Moyes So Far!

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I do think that all though we shouldn't call for his head, we are as a club in danger of giving him too much time. For me as long as we finish in the top 4 he should get a second season but I can't agree with those saying he should get atleast 2 - 3 years regardless of league position.

He has taken over a team that won the league with ease last season, a team that should easily be in the top 3, if we fall below that or out the beloved top 4 it's not going to work out.

So far tactically I'm annoyed, I haven't agreed with his team selection but that's forgivable as there may be unknown reasons. What I find hard to look past is his refusal to change the game and lack of offensive play. At half time yesterday we were 2-0 down after being schooled for 45 minutes. Why the hell did he send the same team out in the second half playing the same way!

His insistence with players like Ashley Young and the signing of Fellaini point the club in a direction I hope it doesn't go.

So overall I hope things work out I really do, but so far I'm not really impressed and think to myself all in all could it have gone any worse?
 
mlclauhk said:
Don't get me wrong, I do hope Moyes gets it right, but sooner rather than later. I'm just worried that he risks alienating a lot of the players with some of the choices he makes as to who starts / who sits on the bench...
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All of us do. It's still early days. Once the cups get going and we have lots of midweek games (which starts from Wednesday), I hope we'll see Moyes use the full squad and start rotating.
 
Bestie07 said:
I hope he has. It's as follows:
1) Don't play Young.
2) Use Valencia less.
3) Use Evans more.
4) Rest Rio more.
5) Give Nani a chance.
6) Give Kagawa a chance.

If we as fans can see that, surely he who is being paid multimillion pounds a season to manage the squad should be able to see this as well and shouldn't require 3 heartless performances against our 3 biggest rivals to figure that out.
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Because all of that would have guaranteed us a victory yesterday huh? Mostly it was the tactics. He tried going 4-4-2 against a side that dominate possession. Heroic but we were on a hiding to nothing. Once we shored up the midfield and took a striker off, we started playing again and filled up the hole that kept appearing between our midfield and defence, shame it was to late.
 
Gambit said:
Because all of that would have guaranteed us a victory yesterday huh? Mostly it was the tactics. He tried going 4-4-2 against a side that dominate possession. Heroic but we were on a hiding to nothing. Once we shored up the midfield and took a striker off, we started playing again and filled up the hole that kept appearing between our midfield and defence, shame it was to late.
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No guarantees in football. The line-up he fielded yesterday had no room for improvement in the future and was guaranteed(no guarantees ;)) to produce an uninspiring performance. I'm okay with fielding younger players and losing, as atleast they get to learn something. What did Valencia and Young learn yesterday that they didn't already knew or would make them better?
 
Gambit said:
Because all of that would have guaranteed us a victory yesterday huh? Mostly it was the tactics. He tried going 4-4-2 against a side that dominate possession. Heroic but we were on a hiding to nothing. Once we shored up the midfield and took a striker off, we started playing again and filled up the hole that kept appearing between our midfield and defence, shame it was to late.
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You don't have to go from one horrible defeat to a win. With the changes mentioned, the team could have still lost but the performance would probably have been better. A defeat with a positive performance by Utd is a lot better than a gutless performance.
 
Gambit said:
Because all of that would have guaranteed us a victory yesterday huh? Mostly it was the tactics. He tried going 4-4-2 against a side that dominate possession. Heroic but we were on a hiding to nothing. Once we shored up the midfield and took a striker off, we started playing again and filled up the hole that kept appearing between our midfield and defence, shame it was to late.
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People keep talking about last 30 minutes but the other side were 4-0 up, of course they were going to get complacent.
 
