Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don't know where this idea that any United fan settles consistently for the 4th place is coming from. All I see people talking about is that it was ok to do so in the last season because of the context. I wouldn't even be happy if we just got the 4th again this season.
Edit: Also you think our squad is only capable of achieving the 4th or the 5th??? That's some negativism mate.
good post.
United's fans accepting fourth last season when they'd finished seventh the year before is fine for a season. I doubt many would find fourth a "success" this season. If United fail to finish higher than fourth, one could argue van Gaal and United haven't made good enough progress and that van Gaal and his coaching staff should move on. Rebuilding jobs take time. The one van Gaal was given was a big rebuild IMO. @Rich_H_1989 likes to talk about United finishing fourth because of the shortcomings of others, does he believe Chelsea won the league because of that last season? They were unchallenged pretty much from the start. It's fine to point it out, but United themselves were able to take advantage of the shortcomings of others. News flash here: United can only look after themselves and nothing else.
Jheez, he's been here 15 months, not 3 years.
Ugh. This is exactly the kind of rubbish I had to put up with in the newbie forum, I was really hoping people wouldn't be so short-sighted once I got to the mains. What is the club's philosophy? How could you put it into words? I'll tell you one thing for certain: it has nothing to do with one particular style of play or another. When you talk about a club's values, you should be talking about promoting youth, no player being bigger than the club, those kind of broad-reaching values that are possible no matter what financial or competitive state the club is in. Don't tell me that the club has a philosophy that dictates it play a particular way, because that isn't only wrong, its also actively counterproductive. That's the Arsenal mentality: "Oh we'll try to win, but we're more interested in aesthetics than glory". That's the attitude of perpetual runners up.
Let me also clarify; I don't like the football we're playing currently. It really is pretty awful to watch. But boring football is beside the point when we're looking at the larger project that Van Gaal, and the club as a whole, is taking on. Given where we were two years ago, the fact that we're competitive at all is a blessing. People really underestimate how big a job needed to be done, and how long it would take to do it. I am absolutely sick to death of people like you moaning about how our willingness to play poor football to get to the top means we've regressed as a club. Of course we've regressed. We were always going to once Ferguson left. But we're rebuilding, and that takes time, patience, and an ability to appreciate progress. Why are we setting up in a way that makes us hard to beat? Because our attacking players aren't good enough yet to play the kind of football you're talking about, and Van Gaal knows this! But it goes deeper than that. You can't be a champion team, playing expansive, attacking football unless you're also strong in midfield and solid at the back. Last season we were cut apart in midfield, and made to look like children at the back. Van Gaal identified our biggest weakness, and addressed it emphatically. Attacking football will follow.
By the way, Ferguson didn't always play attractive football! Some of his away games in the champions league, and even some away games in the league, were hugely average. Playing football that suits our needs isn't a mentality that weakens our club. It's a champions mentality. It's the mentality that establishes dynasties. And if you asked the greatest champion this club has ever seen, he'd tell you the same.
One final thing for you to remember. No one here, not you, me, the mods, or anyone else on this forum, knows better how to manage a football team, and make it successful, than Louis Van Gaal. With his decades of experience and rich football education, we cannot hope to have thought of anything Van Gaal himself has not thought of 3 times over.
Amen sista.
My biggest gripe is when people moan about how much we have spent in the last 3 years.
Compare it to our rivals and see what the competition is like, then consider how many of our players were replacements rather than squad strengtheners.
Then consider the age of our squad and we're in great shape.
I'm pretty sure he was one of the ones who said Liverpool would finish above us when Klopp took over.
Yup. That money's going to look like peanuts in the next five years. We've invested in players that will be the club's future spine.
One of the best posts I've seen on this forum in recent times. Well said.
Why is it negativism and not being realistic? Our defence is good but nothing special. OK Smalling has been superb but the jury is out on whoever partners him. With Shaw out at left back that's another worry.
On paper our midfield is great but I'm yet to see it be truly fantastic. Schneiderlin looks a steal as a DM but Schweinsteiger and Carrick are yet to hit top form. And given their age it's no guarantee that they will.
