Moyes So Far!

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Saliph said:
We had loads of shit results under SAF too.
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Yeah but with SAF we knew we had a winner and probably the greatest manager ever. Can the same be said about Moyes and his backroom staff? Moyes needs time, I get that but making excuses for his start to the season aren't needed, its been a terrible start and he'll tell you that himself. Our performances have been horrible, our GD is at 0 ffs and we can drop to 15th after Monday night. Worst league start to a season in 24 years, maybe its not panic stations but questions are rightly being asked.
 
Saliph said:
I don't see much of a change since SAF left yet, and the people who do are deluding themselves.
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We've lost three out of our last four league games and have just got outplayed, at home, by West Brom.

We don't attack in numbers the way we did and we play with little to no urgency. We haven't scored a league goal from open play since the opening day of the season.

If you think there hasn't been much of a change since Fergie left you are the one who is deluded.
 
Brophs said:
Did 'we' say that or have you just decided to make it up?

Here's a clue: it's the latter. Cheerio.
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So you disagree that we were expecting a steep learning curve for Moyes.. Fair enough, that's what I was responding to in the post I quoted.
 
lilcurt said:
I'm going to get flamed for this I know...

If Moyes walked I'd be over the fecking moon, never fancied him as the new boss. If you're going to go for a manager who hasn't won anything at least give it to someone up and coming with new fresh ideas (a Laudrup for example - yes I know he won a cup) and if not go with someone with a proven track record. I'm not saying that we should sack him now... he may turn it around and having given him the job he is entitled to a full season but pissing hell it looks to be turning out as a blunder.

Even in press conferences he looks overawed and talks with little confidence in his own and the teams ability. He spent all summer saying how if we don't sign players its OK as we were champions last year, now its going to be up and down because we are missing players in key position and need first team signings. Wise after the event springs to mind.
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And do what, bring in a manager who has the same players to deal with? feck sake he needs to get to know what players he likes and doesnt like. He isnt a miracle worker. He cant wave a wond and make his seletion play out of their skins. This was always going to take time.

His mistake today was his defensive picks, I must say. our 4 defenders were terrible and cringe to watch. Fergie got it wrong many a time, but that was fergie and we had trust in him. Moyes is the unknown and it was always going to be a tough start.
 
lilcurt said:
Like I said earlier the big questions arent todays performance, its how were all the coaching aloud to leave and the new team brought in. It smacks of...

"Oh, I'll sort my mates out with a job and give some of the popular guys in the new office promotions. They'll love me for that!"

Coaching is a skilled job and in Rene we had a coach renowned to be one of the best and proven... You don't take over a company by sacking everyone who made it successful you transition slowly and learn from people already there!
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Yeah, that'll be it. Good stuff.
 
Of course this team is good enough to win the league, it fecking won it last season. It's certainly not a collection of players that should be losing 4-0 to City and be second best to West Brom at home. We've been horrific this season.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Yes, so? This team is riddled with faults just because SAF left? Not good enough to win the league?
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Our squad had problems last year and we've still got them this year,midfield problems.Difference is the man that could still manage even with those problems is gone, and we couldn't rely on RVP for ever.
 
Mr Anderson said:
And do what, bring in a manager who has the same players to deal with? feck sake he needs to get to know what players he likes and doesnt like. He isnt a miracle worker. He cant wave a wond and make his seletion play out of their skins. This was always going to take time.

His mistake today was his defensive picks, I must say. our 4 defenders were terrible and cringe to watch. Fergie got it wrong many a time, but that was fergie and we had trust in him. Moyes is the unknown and it was always going to be a tough start.
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In fairness, not even Fergie picked Buttner ahead of Evra in back to back games, Fergie was mad, but not that mad.
 
Castia said:
Yeah but with SAF we knew we had a winner and probably the greatest manager ever. Can the same be said about Moyes and his backroom staff? Moyes needs time, I get that but making excuses for his start to the season aren't needed, its been a terrible start and he'll tell you that himself. Our performances have been horrible, our GD is at 0 ffs and we can drop to 15th after Monday night.
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We're only 3 points behind MC, and 4 points behind Chelsea, with an arguably more difficult fixture list. Nothing to worry about yet. The PL is going to be close this year, and once we start kicking into form the results will come.
 
lilcurt said:
I'm going to get flamed for this I know...

