Out of curiosity, assuming one of Modric or Bale leave this summer, who would you prefer to keep?
Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid
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Out of curiosity, assuming one of Modric or Bale leave this summer, who would you prefer to keep?
We got VdV, who is effectively a 2nd striker.
Very tough choice, but if forced I'd keep Modric.
That's obviously not true.
Being able to offer CL football makes a huge difference to the quality of player that Spurs can realistically go for.
If Chelsea don't beat Bayern Munich, many of your potential transfer targets will look at your league position this season, shudder at the prospect of having to play in the Europa league next season, look at the significant number of ageing players in your squad ... and decide to go elsewhere.
So your argument has gone from Spurs can sign a quality striker to Spurs can sign a quality striker as long as they're in the Champions League to Spurs signed 'effectively' a 2nd striker the last time they were in the Champions League :/
Lets be honest you haven't got the money available to bring in a quality striker, VDV cost you 8m and good player though he is he's no more a striker than Gareth Bale is.
If you had 30m to spend on a striker you'd have done it by now
Who says we need to spend as much 30m to get a quality striker?
It sounds like you're too caught up in the "big-club-money-bags" syndrome ... you'd be better of focusing on the merits of developing a quality scouting system.
As for VdV and Bale, they each scored more goals and made more assists than did many Prem strikers ... so who cares whether or not you regard VdV as effectively a 2nd striker or not.
Is that what Spurs are doing then? Because you could of fooled me missing the boat completely on the likes of Hernandez, Ba and Cisse in recent years, in fact tell me the last player Spurs signed who was an unknown because if anything Spurs have one of the most limited scouting systems in the PL.
You're right about not having to spend 30m to get a striker but if you're scouting team is as inept as it appears that's what you're gong to have to do.
Lennon for 1m, Ekotto for 3m, Walker for 5m, Bale for 7m and Sandro for 7.85m all say otherwise.
To put it another way, Man. Utd spend more on De Gea, Jones and Young last summer than Spurs spent on all of the above Spurs players + Modric + VdV
Go figure ...
Lennon was bought 7 years ago. Before the inflation of the market. They also got him on the cheap because of Leeds' financial troubles.
Of all the players you mentioned only Ekotto was unknown to me when they were signed. Walker wasn't cheap for his time.
You hardly answered with much relevance based on what you quoted.
Of all the players you mentioned only Ekotto was unknown to me when they were signed. Walker wasn't cheap for his time.
You hardly answered with much relevance based on what you quoted.
Let's not take the definition of 'unknown' to extremes or else the discussion loses most of its point. So we're talking about relatively unknown as far as the average Prem football fan is concerned - and Walker at the time was relatively unknown (played in the Championship). Ditto Sandro (played for Internacionale in S. America). Bale less so, but again he came to Spurs from the championship.
You say that 5m for Walker "wasn't cheap for his time", but the whole point in relation to this discussion of scouting systems is that in retrospect 5m was a bargain basement price and that he'd cost a lot more than that now.
As for Lennon, again he was relatively unknown before he came to Spurs
and the low price could have applied to any club that tried to sign him - but the fact is that Spurs came in for him and other clubs didn't.
He just wasn't. You constantly undermine your arguments by making these sorts of daft claims.
I can personally see him going to Chelsea myself. Either way, it's a big likelihood for me. If Chelsea win the CL final, he'll have the lure of Champions League football that he wouldn't have otherwise at Spurs. If they don't win it though, I expect Abramovic to really break the bank to get them back in. The lure of a massive transfer fee for Tottenham and masive wages for Modric himself would be really tempting.
If Chelsea lose in the CL final the chances of Modric going to Chelsea will be zero ... regardless of higher wages.
Quite apart from what Levy wants, Modric is not going to jump ship to a club that finished 6th in the league and would be (if they lose the CL final) playing in the Europa league.
It didn't take a great scouting system to pick up half those players and at least one Man Utd were after as well
Also comparing prices That we paid for players last summer with players you signed the year before and quite a few before that is daft, irrelevant and pointless
That isn't what I said, what I was saying is that the elite players go to title chasing sides and title chasing sides are normally in the champions league which gets confused with people thinking champions league qualification is the be all and end all for attracting top players.
The best players do want to play in the champions league but more than that they want to be winning the champions league and winning the title of the country they are in and over the lifetime of their careers, hence whether Chelsea are in the champions league or not next season will be able to attract a higher calibre of player than Tottenham as the likelihood of them winning the premier league of champions league with Chelsea will be far greater.
I wouldn't be so sure. The lure of a massive wage is bigger than you seem to think. It would probably only take Chelsea one year until they're constantly getting Champions League football each year again. Compare that to Tottenham who may be in one year but fall out of the top 4 the next year.
Man United have won twelve titles and the champions league twice in the last twenty years, you have come nowhere near winning any such competition in decades.
Well played, Rupert.
This has very little to do with the discussion concerning the quality of the current/recent scouting and signing system at Spurs (which most neutrals would say, based on overall track record, is pretty good).
Spurs have nowhere near the income of the Man. Utd
Wouldn't be surprised to see a punt on Cisse by you's in the near future.
It does, Man United's scouting/recruitment policy has led to the longest sustained title winning period of any English club.
And seriously, since when is signing Aaron Lennon from another premier league club considered to be 'scouting'? He is no more scouting than Man United signing David De Gea or Chelsea signing Juan Mata.
Most footballers will look at the here and now reality, rather than what may or may not happen next year.
Hence most footballers will choose to play in the CL this year over signing for a club that is expected to qualify (but still might not) next year.