Up front its hit and miss but mainly miss. Martial is the stand out player but he can't carry us all year. Rooney has been worse than terrible whilst Memphis is yet to take off. Will he? Maybe in time but so far it's a no. Mata has played well in games and others he's been average. So our attack as we've said for some time isn't anything special. So no I don't think this team is capable of anything above 4th. With some luck and an outstanding season 3rd maybe.
I'm sorry I must be mistaken... This isn't a football forum to voice your opinion then? It's a website to agree and Support LVG is it? Not what I thought a forum was to be honest. OK I'm not LVG, I don't have his experience at managing a football club. But I'm allowed to voice my opinion on things. If he's such a genius then why is Rooney still playing? Despite being useless all season in every game! David Moyes has bags of experience, didn't stop him being a huge failure at the club. Just because he's proven before does not mean he'll be a success at United.
I have to say though... There's a lot of anti LVG supporters on this site. I've seen lots of criticism of him. And yet here I am the only one fighting the corner against him. Where have that all gone
!I have to say though... There's a lot of anti LVG supporters on this site. I've seen lots of criticism of him. And yet here I am the only one fighting the corner against him. Where have that all gone
We're two points off the top whilst still in transition. There's not much need for criticism right now. Patience, however..
I read all of Rich's post in Macaulay Culkin's voice. I don't know why.
Probably the best indicator that you are doing this wrong, when you are not finding support even from the moaning and complaining contingent here.
Blah Blah
I have to say though... There's a lot of anti LVG supporters on this site. I've seen lots of criticism of him. And yet here I am the only one fighting the corner against him. Where have that all gone
Probably the best indicator that you are doing this wrong, when you are not finding support even from the moaning and complaining contingent here.
Yep, I'd go along with a lot of what you said. I do feel a bit sorry for the paying matchday fans however seeing such tumescent uninspiring football. I mean it ain't cheap...especially if you take the family. At the end of the day big business has spoilt a lot of the entertainment value of football. Due to the vast sums of dosh on offer in the PL, teams are certainly very afraid to lose these days and there is no doubt this has had a unfortunate negative effect on the game as a whole.
Louie has done a stellar job shifting the shit fromy the squad he inherited - it was awful. Almost nothing worth keeping.
We have bought some good players. It's a shame Di Maria didn't come off - he was a pus' to be fair.
Time to move Rooney and Valencia on too.
Right now we have a thin squad with a fair amount of 'good' players, a top class centre back and GK, mademan Schweini and a superstar in the making in Martial. Also, Shaw will be a world beater I think.
We need 4-5 more top players and we will be a real squad at the top again. That will cost a fortune of course.
We have bought some good players. It's a shame Di Maria didn't come off - he was a pus' to be fair.
Time to move Rooney and Valencia on too.
Right now we have a thin squad with a fair amount of 'good' players, a top class centre back and GK, mademan Schweini and a superstar in the making in Martial. Also, Shaw will be a world beater I think.
We need 4-5 more top players and we will be a real squad at the top again. That will cost a fortune of course.
And yet in every match day and post match thread it's mainly negative comments. In fact people are constantly fed up with the amount of negativity on here.
Look it's not all negative of course it's not. And I don't mean to make it seem that way. Hell we could be Chelsea!!! But this thread is about LVG and his performance. And as far as I'm concerned he's not delivered as we'd hoped and he's not right for the job.
That boils down to personal choice. I don't enjoy watching the team and I'm at a point where it's about entertainment for me more than anything. I also don't think for all the money he's spent that it's been spent well. So OK it's unfair to judge him on how much he's spent but it's fair to judge him on what he's spent the money on. He's bought the players and in some cases they just aren't good enough.
I honestly think it is as simple as this: If he's not delivered at least one major trophy (only the PL and CL counts here) when his three year contract is up, then we can say 100% that he's not delivered. However, even if that happens then I'm confident that the team will be in a very good shape for his successor. Let's wait and see!
About the players that he's bought, who has not been good enough? I can only think of di Maria and Falcao (who was just a loan).
Memphis - not a good start, but he's very young and came highly rated. Give him time.
Blind - Brilliant squad player
Morgan - Maybe muppet target #1 this summer and he's done quite well for us so far.
