Mesut Özil

They'd be better off playing him on the right in big games. Simply not good enough in tight spaces so hides from the ball when it gets that tight.
 
RooneyLegend said:
They'd be better off playing him on the right in big games. Simply not good enough in tight spaces so hides from the ball when it gets that tight.
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Agreed with you until the bold part. Problem is in this game and against Man Utd, both teams compacted the middle and there was simply no space to operate in there.
 
Kid Cunto said:
Even you have to wonder why Madrid were so happy to see him leave? Top, top clubs don't tend to sell top, top players.
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Sneidjer, Robben, Makelele come to mind.

Madrid had the likes of Isco and Di Maria, and the price was right (they needed to finance the Bale sale), which is why Ozil ended up an Arsenal player.
 
JazzG said:
Agreed with you until the bold part. Problem is in this game and against Man Utd, both teams compacted the middle and there was simply no space to operate in there.
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Top players, especially top no10s create their own space. That's what made the likes of zidane and bergkamp so special. He isn't like that, he's got decent skills but nothing like top notch creators.
 
Kid Cunto said:
Even you have to wonder why Madrid were so happy to see him leave? Top, top clubs don't tend to sell top, top players.
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He had a rep as a party boy. Madrid fans I talked said he was very inconsistent game to game, and that the money they got for him made the deal a no- brainer.
I think his biggest contribution to Arsenal has been the lift his transfer gave to the squad initially. Still a high quality player obviously. But I'd rather have Januszaj....
 
Ramsey has had a better season, for me. There's no doubting Özil's talent but I do think he seems a bit wishy-washy at times, if I'm being honest.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Top players, especially top no10s create their own space. That's what made the likes of zidane and bergkamp so special. He isn't like that, he's got decent skills but nothing like top notch creators.
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Mourinho has used similar tactics against Barca and completely nullified the likes of Messi & Iniesta. Stick a good pacey forward in the side and I think you'll see a different Ozil, right now there is simply no pass on for him.

Also he has come into a new league and new team so will take him time to fully adjust.
 
JazzG said:
Mourinho has used similar tactics against Barca and completely nullified the likes of Messi & Iniesta. Stick a good pacey forward in the side and I think you'll see a different Ozil, right now there is simply no pass on for him.

Also he has come into a new league and new team so will take him time to fully adjust.
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Thing is he's been like this for years, this isn't some new revelation. He has been stopped by way to many big teams at this point.
 
The reaction to him signing was really over the top in the press, and on here to be honest.

Now it's crunch time, as they're on a bit of a lull, no win in 4 games, lost a sizeable gap at the top.

However, they are still top, but West Ham and Newcastle away shortly. Those will test them.
 
I noticed this at Madrid, never showed up for a big European night, he has had a couple of good classico's. He doesn't have that mentality to demand the ball and force things to happen which the best do in big games. He's happy to go with the flow and leave it in the hands of others.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I noticed this at Madrid, never showed up for a big European night, he has had a couple of good classico's. He doesn't have that mentality to demand the ball and force things to happen which the best do in big games. He's happy to go with the flow and leave it in the hands of others.
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But then you don't think Ronaldo has shown up for any Madrid big games.

Madrid with better defenders would have more titles to their name, including the Decima.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Thing is he's been like this for years, this isn't some new revelation. He has been stopped by way to many big teams at this point.
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Because he's such a threat in the hole that teams prioritize that area even at the expense of not having 3 men on Ronaldo. If teams want to put that much emphasis on one area it opens up space for others
 
RooneyLegend said:
Top players, especially top no10s create their own space. That's what made the likes of zidane and bergkamp so special. He isn't like that, he's got decent skills but nothing like top notch creators.
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Looking at his performance today, I would agree. Big test for him that was. London derby at the Emirates, poor conditions against a side who quite simply set up for a result. These are the sort of games and occasions that your 'top, top players' generally step up and deliver. He didn't do that tonight for me. How many times did he get on the ball and really look to influence the game? Nowhere near as often as he should be doing.

