So those players were missing all season? And without them PSG can't beat anyone else in the league? As former CL finalists it's going to extreme's to say they're a two man squad
Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch
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Next people will be claiming Pochettino has overperformed with this PSG squad.
I don't care about him, I had the same opinion when they sacked Tuchel. I don't rate most of the players you mentioned and won't take any of them at United either except Marquinhos.
I like Pochettino, I think he's a good manager but my concern was always his ability to win and knowing what it takes to manage a top club with huge expectations. He just doesn't have that killer instinct.
I’ve nothing against Poch, he’s a decent manager. However it’s rather satisfying seeing those who preached him as football Jesus scattering back under their rocks.
They are definitely a two man squad, that's not even up for debate and never has which has been a problem.
Next people will be claiming Pochettino has overperformed with this PSG squad.
No you won’t, but 2.26 points per game is just 0.13 less than their 2018 side, even if we ignore the departures since then and how much weaker this side is, is there another top side in Europe that has managed to get a similar points per game compared to other seasons during this crazy Covid year?
All leagues have been won with significantly less points haven’t they?
As I say, neither good, nor bad. Next season we’ll see if he’s decent, or shite, or meh.
I don't think people get quite how far ahead he is. Here's market value of their squads (transfermarkt):
You'd accept Monaco or Lyon falling to Lille, but there's no excuse for Poch. None whatsoever.
| Paris Saint-Germain | €828.80m |
| AS Monaco | €339.70m |
| Olympique Lyon | €333.45m |
| LOSC Lille | €297.50m |
| Olympique Marseille | €224.90m |
| Stade Rennais FC | €224.20m |
| OGC Nice | €222.05m |
You'd accept Monaco or Lyon falling to Lille, but there's no excuse for Poch. None whatsoever.
That's fair and you're entitled to your opinion. However, this is the Pochettino thread so people are going to relate discussion here to his performance as PSG manager.
I will reiterate that I do not believe that PSG's squad, sans Neymar and Mbappe, would finish 10th in the Premier League (Everton's level). However, even if it would hypothetically, he had Neymar and Mbappe and still lost 3-2 to Lorient in a game Neymar scored twice in.
If the score at 80 minutes of that Lorient game was the same at the end of the game PSG would be champions. If we cannot question what the coach did to hold onto, first a lead and then a draw, then we may as well as lock this thread.
Well except that he came in mid-season of course, and that Lille actually picked up a frankly ridiculous 2.26 points per game for the last 24 games since Poch came in.
That matches Peps points per game in the Prem this season, and Atleticos in La Liga. Very similar to Bayern also (2.29).
People making out like PSG play Lille every week or that Lille didn’t have an incredible season.
Well, Everton shouldn't be finishing 10th either. I think they would find it very difficult to get into the top 4.
Pochettini underachieved but not as much as many keep arguing in this thread.
He'll win it next season like Emery and Ancelotti before him which again won't mean much.
Ah I missed the tone!
How is 2.26 PPG ridiculous? It's impressive, but hardly ridiculous.
Here's PSG's last five seasons:
2015-16: 2.53 PPG
2016-17: 2.29 PPG (ending 2nd to Monaco's 2.50 PPG actually ridiculous season).
2017-18: 2.45 PPG (dropping points in 5 of the last 7).
2018-19: 2.39 PPG (dropping points in 6 of the last 9).
2019-20: 2.52 PPG (cancelled after 27 games).
If he'd just performed at the levels of Blanc/Emery/Tuchel he'd have easily won it, but he's not up there with those managers.
Did Lille need to assemble a world class squad similar to PSG last year to get to 2.26?
What are PSG’s transfer plans? Are they still restricted to 50m?
They need a whole new midfield and defence. Probably a striker too.
They need a whole new midfield and defence. Probably a striker too.
When Poch doesn’t get results, it’s because his team is crap. When he gets results, it’s because he is very good.
When Ole doesn’t get results, it’s because he is a terrible coach. When he gets results, it’s either that other teams are crap or our players are just too good.
When Ole doesn’t get results, it’s because he is a terrible coach. When he gets results, it’s either that other teams are crap or our players are just too good.
The fact that he did not win the league is below expectations, not like they were way behind in the title race when he took over.
Also, downplaying their squad is ridiculous, they still reached the semis in the CL, and shown they can beat the top teams. They have a good squad, using the squad as an excuse is not valid when you compare what the rest have to work with.
Decent manager but hope the stupid OTT hype around him goes away.