Bastian - BFS
Martial - He's going to be a bloody super star
Rojo - I've been critical of him, but at the very least he's going to be a solid squad player. So far he's done very well at LB and I expect him to be the #1 choice there until Shaw is back
Shaw - Maybe the best LB in the league already, and if he's not lost anything due to the injury he's going to play for us for the next decade.
Herrera - Fan favorite
Romero - Free transfer, doesn't matter
Valdes - Free transfer, doesn't matter
Darmian - Had a little bit of a rough patch recently, but he looks the real deal to me.
About the entertainment part, that's subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion about that obviously. I don't care, I just want to see the team win/being set up to return to winning ways quite soon and I believe that LvG is going in the right direction with regards to that. I wouldn't want LvG as our manager for the best part of a decade, but I believe in him to rectify the mess the club was in and put us back on track.
@SirAF OK some are happy to wait until the end of his contract and maybe that's the right thing to do. But my opinion is that it's too long because I personally don't think he's right for the club. But at the end of the day it boils down to opinion.
As for his signings well here are my thoughts:
ADM - great signing on paper. Excited us at first but didn't work out for him. These things happen though I do place some blame with the manager. Not completely but he is partly to blame.
Falcao - I'm not sure any of us thought he'd be that bad all season. You can't blame the club for taking him on so no I don't blame LVG.
Blind - jury is out there. Decent player but he isn't brilliant. Good squad player that can fill in at a number of roles. But the team was crying out for real quality.
Rojo - not working in my eyes. He's done OK at times at LB when he's not against someone with pace. Doesn't seem to be that rated by LVG either so why sign him?
Shaw - great signing for the future. But having (or at least was) a real impact. But wasn't that a Moyes signing? I believe it was that LVG agreed to.
Martial - as above.
Memphis - so far not very good. Potential but will he fall in to the category of mishit? I hope not and it's early days.
Herrera - LVG not really sure how to use him and again it was a Moyes signing that LVG agreed to.
Romero - free signing but one that's cost us points!
Valdes - free signing, great business but in typical LVG fashion he fell out with him. OK there is blame on them both.
Darmian - started off really well... Looks good defensively but doesn't offer much going forwards. Good signing though.
Schneiderlin - great signing.
Schweinsteiger - not really having the impact we'd like? Good player who's not been poor but he's not been brilliant either. Solid but not what we'd all hoped.
As for his signings well here are my thoughts:
ADM - great signing on paper. Excited us at first but didn't work out for him. These things happen though I do place some blame with the manager. Not completely but he is partly to blame.
Falcao - I'm not sure any of us thought he'd be that bad all season. You can't blame the club for taking him on so no I don't blame LVG.
Blind - jury is out there. Decent player but he isn't brilliant. Good squad player that can fill in at a number of roles. But the team was crying out for real quality.
Rojo - not working in my eyes. He's done OK at times at LB when he's not against someone with pace. Doesn't seem to be that rated by LVG either so why sign him?
Shaw - great signing for the future. But having (or at least was) a real impact. But wasn't that a Moyes signing? I believe it was that LVG agreed to.
Martial - as above.
Memphis - so far not very good. Potential but will he fall in to the category of mishit? I hope not and it's early days.
Herrera - LVG not really sure how to use him and again it was a Moyes signing that LVG agreed to.
Romero - free signing but one that's cost us points!
Valdes - free signing, great business but in typical LVG fashion he fell out with him. OK there is blame on them both.
Darmian - started off really well... Looks good defensively but doesn't offer much going forwards. Good signing though.
Schneiderlin - great signing.
Schweinsteiger - not really having the impact we'd like? Good player who's not been poor but he's not been brilliant either. Solid but not what we'd all hoped.
This is a good post overall.
You hit the nail on the head with the lack of depth in the back. Ideally we'll sign another Center back and possible a right back as well to provide more depth. As well our glaring lack of alternative options to Rooney and Martial at center forward is a big questions mark. At this point the biggest factor holding back our title charge has been our lack of goals and I blame Van Gaal's stubborn insistence on playing Rooney despite his poor form.
To me there are a few critical factors that will shape how we finish the rest of the season. Can we keep Jones and Smalling healthy? They are one of the best pairing in the league and starting to fulfill their potential. (Smalling is the best CB in the league imo.)