Bestie07 said:
No guarantees in football. The line-up he fielded yesterday had no room for improvement in the future and was guaranteed(no guarantees ;)) to produce an uninspiring performance. I'm okay with fielding younger players and losing, as atleast they get to learn something. What did Valencia and Young learn yesterday that they didn't already knew or would make them better?
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Against a lesser side that team would have torn them apart. Personally I think the learning curve was on Moyes. The learning curve being that there are teams out there that do certain things better than United and he needs to start thinking of his tactics. Strange as it sounds. Imagine if we played Rooney up front on his own and had Welbeck making up the numbers in midfield as a roaming player who closes down when we defend. Instead we stuck rigidly to our plan and that allowed City to tear us a new one.

What we need to do now is how we react.
 
Raees said:
People keep talking about last 30 minutes but the other side were 4-0 up, of course they were going to get complacent.
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Agreed. I'd say they backed off after going a goal up and let us have the ball. Before that they pressed us very well and we struggled to string a couple of passes together. They completely eased up after going 4-0 up and invited us onto them to try and catch us on the break (which they did, several times).
 
kouroux said:
You don't have to go from one horrible defeat to a win. With the changes mentioned, the team could have still lost but the performance would probably have been better. A defeat with a positive performance by Utd is a lot better than a gutless performance.
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Not necessarily, we allowed Toure to do what he wanted which blew my mind as we finally have a midfielder physically capable of taking him on. No amount of Kagawas or Nani's would have changed that.
 
kps88 said:
Agreed. I'd say they backed off after going a goal up and let us have the ball. Before that they pressed us very well and we struggled to string a couple of passes together. They completely eased up after going 4-0 up and invited us onto them to try and catch us on the break (which they did, several times).
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There was some arguing it showed we had superior fitness levels, utter bullshit. No team is going to be dumb enough to go full throttle for 90 minutes in a league game in which they're already 4-0 up, hence why they stopped running as much.
 
Gambit said:
Not necessarily, we allowed Toure to do what he wanted which blew my mind as we finally have a midfielder physically capable of taking him on. No amount of Kagawas or Nani's would have changed that.
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Kagawa and Nani could have indirectly made Toure take less risks with the ball as he would knew that if he lost it there could be a dangerous counter attack but let's just say I'm clutching at straws. Let's assume it would change feck all in containing Toure, the entire pbs for Utd weren't just about Yaya Toure. We were not playing at all, attempting feck all, creating feck all and all of that compounded with some abysmal off the ball movement. It may not have sold the Yaya issue but it surely would have created some (half) chances.
 
Raees said:
People keep talking about last 30 minutes but the other side were 4-0 up, of course they were going to get complacent.
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I'm thinking more of the first 15 minutes where we tried going toe to toe with them. They shored up their midfield by having Aguero and Negredo (if thats his name) drop back and that allowed them to find the holes between our defence and midfield. We on the other hand did nothing different. Until we added the extra number in midfield we couldn't keep up with the game. They man marked our most dangerous player out of the game and we let Toure roam the pitch unchallenged.
 
kps88 said:
:lol: Are you being serious? It's no coincidence those two managers barely lasted a season. And we have Mourinho now openly saying he's trying to clean up Benitez's mess. You can go for short term glory or you can try and build something sustainable.

I never thought I'd see the day when Benitez and Grant's spells at Chelsea were referred to as shining examples of managerial success.
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Not success but points that Moyes has been here since June and he still doesn't seem to be anywhere near to showing what he can do other than show us his general negativety.
 
Essentially he's just been too negative so far. I think an amount of cuatiousness was expected but he's making too many negative decisions. Take yesterday:

Smalling over Fabio
Valencia over Nani
Young over Kagawa/Nani
Welbeck over Hernandez

It seems where there is a decision to make he is favouring the more negative one at the moment and it's something he needs to snap out of. As I said, it's understandable that he'd make some negative choices but at the minute he's taking the negative option wherever possible.
 
Sultan said:
We have beaten all the weak teams we have played this season, and convincingly.

Swansea, Crystal Palace, and Leverkusen.
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I wouldnt call the crystal palace victory convincing at all.
Leverkusen i think are a decent team, against whom we were able to play on the counterattack because of an early goal (and because we led for most of the match). Swansea was well and truly the exception.
 