The next few weeks will be big for him, and Arsenal in general. A couple of poor results, a hectic Christmas schedule - will be interesting to see if he can really step up and deliver. He didn't do that tonight.
 
adexkola said:
But then you don't think Ronaldo has shown up for any Madrid big games.

Madrid with better defenders would have more titles to their name, including the Decima.
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What has that got to do with Ozil? He is showing big game after big game that I was right, it is hardly an unpopular opinion.


Yeah right!!! They just weren't good enough, Dortmund played their whole team of the park at home and missed a couple of sitters to make the away game more comfortable. Bayern were better and so were Barca. They barely created across two legs what has that got to do wth the defence?

In all honesty Ozil, Di Maria etc. none of them has ever really played a great big game in Europe to give Ronaldo a platform to do maximum damage. He picks his spots with devastating effect, his finishing and movement are as good as it gets. His teams have to be playing well and create chances for him and that was lacking in last years knockout matches.
 
Ekeke said:
Ozil has set up Ronaldo to be the match winner plenty. I guess he isnt greedy enough for some of you
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Has nothing to do with greed. It's like he doesn't have the balls to take the bull by the horns in the big games, which a player of his ability should.
 
I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one but I've watched him play a fair few times now and still don't understand why anyone thinks he's that good.

He just seems like yet another one of those players who plays somewhere between midfield and attack, without contributing all that much to either. He does nothing to seperate him from the million or so other players who do this, and many of them tend to end up playing for Arsenal at some point.

There's also a weird habbit people have of hyping players like this up to ridiculous proportions, over very little. It happened with Nasri not too long ago. United fans do it now with Kagawa. I don't get it. He's a decent footballer but every time I watch him play, it seems like him being on the pitch is utterly irrelevant to whether his team are going to win or not.
 
Ekeke said:
Ozil has set up Ronaldo to be the match winner plenty. I guess he isnt greedy enough for some of you
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For me the issue is that he's only great in the attacking third and needs good support from midfield and adds little himself. He's more of a support striker than an attacking midfielder for me. Even at Madrid, it was Xabi who controlled the midfield and once you close him down, Ozil couldn't really help him out much.

That's not really a slight on him. He's just not the kind of player who can take the game by the scruff of it's neck and run the show like players like Zidane, Iniesta, Scholes or some other great AMs used to. He's quality when it comes to setting up chances but he won't be the one who would be a great help in retaining possession or always being an option to pass the whole time. So when teams play him in the middle for me they are effectively playing two in the middle and that naturally becomes a bit of an disadvantage when most teams today prefer three central players all of whom add significantly to the midfield battle.
 
noodlehair said:
I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one but I've watched him play a fair few times now and still don't understand why anyone thinks he's that good.

He just seems like yet another one of those players who plays somewhere between midfield and attack, without contributing all that much to either. He does nothing to seperate him from the million or so other players who do this, and many of them tend to end up playing for Arsenal at some point.

There's also a weird habbit people have of hyping players like this up to ridiculous proportions, over very little. It happened with Nasri not too long ago. United fans do it now with Kagawa. I don't get it. He's a decent footballer but every time I watch him play, it seems like him being on the pitch is utterly irrelevant to whether his team are going to win or not.
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I love the simplicity of the breakdown of his game, and also how accurate it pretty much is. It is worth mentioning he has the ability to conjure something from absolutely nothing. However, he definitely needs to force himself more in the big games though.
 
He's great with setup play and especially break aways. His signature is breaking away to the left with his athleticism and putting a great pass into the middle for a teammate to score. I've lost count of the amount of times he sets up that exact same goal. Breaks away fast on left, plays great ball to player in the middle, goal. If the other team is going to sit in position right outside their box its going to be a lot harder for anyone to have an impact. Ozil is one of the best at drifting to space on the sides and making something happen, so you can't just defend the width of the penalty area. But its still very hard in games like this, its only natural he finds it a lot harder than against lesser sides.
 