Also, downplaying their squad is ridiculous, they still reached the semis in the CL, and shown they can beat the top teams. They have a good squad, using the squad as an excuse is not valid when you compare what the rest have to work with.
Decent manager but hope the stupid OTT hype around him goes away.
I think, it this might be a good start when evaluating the performance of a team and therefor its manager (even though only responsible for a part of it).I went back to check the table. It's not like Lille were brilliant or anything. 83 points is all PSG had to beat in that farmers league. Piss poor from both Tuchel and Pochettino, tbh. They lost 8(!) games this season
(have issues with inserting jpg, see Table on understat)
That tells us:
Paris
- has most wins (26 to Lilles 24)
- fewest draws (4 to Lilles 11)
- a few more losses than Lille (8 to 3, United had 6 losses this season which is considered as great)
- scored the most goals (86 to Lilles 64, United 73)
- conceded just 5 more goals than Lille (28 to Lilles 23, United conceded 44)
- had the highest xG value (around 84 to Lilles 48, United 63)
- had a higher xGA value (37 to Lilles 26, United has 42, ManCity 30)
- had a higher xPTS value (78 to Lilles 68, infact Lyon had the highest value in this with 79)
What does that tell us...?
A) Statistics only get you so far
B) Lille had a freak season overperforming their xPTS by 15 points (absolutely admirably, feels great to have a dark horse winning it)
C) Paris had a pretty good season despite not ending top of the league table.
It feels weird, to bash Poch for not getting first spot considering the team. I remember there was quite some uproar during the season when someone noticed, that Leicester (for most of the season) was performing very close to our own level despite having an inferior squad. I won't check if there are overlappings in the posters but you never know...
I get it, some of the Poch hailing was over the top and it is quite understandable to rectify it. But in the end of the day, when evaluating a teams performance let alone a managers performance, these personal issues shouldn't cloud the view. What Poch did for Spurs and Southhampton was great, lets see what he can do with Paris. I doubt that they will sack him on the short-term, I felt that his appointment had at least a mid-term project in mind, which I guess is needed looking at the current squad.
For Lille it’s fecking ludicrous, this covid insane schedule season it’s Lille matching Bayern, Atletico and Man City.
If you don’t think Lille matching that is ridiculous, well… what to say.
He performed better with Tuchel’s team this season than Tuchel himself, that’s black and white.
Ok so he lost the league on points to Lille and on xpoints to Lyon?
Yes Sherlock. Impressive detective work
The point is: in many metrics Paris was the best team in the league. Just not in the single most important one this time.
Plus his record against the two teams you named isn't great...
vs Lyon 1 win, 1 loss
vs Lille 1 draw, 1 loss
All while winning the national cup competition and going to the semis in the CL.
Doesn't sound to bad of a season to me, does it for you? And even if, how much of it, is down to what Poch has done or not done... Pretty subjective, next season will be interesting, probably the season after even more. I guess, they got Poch to give PSGs team a base of national super talents added by the odd international superstar.
That's 86 points for the season. Not really that ridiculous when you consider what budgets the bottom 10 clubs in that league are working with.
I don't think there's any excuse to not winning a league with PSG considering their wealth and team quality.
That’s ridiculous for Lille, 86 points is a big total this season in most leagues.
Of course there’s an excuse when you take over mid-season, improve them slightly yet make not a single signing of your own. And when the team above you since take over matches the points per game tally of City, Atletico & Bayern.
In a full season, no excuse whatsoever.
But the “damage” was done by Tuchel if you like, if he’d matched Poch’s points per game, they’d have won it. Weird season all round though so I’ll give Tuchel an easy ride here too, many top teams “underperformed” compared to their usual standards.
86 wouldn't have been enough to win any of the big leagues this season. Not enough to finish above City, only about enough to finish on par with Atletico, not enough to finish above Inter. All those leagues are also considerably stronger than Ligue 1. You can't really compare their points since Poch joined to teams that play in far, far better leagues. PSG should be doing 90 per season easily in Ligue 1 with their resources compared to other teams, anything less than that is a failure.
11 wins, 2 draws and 4 losses before Poch came. 15 wins, 2 draws and 4 losses after he came. Better but 4 losses in that league, and also to Lorient and Nantes among that is bad. Lille, Lyon and Monaco slipped up enough for them to be able to win it, they just did not capitalize on it.
Lille were actually behind them when he came, and bettered them by 2 or 3 points in the second half of season I think.
That’s not true.
Aye, and in a full season, he’ll may well manage that, who knows. I personally hope he doesn’t and that PSG finish second again, and again and again.