Gambit said:
Because all of that would have guaranteed us a victory yesterday huh? Mostly it was the tactics. He tried going 4-4-2 against a side that dominate possession. Heroic but we were on a hiding to nothing. Once we shored up the midfield and took a striker off, we started playing again and filled up the hole that kept appearing between our midfield and defence, shame it was to late.
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You have to be a bit daft to play 442 at all in this game (unless you are chasing a goal at the end).
 
The first time to really judge Moyes is after the Arsenal game. We should be on 23 points minimum, which should put us 2-3 points behind the leader after the trickiest run of fixtures.In that time City have to play Chelsea, as well as Everton; Arsenal have Liverpool, as well as Swansea away; and Chelsea have City and Spurs.

I have said many times that selecting someone who has never won or even competed for trophies was a bad decision. My opinion remains unchanged and the sole signing of Fellaini was also troubling. However the fact is he needs to be given a chance and I'd say that he will achieve the minimum expected requirement of a top 3 finish and a decent cup run (mostly because we have a squad that should comfortably achieve this). I believe the minimum required to keep his job will be knockout stages of the CL and 4th (rightly so).
 
People talk about Moyes tactics and negativity but what did he do at Everton? He engineered some famous victories against us, City and others with inferior players. He also gave very young players a chance in the first team. So why is he getting it wrong here? Is he not used to having a big quality squad to choose from? Or is he judging players by their fitness levels and ignoring their technical abilities, positional sense and sheer hunger to win?
 
Rednails said:
People talk about Moyes tactics and negativity but what did he do at Everton? He engineered some famous victories against us, City and others with inferior players. He also gave very young players a chance in the first team. So why is he getting it wrong here? Is he not used to having a big quality squad to choose from? Or is he judging players by their fitness levels and ignoring their technical abilities, positional sense and sheer hunger to win?
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I fecking hope not.
 
We need to put the flair players back in, those players that will give us more creativity. Kagawa, Nani, Zaha etc need to be somehow brought into the first 11. I would prefer losing the way we did 6-1 but at least going for the goals rather than with a whimper like we did yesterday.
 
Rednails said:
People talk about Moyes tactics and negativity but what did he do at Everton? He engineered some famous victories against us, City and others with inferior players. He also gave very young players a chance in the first team. So why is he getting it wrong here? Is he not used to having a big quality squad to choose from? Or is he judging players by their fitness levels and ignoring their technical abilities, positional sense and sheer hunger to win?
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We really need to have a little perspective and remember he has had total of 5 league games, 3 of which were against our biggest rivals, 2 of which were away from home.

That is sugar coating that should be allowed IMO. I still think its been a very poor start from day one from Moyes. But everyone has to allow at least until xmas before we start really worrying
 
Moyes went to the Etihad with Darron Gibson and got a better performance out his team than yesterday, really don't think we've seen what Moyes' United looks like yet. Yesterday was very reminiscent of a latter era SAF side. We didn't match City's intensity at all and that's not something you usually associate with a Moyes team, you wouldn't usually associate it with a United side either but it's happened often in the last 3-4 years. I'd really like Moyes to trust in youth more, the core of this side is looking old and lethargic. Vidic, Evra, Rio, Carrick, RVP are all 30 and above. If we really want to persist with 2 CM's we need to up our pressing and we can't really do that with Evra, Rio, Vidic and Carrick because we'll get smashed on the counter.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Moyes went to the Etihad with Darron Gibson and got a better performance out his team than yesterday, really don't think we've seen what Moyes' United looks like yet. Yesterday was very reminiscent of a latter era SAF side. We didn't match City's intensity at all and that's not something you usually associate with a Moyes team, you wouldn't usually associate with a United side either but it's happened often in the last 3-4 years. I'd really like Moyes to trust in youth more, the core of this side is looking old and lethargic. Vidic, Evra, Rio, Carrick, RVP are all 30 and above. If we really want to persist with 2 CM's we need to up our pressing and we can't really do that with Evra, Rio, Vidic and Carrick because we'll get smashed on the counter.
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I agree with all that. Next summer will be really important because we need to rebuild the side. The foundations are good, we just need to make the right signings.
 