If Moyes walked I'd be over the fecking moon, never fancied him as the new boss. If you're going to go for a manager who hasn't won anything at least give it to someone up and coming with new fresh ideas (a Laudrup for example - yes I know he won a cup) and if not go with someone with a proven track record. I'm not saying that we should sack him now... he may turn it around and having given him the job he is entitled to a full season but pissing hell it looks to be turning out as a blunder.

Even in press conferences he looks overawed and talks with little confidence in his own and the teams ability. He spent all summer saying how if we don't sign players its OK as we were champions last year, now its going to be up and down because we are missing players in key position and need first team signings. Wise after the event springs to mind.
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Ah, so now it's Moyes Out (as long as he walks himself)!

Christ. He's going to be here next season. This is not Chelsea or City. Deal with it.
 
The thing i'm worried about the most is the dressing room, some players will surely doubt him, saf was unsackable, but moyes at this moment in vulnerable, if the players aren't buying into his philosophy they could push him out of this club.
 
He's not tactically better than Ferguson + Rene and co.

He's not better at man management because SAF is the legend

He's not better at transfer because probably he never handle a big name transfer

He's not better at mind games

He's not better at rotation

Why is it we're expecting better result from him than under Ferguson?
 
Honestly didn't expect him to be this poor this fast. I think some of what he has said in the press, from the transfer window debacle to "fixing" the team..it really doesn't inspire confidence and in some ways you have to think its affected the team.

Rio looks a shell of himself from last season. Just torn apart today. Evans was weak against anichebe (although he has never been able to handle physical strikers well anyways). Buttner should not start anything other than cup matches.

Anderson tried hard but too many misplaced passes. Just a lot of terrible selections from Moyes and he has yet to be able to name a good strong start 11 since the Swansea match.
 
Varun_Utd said:
What are the faults in the this team? Which are the teams are better than us?
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Oh sorry I was answering as a double negative to the second question. I think the squad is good enough to win the league.

There's plenty of faults in this team though!
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Our squad had problems last year and we've still got them this year,midfield problems.Difference is the man that could still manage even with those problems is gone, and we couldn't rely on RVP for ever.
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We shouldnt need RVP to get a win over West Brom at home. Neither should we need SAF. Our team is on a different level to theirs and however you like to paint it, the urgency in play, the tempo, the willingness to have a real go at the opposition is down to how the team is set up. We were playing west brom ffs, not Barca. Ando/Fellaini and Carrick is more than good enough.
 
Saliph said:
We're only 3 points behind MC, and 4 points behind Chelsea, with an arguably more difficult fixture list. Nothing to worry about yet. The PL is going to be close this year, and once we start kicking into form the results will come.
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I'm not in the throwing-toys-from-pram brigade . But even I think that the PL title is just not going to be retained. When players who were key last season are looking stale then you know that you have reached the end of a cycle.
Its the dreaded "transition season".

Getting a top 4 place, and doing good business in January and next summer is what its all about now.
 
Moyes comments after the game.
"We didn't defend well in the second half but, when we got back in, I expected us to win it with the talent we have got," Moyes said.
"No worries about the crowd because it was great. The stadium in mid-week was in great voice. People come here expecting us to play well but we didn't play well. We tried to pick it up in the second half but we got done by it as well.
"You're always going to have bad results. It is how you deal with them. There are lots of games to come and it's about how you deal with them, so we look forward to them."


Thats just too fatalistic for me. He just seems to be too accepting of bad results and performances.
 
Sky1981 said:
He's not tactically better than Ferguson + Rene and co.

He's not better at man management because SAF is the legend

He's not better at transfer because probably he never handle a big name transfer

He's not better at mind games

He's not better at rotation

Why is it we're expecting better result from him than under Ferguson?
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I really hope Rene goes to coach Fulham. They'll be title contenders straight away.
 