Kid Cunto said:
I love the simplicity of the breakdown of his game, and also how accurate it pretty much is. It is worth mentioning he has the ability to conjure something from absolutely nothing. However, he definitely needs to force himself more in the big games though.
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He doesn't conjure nearly enough from nothing. He's in the same category as Kagawa for me. The ability isn't in question, but after watching him play countless times, I'm still not entirely sure what it is he's supposed to be doing with it.

You can justifiably say it's his first season, but the thing is, people have been praising him based on what he's done, this season, and I haven't seen it. whenever I've watched Arsenal, whether they've been good or rubbish, there's been at least a few players on his team who were better and more influential than him.
 
He's just a bit fluffy and wishy-washy at the moment. If I was an Arsenal fan I'd be wanting to see him force himself more onto games anyway, because he can.
 
He is just not involved enough in these kind of a games. He will show a flash of his quality for e.g his assist for Ramsey that took four liverpool players out of the game but he doesn't dominate. Even against Liverpool he was quiet and Arsenal where on top that match. The very best players and midfielders especially have that ability to make the game about them at the highest level. He doesn't have it yet.
 
noodlehair said:
I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one but I've watched him play a fair few times now and still don't understand why anyone thinks he's that good.

He just seems like yet another one of those players who plays somewhere between midfield and attack, without contributing all that much to either. He does nothing to seperate him from the million or so other players who do this, and many of them tend to end up playing for Arsenal at some point.

There's also a weird habbit people have of hyping players like this up to ridiculous proportions, over very little. It happened with Nasri not too long ago. United fans do it now with Kagawa. I don't get it. He's a decent footballer but every time I watch him play, it seems like him being on the pitch is utterly irrelevant to whether his team are going to win or not.
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noodlehair said:
He doesn't conjure nearly enough from nothing. He's in the same category as Kagawa for me. The ability isn't in question, but after watching him play countless times, I'm still not entirely sure what it is he's supposed to be doing with it.

You can justifiably say it's his first season, but the thing is, people have been praising him based on what he's done, this season, and I haven't seen it. whenever I've watched Arsenal, whether they've been good or rubbish, there's been at least a few players on his team who were better and more influential than him.
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Well he's got 5 goals and 9 assists, for a start. That's productivity way beyond what Kagawa has produced for us this season.

He's been the most creative player in La Liga for the past 3 years, if not Europe. If you've followed him at all since even 2010 you'd know exactly what he contributes - and we've already seen it - just not as consistently as he can do.
 
noodlehair said:
I'm happy to be proven wrong on this one but I've watched him play a fair few times now and still don't understand why anyone thinks he's that good.

He just seems like yet another one of those players who plays somewhere between midfield and attack, without contributing all that much to either. He does nothing to seperate him from the million or so other players who do this, and many of them tend to end up playing for Arsenal at some point.

There's also a weird habbit people have of hyping players like this up to ridiculous proportions, over very little. It happened with Nasri not too long ago. United fans do it now with Kagawa. I don't get it. He's a decent footballer but every time I watch him play, it seems like him being on the pitch is utterly irrelevant to whether his team are going to win or not.
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He is one of the most productive players in the whole of Europe for one, Kagawa and Nasri aren't half as creative as he is.
 
noodlehair said:
He doesn't conjure nearly enough from nothing. He's in the same category as Kagawa for me. The ability isn't in question, but after watching him play countless times, I'm still not entirely sure what it is he's supposed to be doing with it.

You can justifiably say it's his first season, but the thing is, people have been praising him based on what he's done, this season, and I haven't seen it. whenever I've watched Arsenal, whether they've been good or rubbish, there's been at least a few players on his team who were better and more influential than him.
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He is not in the same category as Kagawa at all, he is a far better player. Its baffling because people want to act as if Ozil has had a mediocre season, when currently on average he makes the 2nsd most key passes in the league, and has the 2nd most assists, and is probably after Ramsey the biggest reason why Arsenal are sitting at the top of the table. If Kagawa had a season like Ozil has had so far, i'm sure all of you would be delighted.
 