I know we're widely hated, but the competitive masturbation going on in the press as they gleefully lay into Moyes has staggered me a little. They all want this so badly...

Timdbro said:
Leverkusen i think are a decent team
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They're the third best team in Germany: the league everyone now thinks is the best around. But yeah, they're 'weak', cause we beat them.
 
RedRossi said:
Just out of curiosity, how do you think the reaction will be on Wednesday if we lose?
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Depends largely on the team we field. If we lose with the likes of Giggs and Young starting it will be toxic. If we give chances to Januzaj, Zaha, Kagawa, Nani, Hernández etc. then people will probably be a bit more understanding about it.
 
Siorac said:
Depends largely on the team we field. If we lose with the likes of Giggs and Young starting it will be toxic. If we give chances to Januzaj, Zaha, Kagawa, Nani, Hernández etc. then people will probably be a bit more understanding about it.
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Maybe...
Strangely, if we lose on Wednesday, I can see Moyes been under serious pressure already...Rightly or wrongly
 
Siorac said:
I agree with all that. Next summer will be really important because we need to rebuild the side. The foundations are good, we just need to make the right signings.
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I think it's less about the signings we make and more about who we let go. If we release a few players next summer and just promote within I'll be happy.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
We need to put the flair players back in, those players that will give us more creativity. Kagawa, Nani, Zaha etc need to be somehow brought into the first 11. I would prefer losing the way we did 6-1 but at least going for the goals rather than with a whimper like we did yesterday.
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Moyes simply wanted full time, he wanted over the line and out of there. Personally, as a fan of Moyes, I think he showed cowardice yesterday.

I guess he will make changes for Wednesday, but don't be expecting a sweeping overhaul.
 
RedRossi said:
Just out of curiosity, how do you think the reaction will be on Wednesday if we lose?
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Depends on the manner of the loss doesn't it? United fans don't believe we have a God given right to win every game but we do believe that we should at least try to win every game.

Fergie's Man said:
Moyes simply wanted full time, he wanted over the line and out of there. Personally, as a fan of Moyes, I think he showed cowardice yesterday.

I guess he will make changes for Wednesday, but don't be expecting a sweeping overhaul.
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Absolutely and that's why people are so angry today. Its not that we lost its that we lined up like a small club playing away at a big team, the way mid table or relegation threatened sides line up when they come to Old Trafford. We aimed to be difficult to beat with two wingers well known for tracking back and two centre midfielders who never really looked to get forward and support the few attacks we did have in the 1st half. We sat back, we invited pressure and there was no stage in the match where we looked like we were chasing a result...

...just like at Anfield.

That is the real issue. Moyes did it once and lost to our biggest rival. So the next time he has a big game what does he do? The same thing. He doesn't change his approach. He doesn't go for players that offer more in an attacking sense e.g. Nani. He doesn't take risks and try to give City something to think about. He goes for the same tactical approach and we get hammered for it: going down limply without even looking back in anger.

Moyes has to show he's got the guts to take risks in pursuit of a result. United fans will accept being beaten, what we won't accept is going down without so much as a whimper. We looked like a small club being toyed with by a big team and our response, to leave our game changers on the bench, just stunk of that small time mentality. We don't want anymore of that.

If we go at Liverpool hammer and tongs and get hit on the break and we lose despite dominating the game. Fine. I can live with that. But I dont wanna see a replay of the footballing equivalent of David Haye vs Audley Harrison, which is what happened yesterday.
 