How long will it take Van Gaal to drop Rooney? I would like to see Martial in the 9 spot and Wilson on the bench. We need pace in attack to stretch defenses to create more space for our creative players such as Mata and Herrera to thrive. The goals for stats below shows we have the lowest # of goals scored of any team in the top 6. If this team can add goals I honestly believe we can put forward a realistic title challenge to City & Arsenal.
Wide table Home & Away Form tables Top scorers Attendance
Rk GP W D L GF GA GD Pts form ppg cs fts
1 Manchester City 10 7 1 2 24 8 +16 22
2.20 60% 10%
2 Arsenal 10 7 1 2 18 8 +10 22
2.20 50% 30%
3 West Ham Utd 10 6 2 2 22 13 +9 20
2.00 30% 0%
4 Manchester Utd 10 6 2 2 15 8 +7 20
2.00 60% 30%
5 Leicester City 10 5 4 1 20 17 +3 19
1.90 10% 0%
6 Tottenham 10 4 5 1 16 8 +8 17
1.70 40% 30%
Just the thought of this
Not sure about that:
RB: Valencia, Darmian
LB: Shaw, Blind, Rojo, Darmian
CB: Smalling, Jones, Blind, Rojo, McNair, Darmian
That's as good a selection as anyone else in the league, the flexibility of each player is a real bonus.
Final paragraph can't be emphasised enough. Great post.
I'm fed up of Van Gaal right now simply because of his reluctance to drop Rooney (I'm aware that's short-sighted) but he's a fine manager and he hasn't done much wrong since he got here.
He's someone who we'll look back on appreciating more than we do now.
The man has balls, the Martial transfer has hit the jackpot with us for many, many years to come. Was a risky transfer.
The man has balls, the Martial transfer has hit the jackpot with us for many, many years to come. Was a risky transfer.
I've been a fairly big critic of LVG, I've found it hard to like the guy and have found our football boring. So even though I may moan, I've never gone out asking for him to be sacked. It's like many things in life, we complain but we wouldn't be so quick to get rid of. He's done many good things here.
The way I see it, high quality football can be produced in a number of ways, however certain aspects of even the highest quality can be dull to watch.
We've made improvements, as we should expect and demand but there is still room for improvement.
The way I see it, high quality football can be produced in a number of ways, however certain aspects of even the highest quality can be dull to watch.
We've made improvements, as we should expect and demand but there is still room for improvement.
Have the people that say this actually been to a prem game at OT this year ? It isn't as good as 07/08 but the football really isn't as bad as some try to make out. We've clearly improved from last year.
We definitely need another top class CB to partner Smalling. In terms of depth it's OK if we address that issue. Jones, Blind and even Rojo are all decent enough back ups. I'm not buying in to Jones but as a back up he's as good as anyone that other clubs have.
Numbers at the back isn't an issue... It's the lack of quality that worries me. I'm not sure it's as good as what our rivals have. Rojo and Jones just don't do it for me. They don't fill me with confidence. That said to step in from time to time that's fine but not as starting players.
My choice would have been "sack him yesterday" if that was an option. What a terrible manager he is. Awful. Feel sorry for the players having to work for him.
Nice try, Moyes!
Classic. That's our benchmark, isn't it? LVG is not doing any better and if you take into account his leadership method one can argue he is doing a lot of damage to our club. The argument he is building for our futur is total bollocks and a sad idea.
Van Gaal not doing any better than Moyes is an irrefutably stupid observation.
Depends if you are blindfolded or not.
I'm no LVG fan, but the comparisons to Moyes are silly in terms of 'he's not doing any better'. You can't compare Moyes' not even a full season vs LVG into his second season. However what can be compared is the style of football... Both of which are quite frankly terrible to watch.
Hey, keep it clean.
What has a blindfold got to do with being two points off the top, playing Champions League football, winning the majority of our games, having the best defence and home record in the country and trimming almost all of the deadwood in the space of 15 months?
As soon as anyone criticizes LVG, the Moyes jerkers come out, it's sad.
But I agree with you. In LVG's case I believe we are seeing how his managing skills off the pitch are displayed on the pitch. LVG needs to leave.
It's October.
Which has naff all to do with what you said about Moyes.
He has his issues but the idiotic individual performances cannot be blamed on him.
Think the players thought they could just turn up. Never seen so many unforced errors in a match.