This "Learning" thing annoys me. Why do we have to carry a manager with a bigger, harder learning curve than others? It was a stupid appointment from day one but we have to give him time, we have no choice.
 
DevilRed said:
Honestly didn't expect him to be this poor this fast. I think some of what he has said in the press, from the transfer window debacle to "fixing" the team..it really doesn't inspire confidence and in some ways you have to think its affected the team.

Rio looks a shell of himself from last season. Just torn apart today. Evans was weak against anichebe (although he has never been able to handle physical strikers well anyways). Buttner should not start anything other than cup matches.

Anderson tried hard but too many misplaced passes. Just a lot of terrible selections from Moyes and he has yet to be able to name a good strong start 11 since the Swansea match.
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agree totally with your last point - the team selections are just odd for me - it feels like he is trying different combinations of players together

far too open today and didn't control the game - can't understand why he didn't bring Fellaini on earlier - that was the change that was needed rather than taking Kagawa off for an inexperienced Januzaj who should really be introduced when we are winning to bed him in.....

its a learning experience for Moyes - its a strange feeling for United fans who have experienced having Fergie for most of our supporting lives but we need to get behind the manager

I do so some dark days ahead but City showed today it could be a low points championship race
 
kps88 said:
Oh sorry I was answering as a double negative to the second question. I think the squad is good enough to win the league.

There's plenty of faults in this team though!
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Really? What are they?


lem8sh said:
Chelsea and City without a doubt
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Chelsea? No fecking way.

City have a slightly better 1st team but we have the better squad. Either ways, to say Moyes inherited a team riddled with problems is just insane. I'm not asking Moyes to win the league at a canter or deliver the CL or anything of that sort but lets not start pretending this team isnt good enough to challenge for the title just because SAFs not here anymore.
 
Mr Anderson said:
And do what, bring in a manager who has the same players to deal with? feck sake he needs to get to know what players he likes and doesnt like. He isnt a miracle worker. He cant wave a wond and make his seletion play out of their skins. This was always going to take time.

His mistake today was his defensive picks, I must say. our 4 defenders were terrible and cringe to watch. Fergie got it wrong many a time, but that was fergie and we had trust in him. Moyes is the unknown and it was always going to be a tough start.
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Maybe if he didn't get rid of the successful coaching team he would know the players a little better.

And for the other quoters, No I'm not saying sack him I'm just expressing my opinion that he isn't anything special and that I believe there are better managers out there.
 
thegregster said:
Moyes comments after the game.
"We didn't defend well in the second half but, when we got back in, I expected us to win it with the talent we have got," Moyes said.
"No worries about the crowd because it was great. The stadium in mid-week was in great voice. People come here expecting us to play well but we didn't play well. We tried to pick it up in the second half but we got done by it as well.
"You're always going to have bad results. It is how you deal with them. There are lots of games to come and it's about howgotte you deal with them, so we look forward to them."


Thats just too fatalistic for me. He just seems to be too accepting of bad results and performances.
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You think he was like that in the dressing room?

I can't believe so many have forgotten how Fegie put a spin on poor days.
 
Saliph said:
We're only 3 points behind MC, and 4 points behind Chelsea, with an arguably more difficult fixture list. Nothing to worry about yet. The PL is going to be close this year, and once we start kicking into form the results will come.
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It's very arrogant to keep dismissing teams above us, really. We can't keep losing every weekend and thinking it's fine that Arsenal have a potential 8 point advantage over us already.
 
Not time to panic yet. The title's probably gone if Arsenal win today and top 4 is still well within our reach

Just hope Young, Buttner and Anderson never play again for us and Rio becomes our 5th choice CB
 
Varun_Utd said:
We shouldnt need RVP to get a win over West Brom at home. Neither should we need SAF. Our team is on a different level to theirs and however you like to paint it, the urgency in play, the tempo, the willingness to have a real go at the opposition is down to how the team is set up. We were playing west brom ffs, not Barca. Ando/Fellaini and Carrick is more than good enough.
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Well then that leaves us with Moyes doesn't it.
 
