They're also upheld by my company and Im sure we've come a long way, but surely there's room for improvement. A lot of improvement.
New Gillette ad
- Thread starter R.N7
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If you think this is limited to discrimination laws in companies, then you’re not paying enough attention.
I've paid enough attention to know that the initial Feminist movement was widely supported by the vast majority of people. Modern feminism is very divisive. Surely you don't believe that all those who criticize it - for numerous reasons - are wrong, ignorant, & ill-informed.
I just now realized that Norman Reedus is one of the Boondock saints..
Me tooI love that movie
There's room for improvement in every facet of life. But life has always been full of complexities, & life doesn't always deliver what we want, or expect. Me personally, my feelings of contempt when it comes to the mistreatment of women centres on those countries who do blatantly discriminate against the female sex, & deprive them of any sort of legal protection. That's where the real improvement needs to take place.
Totally agree with this.
Words of an informed man.
Funny how this view lets us men in the west totally off the hook.
It doesn't let anyone off the hook. If you're found guilty of discrimination, sexual harassment etc, you get punished here in the west.
And here lies the key. It's a big 'if'. Companies get away with a lot of shit.
What about sexist behaviour that isn't covered under discrimination law? Even if that's what you want to focus on, I think you're being a tad naive thinking that just because legislation is put in place the problem goes away. Women are more likely to be abused in domestic relationships, more likely to be sexually assaulted, more likely to be raped, these things don't stop happening because of laws put in place. As someone said earlier, the Civil Rights Act didn't mean that racism in the US disappeared.
Yes, and men are more likely to be murdered or be the victim of a violent crime. These things are not because of sexism.
You've changed my view with that emoticon
You can keep whatever views you want. It was a daft comparison and deserved a laugh.
Yet in the examples you and @Cascarino both gave the common denominator is that men are far more likely to be the perpetrators. Which neatly underlines two feminist arguments: a) men should address their own bad behaviour and b) men themselves would benefit from doing so.
Wait what!? Who's arguing against this ?
This constant talk of how women are treated in the Middle East whenever sexism in the west is brought up such as work place harassment, austerity(In particular women of colour), being paid less, the fact that women overwhelming do the most unpaid labour(Child care, house work)seems nothing more than a lazy way of changing the converstation away from the actual topic. And also displays a very basic reading of sexism (And I say this as someone who's read barely any feminist work).
So yeah I would say this lets us men competely off the hook.
I agree. Basically it contains advice I've given to my son as he grew up.
I'm pretty sure "Don't be a dick" is a solid advice any decent men gave to their sons. Can't believe anyone who got butthurt by the ad
Yep. I didn't think it was groundbreaking at the time.
I'm very glad to hear that everyone lives in a Utopian world where the sort of bad behavior seen in the Gillette ad is never seen.
And by utopian I mean imaginary.
Of course it is still just a way to sell us razor blades that are exactly the same as all other manufacturers.
And by utopian I mean imaginary.
Of course it is still just a way to sell us razor blades that are exactly the same as all other manufacturers.
Last edited:
that qualifier doesn't apply to a big enough number for bland advice to be seen as radical
The real issue is that Gillette are the sponsor of the New England Patriot's stadium. Should be boycotted in unison for just that alone.
The actual topic is about the mistreatment of women by men. Don't know about you, but I'd like to see all women (& men) across the world prosper & live without fear, subjugation, harassment etc. What I don't like though is identity politics, where people lock themselves in an echo chamber & convince themselves that their problems are far worse than anyone else's. & tell me where women are paid less than men for doing exactly the same job ? The laws in this country may not be perfect, but until someone comes up with a solution to stop certain men from raping, sexually assaulting, & sexually harassing, women, then what else is there ? It's all very well saying we should all be nice to each other, but this is the real world, & bad things happen, just as they have since the dawn of the human species, & just as they will long after we're all dead & gone. Like I say, I'm all for making the world a better place. But it needs to be for everyone & not just those who shout the loudest.