I've always rated him but he's been very meh so far to my eyes...For all the Arse fans who I know and on here, who went ape over his signing, I expected a hell of a lot more.

Expectations were raised too high...It's a bit like Kagawa for us. Severely hyped up to the point where, if he makes a good pass, it's blown out of proportion
 
It's "just" a psychological pb for me but it's a big one. He has the technique and the ability, no one will deny that. Some players are just born for the big games and relish performing in them, demanding the ball all the time, Ozil isn't like that. He's too shy of a player to perform well in these intense matches.
 
I think he was quite good in South Africa 2010 and he played in big games there. He was good in Euro 2012, too. He was good in some games with Barcelona as well, also against United in the first leg last season. Now, it's a bit more difficult for him at Arsenal for he's supposed to be the main man and he struggles with the expectations. If Arsenal manage to win the title though, there won't be many complaints about his contributions in the big games.
 
JazzG said:
Mourinho has used similar tactics against Barca and completely nullified the likes of Messi & Iniesta. Stick a good pacey forward in the side and I think you'll see a different Ozil, right now there is simply no pass on for him.

Also he has come into a new league and new team so will take him time to fully adjust.
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I thought Walcott was the pacey outlet he needed?
 
You have to wonder if Arsenal put all their eggs in the wrong basket with this one and would have been better off paying up to get Suarez...

Ozil is a bloody good player but if he can't turn up for at least a quarter of the big games, he falls under the category of luxury players, imo.
 
MDFC Manager said:
You have to wonder if Arsenal put all their eggs in the wrong basket with this one and would have been better off paying up to get Suarez...

Ozil is a bloody good player but if he can't turn up for at least a quarter of the big games, he falls under the category of luxury players, imo.
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The big games are a bit overrated in terms of their influence on the table. The games vs the non-top teams are much more than those vs the top ones. And it's not like he does nothing in the games against the rivlas: assisted goals vs Liverpool and City, scored what should have been the winner against Everton, scored and assisted goals in the CL as well.
 
Easy to forget that he's still in his first season. If you look at the pattern with Silva and Mata's second seasons, it is frightening what Ozil could do next year.
 
Treble said:
I think he was quite good in South Africa 2010 and he played in big games there. He was good in Euro 2012, too. He was good in some games with Barcelona as well, also against United in the first leg last season. Now, it's a bit more difficult for him at Arsenal for he's supposed to be the main man and he struggles with the expectations. If Arsenal manage to win the title though, there won't be many complaints about his contributions in the big games.
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He still was his usual self at the worldcup though. I don't think it's a mental problem, it's just that he's not the type of player who actually controls games. You need to build a team that allows him to do what he's best at and he'll contribute in every game. But he isn't the player to turn a decent team that's struggling into a good one that could fight for glory against superior teams, he never was and imo he never will be (and I don't think Arsenal need that type of player in the next years, if they continue to build on the core they have now). He's not the one making up for flaws in other areas of your team, so you need the rest of the team to work.

You could see the same at the worldcup. Germany was destroying teams for fun, when the opponent allowed us to play to our strengths, which meant use the movement of Klose, Özil and Müller to a devestating effect. We had 3 great games and in all of them we scored an early goal that allowed us to counterattack through disorganised defenses later in the game. Against Serbia and Spain, Özil did his usual invisble man impression. His crucial goal against Ghana was the only time when he stepped up, but then, they were hardly a great team and it was more of a 'brilliant moment despite playing bad' thing anyway, that's usually not good enough in the big games against big teams.

Özil in open space is absolutely deadly, and his incredibly smart off-the-ball movement helps him find that space better than anyone else, when the rest of the team is working accordingly. But if the team is struggling to control the game, it becomes very difficult for his teammates, imo. It's hard to keep a balance between defense and attack in midfield and it often leads to the team looking vulnerable at the back or broken into those 2 parts. I think Arsenal have the tools to make it work, though. But others have to be at least equally important than him, just like Schweinsteiger and Müller were for Germany in our great games against England and Argentina.
 
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