Brophs said:
Yeah, that'll be it. Good stuff.
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Very restrained there Brophs, but the post you responded to did set me thinking. When was it that Gill (I think, could have been Charlton) came out and said the club had plans for Fergie's retirement, and that the man who stepped in would be used to winning things and would have experience in Europe? Why did they throw that criteria out of the window?
 
thegregster said:
Moyes comments after the game.
"We didn't defend well in the second half but, when we got back in, I expected us to win it with the talent we have got," Moyes said.
"No worries about the crowd because it was great. The stadium in mid-week was in great voice. People come here expecting us to play well but we didn't play well. We tried to pick it up in the second half but we got done by it as well.
"You're always going to have bad results. It is how you deal with them. There are lots of games to come and it's about how you deal with them, so we look forward to them."


Thats just too fatalistic for me. He just seems to be too accepting of bad results and performances.
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"You're always going to have bad results." Thats the spirit..
 
Varun_Utd said:
Really? What are they?
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Geez there's nothing wrong with having faults in a team! Lack of a creative midfielder, most of our wingers are out of form, we rarely play as a proper cohesive unit etc.
 
Phil said:
This "Learning" thing annoys me. Why do we have to carry a manager with a bigger, harder learning curve than others? It was a stupid appointment from day one but we have to give him time, we have no choice.
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Do we?

I genuinely think that whether we'd gotten Mourinho, Pep, Klopp or pretty much anyone you care to mention, it would still have been a mammoth task. Mourinho's return hasn't exactly been seamless, for example.

I think Moyes has made mistakes, sure, but people are judging him by the standards of arguably the greatest manager ever, who had the benefit of 26 odd years worth of experience and knowledge of the club, and that's always going to be impossible for him to live up to.
 
No matter what happens, this would still be Moyes finest year. After all he won a trophy (community shield)
 
Varun_Utd said:
Really? What are they?





Chelsea? No fecking way.

City have a slightly better 1st team but we have the better squad. Either ways, to say Moyes inherited a team riddled with problems is just insane. I'm not asking Moyes to win the league at a canter or deliver the CL or anything of that sort but lets not start pretending this team isnt good enough to challenge for the title just because SAFs not here anymore.
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It's not because Fergie isn't here anymore it's because the team isn't strong enough. Van Persie carried us last year not to mention the competition from our rivals was non existent. This summer we have lost Fergie and failed to strengthen the squad. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise that we are struggling. The squad needs major surgery.
 
People analysing his interviews/press conferences and putting a negative spin on everything he says are getting right on my tits. I'm not thrilled with how things are going but why we can't focus on what's happening on the pitch I've no idea, it's not like there's not enough to moan about with our performances.

His quotes above just read like typical cliched manager bollocks - absolutely nothing wrong or defeatist with what he said.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Well then that leaves us with Moyes doesn't it.
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Yes it does but its upto the players as well but the truth is that its the same team that was there last year as well.

Am all for giving Moyes time but what am not having is people suddenly downplaying the quality of the team we have just so that they can defend Moyes.
 
Moriarty said:
Very restrained there Brophs, but the post you responded to did set me thinking. When was it that Gill (I think, could have been Charlton) came out and said the club had plans for Fergie's retirement, and that the man who stepped in would be used to winning things and would have experience in Europe? Why did they throw that criteria out of the window?
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I presume that was down to how strong Fergie's recommendation of Moyes was. That he basically 'appointed' him that afternoon in his house tells me that he was driving it.
 
lem8sh said:
It's not because Fergie isn't here anymore it's because the team isn't strong enough. Van Persie carried us last year not to mention the competition from our rivals was non existent. This summer we have lost Fergie and failed to strengthen the squad. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise that we are struggling. The squad needs major surgery.
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We've added Zaha and Fellaini and have had some loan returnees and quality youth players involved, at the expense of Scholes who was terrible last year anyway. So we have strengthened on a team that was already the best in the league. We didn't do it to a great enough extent which is the cause of frustration for many but that's no excuse for being 12th in the table.
 
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