Phil Jones

i dread to think what are defensive record is with jones at centre half.

graned it doesnt tell the whole story but i have got to admitt that some things dont fill me with confidence, anderson shooting, park centre midfield but the main one at the moment is phil jones at centre half.

people talk about the step up etc....well that should make it easier as he's playing against the same players only with better players alongside him.

he cost £16.5m, he's on x amount of thousands per week so this "he's only 19" is no excuse. jonny evans has never been afforded the luxury of having his age as an excuse for poor performances. if im honest i think evans is a far superior centre half than jones.

dont get me wrong....jones is a good player and may well grow into an excellant centre half......but at the minute i think he's poor in that position.
 
If performances could be identified by smell and this performance was stored in a smelling backlot in Las Vegas it would be trackable by seeking out the scent of curry and egg salad flavoured runny shite with potential to crust.
 
He's been hit and miss as a CB for us this season. Getting moved around due to injuries week in week out doesn't help.

It does make me laugh at the people calling for Evans head earlier this season. I maintain what I've said all along: Bar Vidic he's been our best defender this year.
 
marjen said:
He's been hit and miss as a CB for us this season. Getting moved around due to injuries week in week out doesn't help.

It does make me laugh at the people calling for Evans head earlier this season. I maintain what I've said all along: Bar Vidic he's been our best defender this year.
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Evra? Smalling when he was fit?

Evans has been good and I still believe in the lad but he hasn't really.
 
cina said:
Evra? Smalling when he was fit?

Evans has been good and I still believe in the lad but he hasn't really.
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As a defender, there's been no contest when it comes to Evra and Evans. Evans has made one high profile mistake, otherwise been pretty flawless - Evra's had entire matches where his defending has been horrific(although he's had a decent season overall).

Smalling? His mistake for Basels goal that knocked us out of the CL irks me, and, understandably, he's struggled at times when played as a right back. Great, great, defender in the making, but please play him as a CB. And distribution wise, again no contest, Evans has been much better.

Anyway, off-topic. I think Jones has been the worst of our CB's, as I said understandably when taking into account the number of positional changes he's been going through.
 
marjen said:
He's been hit and miss as a CB for us this season. Getting moved around due to injuries week in week out doesn't help.

It does make me laugh at the people calling for Evans head earlier this season. I maintain what I've said all along: Bar Vidic he's been our best defender this year.
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i agree with evans.

when played at centre back jones is directly involved in every goal we concede as he was again lastnight. if evans had produced that perfomrance lastnight he would have been slaughtered. jones is one of these players fortunate to have the media backing though
 
marjen said:
As a defender, there's been no contest when it comes to Evra and Evans. Evans has made one high profile mistake, otherwise been pretty flawless - Evra's had entire matches where his defending has been horrific(although he's had a decent season overall).

Smalling? His mistake for Basels goal that knocked us out of the CL irks me, and, understandably, he's struggled at times when played as a right back. Great, great, defender in the making, but please play him as a CB. And distribution wise, again no contest, Evans has been much better.

Anyway, off-topic. I think Jones has been the worst of our CB's, as I said understandably when taking into account the number of positional changes he's been going through.
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And Evans mistake against City led to a 6-1 annihilation. Other than that he hasn't done a single thing wrong.

Evra, yes he hasn't been overly consistent in defense but he's still played more games than any others, "no contest" is ridiculous.
 
cina said:
And Evans mistake against City led to a 6-1 annihilation. Other than that he hasn't done a single thing wrong.

Evra, yes he hasn't been overly consistent in defense but he's still played more games than any others, "no contest" is ridiculous.
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We wouldn't have lost that game 6-1, Evans mistake or not, if we'd have been anything resembling professional.

Although, it was a big mistake.

Point being, he's been largely good when played this year, while Smalling has been a bit inconsistent for whatever reason(changing between full-back/cb surely takes some of the blame).
 
marjen said:
We wouldn't have lost that game 6-1, Evans mistake or not, if we'd have been anything resembling professional.

Although, it was a big mistake.

Point being, he's been largely good when played this year, while Smalling has been a bit inconsistent for whatever reason(changing between full-back/cb surely takes some of the blame).
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:confused: You can say the exact same thing about Basel.
 
The Phil Jones Conundrum
http://www.bagsynotin.net/2012/01/the-phil-jones-conundrum/

Well it has been a big year for the teenage star, starting the season regularly performing for Blackburn Rovers, before getting a big money move to Manchester United and being at the heart of a respectable England U21 defence. He started the season well, so where lies the problem?

By and large Jones has performed well for his new club, earning himself a spot in his countries starting line up for the win over Spain, however one or two issues are becoming quite noticeable. Let me explain. Jones’ ability is clear for all to see, and chances are he will get over this and go on to be a truly great centre half, however, whilst Phil is a natural centre back it is somewhat ironic that so far this season that has been his worst position, with him looking far more comfortable when placed in central midfield or even when at right back.

The main issue that is noticeable with Jones is also one of his huge positive points, namely that he makes surging runs forward. This is all well and good however when playing at centre back he needs to learn when to make such a run and when he needs to stay back, a skill that his also young team mate Chris Smalling appears to have got down to a tee, as noticed by how overlooked his runs from the back are, since he is rarely caught out of position following them. Such an attribute obviously plays a large part in his supreme performances when at “lesser risk” positions such as right back and central midfield (by lesser risk I mean that there is another line of defence around him, not that he can get away with it completely with no harm).

Another issue with Phil is his aerial ability, now Jones is good in the air, however when compared to other centre backs his (relative) lack of height can be an issue when facing the bigger strikers or in certain set plays. Added into his inexperience this can cause issues, such as what we saw a few times against Newcastle for instance, with Shola Ameobi causing issues for the youngster, now another reason for this is his youth and lack of strength (again, relative) as a result, which was shown most of all when he was repeatedly swatted aside by Yakubu in the match against Blackburn Rovers.