Some of us live in the real world & realize that ads like Gillette ain't gonna change things. Doesn't make us bad people though. Just a bit more realistic than others who want see the world as they'd like it to be.
If this was the prevalent attitude amongst the suffragettes they wouldn't have bothered. They'd have accepted things as they were. Why try to make a change if this is the real world and bad things happen?
How about the fact that over 90% of workplaces deaths & serious injuries are males. Are men simply more accident prone ?, or is it because they generally take on the more dangerous jobs ? Wouldn't that explain as to how some men are more deserving of higher pay. Is that a fair comparison ?
That's not really a valid example is it ? Women really were oppressed & light years behind men back then. So if you had a magic wand right now, which couldn't change the behaviour of men btw, what changes for the better would you make for women ?
The biggest industries for workplace deaths are construction and agriculture. Not industries known for outrageously high rates of pay.
& not industries too highly populated by women too.
You don't need a magic wand to change the behaviour of men . Societal values change, compare the treatment of women 30 years ago to today and you can see the improvement. There's still a long way to go of course, but just because 'bad things happen' doesn't mean that injustice should be ignored.
Whats your point here?
Well that’s a bit silly isn’t it?
That’s as irrelevant as me tossing up “Why didn’t women care about each other until the 1900’s”
The world is progressing quite nicely. Just because we can now tweet to millions of people in seconds, doesn’t mean societal change is possible on that same timeline.
How is it silly? It's a rebuttal to
The suffragettes did change their world.
Sure they did. Not as much as technology created by men, for women did though.
The idea that female empowerment is a solely female-led movement is ridiculous. The idea that it’s new, is also daft.
Gillette tubthumping in an advert is so far removed from The Sufragettes as to be insulting.
Everyone is just trying to make enough money to keep this Capitalist house of cards growing. It’s not any more complicated than that.
You're arguing things that I haven't said.
I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?
Of course it's not a solely female led movement, going back to the suffragettes for example there was the Men's League for Women's Suffrage, I'm unaware if there were other organisations but the movement wasn't supported solely by women. 'The idea that it's new, is also daft' I certainly never said that it was new, and a quick glance at the last few pages shows me no one else has said that
Again, something I never said. I haven't compared them at all, so I'm not sure why you're comparing them? I feel that you may have read one of my posts without reading the post I responded to, or the posts prior to that and lost the context.
Bit confused as to why you're telling me this? I don't think I've actually talked or given my opinion on the Gillette advert in this thread (funny considering the name of the topic).
Just to make it clear, I wasn't equating the Suffragettes with that Gillette advert. I haven't spoken about the advert at all.
I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?
Of course it's not a solely female led movement, going back to the suffragettes for example there was the Men's League for Women's Suffrage, I'm unaware if there were other organisations but the movement wasn't supported solely by women. 'The idea that it's new, is also daft' I certainly never said that it was new, and a quick glance at the last few pages shows me no one else has said that
Again, something I never said. I haven't compared them at all, so I'm not sure why you're comparing them? I feel that you may have read one of my posts without reading the post I responded to, or the posts prior to that and lost the context.
Bit confused as to why you're telling me this? I don't think I've actually talked or given my opinion on the Gillette advert in this thread (funny considering the name of the topic).
Just to make it clear, I wasn't equating the Suffragettes with that Gillette advert. I haven't spoken about the advert at all.
Last edited:
First, it’s not even relevant comparison. Second, I’ve already said it’s not good to compare wages on a national level due to all job types not being equal. Third, damgerous job does not necessarily equal more pay. Fourth, wage gaps need to considered when comparing men and women doing the job or same position.
Yet you’ve spent hours in this Gillette ad thread trying to convince everyone how ineffective it is and how there is no more to do in regards to behavior to women. Your “I live in the real world” bullshit is such a copout and typical from condescending types like yourself.
It is, right? Don't you think that activism maybe helped this progression along?