For Poch to have gotten PSG to 90+ he’d have needed to take 55 points from 21 games, I think a side that United looked plenty better than over 180 minutes minus a daft red card is probably not capable of that at present.
On a side note, you’ve given zero consideration to how bizarre a season it’s been all over Europe, with hardly any top sides picking up as many points as usual due to the crazy schedule.
Yeah let's leave PSG, CL, Neymar and Di Maria and spend some more morning sessions with Eric Dier and Harry Winks. He's going to get the league next year, try his best in the CL and hope for chaos in Madrid.
Don’t think schedule alone is a reason for that. Inter still got 91 points in Serie A, Bayern got 78 in 34 games, Atletico got 86 and City got 86 as well despite poor start. It’s just that top teams do not have the enormous quality of teams that used to get 90+ even recently. Barca and Real who were doing that consistently are shadows of those teams.
Poch apologists will always find something to defend him.
There is so many people with a chip on their shoulder in this thread, why? Its obvious they happen to be Ole fans that were personally insulted when someone else suggested that Poch is a better manager. These people are so jaded that they find Poch failing satisfying.
1. Lille had an incredible season for themselves.
2. PSG results improved after Tuchel left and Poch came in. You can't argue that coaches like Ole, Klopp (first few seasons at liverpool), Mourinho require time and then turn around and say half a season is enough for Poch. Either paint them with the same brush or don't. Its up to you. But it only highlights your bias. Revisit this half way through next season when it has been 1 full year at the club to see if the team is playing better or worse and whether results are improving further or not. That is what a logical person would do.
An an aside just for me personally, this PSG squad is terrible lobsided. To accomodate paying huge money for Neymar and Mbappe, they have some real average players elsewhere. That will work in Ligue 1 but they arent getting away with that in the Champions League. It isnt basketball where you can have 2 amazing players that can win you everything just by themselves.
1. Lille had an incredible season for themselves.
2. PSG results improved after Tuchel left and Poch came in. You can't argue that coaches like Ole, Klopp (first few seasons at liverpool), Mourinho require time and then turn around and say half a season is enough for Poch. Either paint them with the same brush or don't. Its up to you. But it only highlights your bias. Revisit this half way through next season when it has been 1 full year at the club to see if the team is playing better or worse and whether results are improving further or not. That is what a logical person would do.
An an aside just for me personally, this PSG squad is terrible lobsided. To accomodate paying huge money for Neymar and Mbappe, they have some real average players elsewhere. That will work in Ligue 1 but they arent getting away with that in the Champions League. It isnt basketball where you can have 2 amazing players that can win you everything just by themselves.
Why are you comparing a full seaon (Lille) to Poch's part season?
The simple fact is, he started 1 point behind and he finished 1 point behind, therefore he must have had the same number of points during his spell as Lille.
Nobody has a chip on their shoulder, Poch was supposed to be the man to come into United and win us the league, he can’t even do it with PSG.
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That is exactly this kind of model, super top-heavy, but they did get to a final and then a semi-final in back to back years. It remains to be seen if you can actually win that way, but they really aren't far as they are in accomplishing their goal of winning the CL, but it's true that you'll struggle to win every single competition that way because one injury to either of them has a huge repercussion, especially if it's Mbappe.
The amount of people on here asking for his head to justify their belief in our second-rate manager is hilarious.
He may not have had the best of seasons but he did come in halfway through, plus anyone with eyes can see that PSG has some world-class attacking players but their defence and midfield is pretty ordinary.
Finally, I can't even be bothered to quote the guy above that said 86 points won't be enough to win any big league - try PL and La Liga.
He may not have had the best of seasons but he did come in halfway through, plus anyone with eyes can see that PSG has some world-class attacking players but their defence and midfield is pretty ordinary.
Finally, I can't even be bothered to quote the guy above that said 86 points won't be enough to win any big league - try PL and La Liga.
Or he gets sacked midway through the season and his reputation is gone. At Spurs he would have 2 or 3 years for the rebuild.
Try his best in CL???
That's not good enough for PSG. He will get sacked mid-season if they get knocked out.
Imagine being a United fan, on a United forum, then manage to shit on your own manager and be upset because people are poking fun at Poch for not managing to win what is essentially a one team league. Its not like we owe Poch any loyalty is it?
Every action has a reaction. This is just the reaction to the OTT worship he got on here by some posters.
I'm not surprised, what with learning from this thread of the horrendous squad he has available to him at PSG. How can he expect to compete with that?
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