Even my girlfriend picked up at the point of why there weren't tactical/personnel changes after half time :lol:
 
He's slightly over par at the moment. We had a bad window in terms of transfers, but none of us know exactly who was at fault for that. We've had a tough run of fixtures, but the results haven't been massively different that what we would have expected in Fergie's time. They style's of football's not been great but he's a new manager coming into the most difficult job in world football, with a system that was utterly entrenched. Changing anything will take time and patience. If we can steady the ship in the next month or so he'll have a much better idea of how to shape the team and what he can get from them.
 
#07 said:
Depends on the manner of the loss doesn't it? United fans don't believe we have a God given right to win every game but we do believe that we should at least try to win every game.



Absolutely and that's why people are so angry today. Its not that we lost its that we lined up like a small club playing away at a big team, the way mid table or relegation threatened sides line up when they come to Old Trafford. We aimed to be difficult to beat with two wingers well known for tracking back and two centre midfielders who never really looked to get forward and support the few attacks we did have in the 1st half. We sat back, we invited pressure and there was no stage in the match where we looked like we were chasing a result...

...just like at Anfield.

That is the real issue. Moyes did it once and lost to our biggest rival. So the next time he has a big game what does he do? The same thing. He doesn't change his approach. He doesn't go for players that offer more in an attacking sense e.g. Nani. He doesn't take risks and try to give City something to think about. He goes for the same tactical approach and we get hammered for it: going down limply without even looking back in anger.

Moyes has to show he's got the guts to take risks in pursuit of a result. United fans will accept being beaten, what we won't accept is going down without so much as a whimper. We looked like a small club being toyed with by a big team and our response, to leave our game changers on the bench, just stunk of that small time mentality. We don't want anymore of that.

If we go at Liverpool hammer and tongs and get hit on the break and we lose despite dominating the game. Fine. I can live with that. But I dont wanna see a replay of the footballing equivalent of David Haye vs Audley Harrison, which is what happened yesterday.
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As soon I saw that RVP was out I told my missus we were in for a hammering. The only way we could have got a result yesterday was to assault them with all guns blazing. Instead, we sat back tried to soak up the pressure, totally misjudged City's determination to win comprehensively and took a right anal regrind. We were outclassed in ability, belief and passion. On that kind of form, nobody will stop City this year, especially if Yaya and Kompany stay fit.

Moyes needs to decide what Fellaini's role actually is, then explain to the world why he is not playing his best players.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Moyes went to the Etihad with Darron Gibson and got a better performance out his team than yesterday, really don't think we've seen what Moyes' United looks like yet. Yesterday was very reminiscent of a latter era SAF side. We didn't match City's intensity at all and that's not something you usually associate with a Moyes team, you wouldn't usually associate it with a United side either but it's happened often in the last 3-4 years. I'd really like Moyes to trust in youth more, the core of this side is looking old and lethargic. Vidic, Evra, Rio, Carrick, RVP are all 30 and above. If we really want to persist with 2 CM's we need to up our pressing and we can't really do that with Evra, Rio, Vidic and Carrick because we'll get smashed on the counter.
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I think the players have a lot to answer for, they just weren't at the races. Apart from Young most people were reasonably happy with the side. It was unfortunate that RVP dropped out injured. Vidic was pretty good, but Rio looked old. He was great last season, but age can catch up with you almost overnight. Maybe he needs a rest and Evans can have his chance. At least if Rafa comes back, Smalling can be moved back to his best position at CB.
 
Lets give him more time or at least judge him after Christmas, personally I'd give him 2 years to stamp his authority.
 
Showed naivety tactically yesterday - going 4-4-2 was suicide. Expected changes at half-time, none came. First change at 60 minutes when we are 4-0 down.

Why no Kagawa or Nani starting or even coming on at half time? Why not change tactics during 1st half when Yaya was running riot?

Rightly or wrongly, he will be feeling the heat now. Personally, I don't like him and I don't think he's the man for the job but I'm happy to be proved wrong. Yesterday showed me he's out his depth, needs to learn and learn very quickly.
 
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