Sure, balanced against that is the lure of bigger wages, but even Chelsea are starting to be affected by the FFP regulations. And besides, I don't see Modric choosing to sacrifice, for higher wages, the chance to play in the CL .
Explain then the best young winger in Europe in Franck Ribery, the best striker in Italy in Luca Toni and Germany's best striker Miroslav Klose all electing to join Bayern Munich in the one year in a generation they were not playing in the Champions League.
They went to Bayern Munich as the fact they were not in the champions league was a statistical anomaly and that the likelihood of the club competing for the Champions League and Bundesliga over the coming years were great and proved to be correct.
Firstly, Lennon wasn't signed from a Premier League club.
Secondly, all signings involve scouting, unless you are going to rely on 2nd hand reports and 2nd hand assessments. And we're not just taking about a player's ability. It an assesssment of character, motivation etc etc. Plus seeing how well they might fit in with your playing style.
And the overall signing system includes of course the actual transfer negotiations process, since any fool with huge amounts of cash can sign 'star player X for 'mega-bucks Y' if only they are able and willing to keep offering more and more dosh.
As for your insistence on dragging in Man. Utds trophy winning of the last 20 years, I'll say again - how is that supposed to prove that Spurs have a rubbish scouting and signings system?
The truth is that Spurs, despite having a lower income than at least 5 other Prem clubs (much lower in several cases) have fairly consistently still managed to sign some quality players for what in retrospect are seen as bargain prices. Of course there have one or two mistakes along the way, as with all clubs, but overall the scouting and signing system at Spurs stands up to scrutiny as being amongst the best.
Chelsea are not Bayern Munich. Chelsea are a plastic club. Bayern Munich are steeped in history.
The fact remains that it was Spurs who got them, at the prices paid, and not another club. So your disparaging of the Spurs scouting and signings system falls rather flat.
No it doesn't it wasn't your scouts that negotiated the deals, all your scouts did was find players that most other clubs where more than aware of (certainly in the cases of Lennon, Bale and Walker)
With respect to the bolded part first, because your signings over the last two decades have brought you... one league cup, fantastic return that.
Aaron Lennon came from Leeds shortly after they had left the Premier League and still retained their stature and to an extent still do, everybody in the premier league knew he was and nobody else signed him mainly because he is rubbish and gets laughed at. Do you know who got twice as many assists as he did in the premier league this season despite Lennon being more highly rated than at any point in his career?
Fernando Torres.
Even if that is true, money talks these days, and it talks a lot more than history does to be honest.
This coming from a Tottenham fan is hilarious.
How can anyone disparage Spurs record in the transfer market? They've been hugely successful in acquiring quality players at bargain prices. Which we certainly haven't in recent years.
They finished two places above Chelsea this season with a fraction of their net spend. And a much lower wage bill. They're a great success story.
They finished two places above Chelsea this season with a fraction of their net spend. And a much lower wage bill. They're a great success story.
Part of Spurs success in the market comes from relatively low pressure for results (in comparison to the big clubs at least) which gives them more of an opportunity to roll the dice on players like Lennon or time to develop a player like Bale. It also helps to be perceived as a small club who don't have to pay a luxury tax. It's the same as clubs like Wigan signing Valencia or Fulham signing Louis Saha.
United are almost to the point where we cannot afford to buy anyone not ready to contribute right away. Spurs have finished in the bottom half of the table within the past 5 seasons. Europe still isn't an expectation for them, but a bonus.
United are almost to the point where we cannot afford to buy anyone not ready to contribute right away. Spurs have finished in the bottom half of the table within the past 5 seasons. Europe still isn't an expectation for them, but a bonus.
Not at all. Spurs stand on their own two feet and strive to compete based on money they actually earn themselves.
Cheski's successes in recent years are based on gifted, sugar-daddy money, which in turn has attracted a more plastic, "glory-hunting" fan base. These facts are undeniable.
Spurs can't afford to toss away 50m on a Torres, nor pay the gangster-funded wages that your club offers. But what we can do - and what we've largely been doing well in recent years - is play a superior game in the transfer market.
Given the existence of two sugar-daddy clubs and at least 5 Prem clubs in total with greater incomes than ours, IMO Spurs have done remarkably well to finish 5th twice and then 4th twice in recent seasons, all whilst funding a brand new training complex and continuing ahead with our new stadium project.
The scouting system is just part of a wider transfer system, which includes selling the club's virtues to prospects and negotiating prices for ins and outs. The overall transfer system at Spurs is highly effective, as a history of our recent transfer dealings generally shows.
Have I said that no other clubs were aware of Bale, Lennon or Walker? No.
The points is that, regardless of which other clubs were aware or interested, it was Spurs who got them.
Torres cost Chelsea 50 times what Lennon costs Spurs. Let me know when he makes 50 times as many assists.
Despite all your sneering about Lennon - and waving fistfuls of Torres money about - guess which team finished higher in the league this season.
If you lose to Bayern, then I'll predict this is the start of a declining era for Chelski and that you'll again struggle to finish in the top 4 next season.
That's patronising bollox if ever I heard it. Your transfer record is littered with players who didn't contribute 'right away' or at any fecking point.
Yeah, I'm really not sure what's happening here. Spurs are a great success story.
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If that's the case, has Marcos Ruben been abetted signing for Villareal then Ronaldo to Madrid, his 9 goals compared to Ronaldos 46 cost a lot less.
If that's the case, has Marcos Ruben been abetted signing for Villareal then Ronaldo to Madrid, his 9 goals compared to Ronaldos 46 cost a lot less.
And also a fairly depressing one, considering that with all their clever building they are banging their head against the glass ceiling. No amount of good planning and squad building will make up for their lack of income and pulling power compared to the established top clubs. Same happened with Villa and Everton.