and then again on yesterdays game where the second one was certainly soft but it's those criticisms coming your way is exactly what you want, it means your doing something right, will it last ? It might but it's been a strange old year and the Liverpool squad is punching above it's weight and has been hugely fortunate in having at least one of it's hitmen firing on all cylinders for the duration of the whole season (which is extremely rare). Injury wise there's been a back four and a midfield playing consistently together and also the forward two, you had the ban where Sturridge carried the team and then the ban lifted just in time for the Sturridge injury and Suarez coming in fresh, it's a season credited as much to good fortune as everything else but you need that luck in a tight race and looking back both City and yourselves have had a lions share (I think you've had Moyes share too) so we look to the weekend now and something got to give, I personally think it will be City who cave first but it's often not about who caves first but who caves last, Mourinho will still have a hand in this, you can bet your house on that.
Good post. I will defened RAWK *ducks* in the sense that it it a huge forum with thousands of members and only the funniest get an airing on here. I have been a member of that forum since 2004 and it has some very good writers and good discussion. The sub-forums on non football stuff are often very good to read through.
I have not seen that either of them were bad players. There is difference between one of the best and best anyway. Hyppia was never league's best and as good as Owen was he was never in Henry or Ruud's bracket either.
Liverpool forums around that time were always going on about how their 11 compared favorably to ours every season and yet they never got close to winning the title bar an odd occasion. Every set of fans overrate their players but Pool fans on the interweb go way over the top. I still remember all the Carnage stuff Cisse pawned off when get got there, he was a mixture of Trezeguet and Henry according to them.
They are part of a well functioning machine. That does not make them the best player in that position. Barring Suarez, I don't think Liverpool can claim to have the best player in any single position of the pitch.
That's an opinion and it's a reasonable position but the fact that Liverpool are top, their players are playing brilliantly at times means that it is also a reasonable position to put forward the case for certain players. E.g. Is it unreasonable to argue that Sterling is the league's best teenager this season? Is it unreasonable to suggest that Sturridge is the second best striker this season? Is it unreasonable to argue that Gerrard is the league's best captain/leader this season? Is it unreasonable to argue that Coutinho has been better than most since the New Year at opening defences, etc?
You may not agree with these positions but it's not deluded stuff. A healthy and sensible debate can be had about any of those points.
Again, there was a debate to be had about Owen - he was European Footballer of the Year in 2001, why would Liverpool fans not then praise him in high terms? Coupling that with the Cisse stuff is misleading and the two do not equate. To argue Owen was the best at what he did (in 2001 before Henry had emerged) was not delusional, the media were screaming it and Owen's face was everywhere. The Cisse point is pretty minor, as very few would have really argued he was the best - maybe one or two but that happens.
You can definitely have a reasonable debate about those things. Especially about Sturridge as I do rate him as the second best forward in the league this season. But overall he is still behind Rooney and Van Persie for me.
The point in bold is a nothing point. It is so intangible that you cannot even start to discuss it. I can say that his "leadership" plays no part in your play. I will have nothing to back it up as there are no stats to prove it. Anyway, I don't think he the best leader/captain. I will put JT higher for example.
I know what you are saying, but you worded it wrong...Coutinho did not get a lot of national attention like some of the others because he played in Série B with Vasco at club level. But at the small youth tournaments and competition, Coutinho scored a lot. 38 goals in 2007, 34 goals in 2008. But the major tournament, he wasn't notable unlike Wellington and Neymar.
Coutinho stagnated in performance, Oscar skyrocketed. I remember the hype Isco was getting in 2011 in the U20 WC, Oscar easily outplayed him...and then scored 3 goals in the final. Add in his level with Internacional and you get someone rated very highly unlike Coutinho who was consistently average or below average with Inter at the same age, although it was tougher to adapt. Oscar was regularly discussed, but he had injuries when he was still 16 or 17 unlike Coutinho or Neymar.
I don't know why it's seen as something wrong, I do think Coutinho is more talenetd in terms of ability than Oscar. better playmaker, better passing, better dribbler, doesn't have tunnel vision, but I like Oscar more than Coutinho personally
It wasn't the outrage it's the fact his current status as a Premier League manager is pretty decent I would say.
Your "fiddle" comment we found a good laugh because we feel at the moment he is doing just fine, long may he continue playing it!
A lot of the stuff that's debated between players is intangible. Heck, even when one uses stats as empirical evidence to support a point people say "you can prove anything with stats". The whole thing is couched in intangibles be it who is the best leader or who is the best striker.
An example is Sturridge's relentless goalscoring (think he's scored in more matches than any other player this season) but people find ways of reducing these achievements either by saying it's a purple patch or having a go at the things he doesn't do on the pitch. The evidence gets in the way of people's own opinions which are cluttered full of intangibles and prejudices.
Yes but the facts won't change because of people's prejudices. But when we talk about "best leader on the pitch this season", it makes little sense because you are not seeing every match out there and there could be better leaders in lower teams than Steven Gerrard.
It's certainly impossible to compare like for like but there can be no denying he is a fantastic leader who leads by example. There are of course many others though, Kompany & Terry to name a few. To be honest that is one of areas which you're missing. Rooney is not captain material in my opinion. Great player but losses the head far too easily and I don't know who is the perfect fit in your team anymore with the old skool all on the way out.
But if Liverpool do go on to win the league this year, with the performances he has put in and considering the giant strides taken this year, I don't think there can be any doubt about this season alone.
But if Liverpool do go on to win the league this year, with the performances he has put in and considering the giant strides taken this year, I don't think there can be any doubt about this season alone.
I've read on here how Welbeck is better than Sturridge even though the stats says something else - but people's bias sways their perspective even if the facts allude to the opposite.
You'll find that a majority of the Welbeck better than Sturridge comments were from prior to this season. I held the same view too.
What has that got to do with what I said? Facts will not change no matter what people think. But something like captaincy and leadership cannot be based on facts. Just based on what your perception is. That obviously will vary from one person to the next.
This!Hope their amusing comments disappear as quickly as the Arsenal brigade's earlier this season who wanted to convince everyone how RvP made a mistake and if only he had stayed a bit longer. Well yeah, if only. Then he wouldn't have won a PL trophy after all but would be competing for the glorious 4th place trophy again. But tbf those Arsenal fans were still nowhere as many as the Liverpool fans at the moment or let's say those Arsenal fans are always posting and not only on their honeymoon period like most of these Liverpool posters.
Up to City to end their honeymoon!