Don’t get me wrong, in no way am I claiming these defeats were in any way a result of Phil Jones, who is a top talent and will in all likelihood go on to be one of the best players on earth, but if I had to put my money on anything it would be this, Phil Jones will not be the better half of the seemingly inevitable Manchester United and England centre back pairing, that title will go to Chris Smalling.
 
I think his biggest problem isn't his surging runs upfield or his lack of aerial ability, it's the way he gets attracted to the ball. He ends up coming out for headers he will never win or making challenges that have no chance of being successful. It also leaves his central defensive partner a few yards deeper than him and fecks up our offside trap as a result.

For Yakubu's second goal he over-committed to a tackle and let Yakubu waltz past him. Instead, he should have backed off him and forced Yakubu out wide and onto his left foot. The Cabaye free-kick was conceded from a similarly needless challenge.

With Ba's first goal the other day he ended up competing for a header he hadn't a hope of winning and leaving a huge gap behind him for Ba to collect the flick on.
 
From what I have seen so far, Jones is more suited to CM or maybe RB than CB - this might change over time but at the moment I personally want to see him play midfield as much as possible. Unfortunately injuries have meant he hasnt been able to settle into any particular position.

I think the Carrick-Jones combo could be a good one.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think his biggest problem isn't his surging runs upfield or his lack of aerial ability, it's the way he gets attracted to the ball. He ends up coming out for headers he will never win or making challenges that have no chance of being successful. It also leaves his central defensive partner a few yards deeper than him and fecks up our offside trap as a result.

For Yakubu's second goal he over-committed to a tackle and let Yakubu waltz past him. Instead, he should have backed off him and forced Yakubu out wide and onto his left foot. The Cabaye free-kick was conceded from a similarly needless challenge.

With Ba's first goal the other day he ended up competing for a header he hadn't a hope of winning and leaving a huge gap behind him for Ba to collect the flick on.
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Yup. He tends to go full throttle for every ball he thinks he might come close to winning. Sometimes you just have to respect the circumstances and bide your time and put the strikers off rather than try and outright win the ball or even stand off when need be. Of course he does seem to be more of an all action defender like a vidic or terry rather than Rio but even so, that still involves a great deal of tact in picking your moments.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think his biggest problem isn't his surging runs upfield or his lack of aerial ability, it's the way he gets attracted to the ball. He ends up coming out for headers he will never win or making challenges that have no chance of being successful. It also leaves his central defensive partner a few yards deeper than him and fecks up our offside trap as a result.

For Yakubu's second goal he over-committed to a tackle and let Yakubu waltz past him. Instead, he should have backed off him and forced Yakubu out wide and onto his left foot. The Cabaye free-kick was conceded from a similarly needless challenge.

With Ba's first goal the other day he ended up competing for a header he hadn't a hope of winning and leaving a huge gap behind him for Ba to collect the flick on.
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My thoughts as well. Bit of the David Luiz symptom
 
When Vidic was in his pomp he won perhaps 90% of the aerial balls or first tackles leaving little for Rio to do. However with Jones who a) doesnt win as much as Vidic but also goes for balls that are unwinnable he has given Rio more to do and it shows. Rio is having to put in too many last ditch tackles or play that bit deeper as he doesnt have the pace anymore to play more compressed.
 
All these issues with his defending will go in time. He acts rashly at times because he's 19 years old.
 
Solius said:
All these issues with his defending will go in time. He acts rashly at times because he's 19 years old.
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Definitely. That's why I was stressing it's not some fundamental weakness to his game, like being shit in the air. Just needs to make the right decisions more often. A quality that's usually directly related to experience.
 
Decotron said:
Rio turned out ok didnt he? Mistakes are part of the course im afraid. Always will be with young players.
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No he didn't.
Rio played when we beat West Ham 7-1 then went to Leeds.Point is,defenders need the experince.If they're slaughtered all the time how are they expected to improve?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think his biggest problem isn't his surging runs upfield or his lack of aerial ability, it's the way he gets attracted to the ball. He ends up coming out for headers he will never win or making challenges that have no chance of being successful. It also leaves his central defensive partner a few yards deeper than him and fecks up our offside trap as a result.

For Yakubu's second goal he over-committed to a tackle and let Yakubu waltz past him. Instead, he should have backed off him and forced Yakubu out wide and onto his left foot. The Cabaye free-kick was conceded from a similarly needless challenge.

With Ba's first goal the other day he ended up competing for a header he hadn't a hope of winning and leaving a huge gap behind him for Ba to collect the flick on.
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Quite

I reckon these flaws are a lot do with his youthful exuberance, and his all action style of play. Once he gains experience these issues should iron out. In the mean time playing in a number of positions will gain him a lot more tactical awareness of the game once he settles into a more permanent position.
 
Playing centrally alongside Rio today - perhaps, ironically, his least convincing position for United so far.

Saying that, I think a well communicating, concentrated axis of Lindegaard, Ferdinand and Jones is just about the best we can do now, given form and injury.

Well capable of doing a job for us today.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
Playing centrally alongside Rio today - perhaps, ironically, his least convincing position for United so far.

Saying that, I think a well communicating, concentrated axis of Lindegaard, Ferdinand and Jones is just about the best we can do now, given form and injury.

Well capable of doing a job for us today.
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He'll play at RB, Smalling at CB. 100 %.
 
Looks knackered, not only physically but mentally, really needs a break. Looking forward to Rafa playing at rb again.
 
Needs a rest. With Smalling back, Jones should get a game off and we can play Rafael at RB.
 
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