Phil Jones

His best games for United have been at right-back and in midfield. In the long term centre-back might be his best position but he has a lot to learn before he becomes a regular in that position.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
He's just inexperienced, he'll be a fabulous CB one day.
Click to expand...

Yep he probably will be, I'm just making the point that he's a much more effective RB or CM than he is CB at the moment. That's understandable though I suppose as experience is one of the key things needed at CB.
 
Jones dejected by defeat

Phil Jones is as disappointed with the defeat to Blackburn as he was when being part of the Rovers team demolished 7-1 in the corresponding fixture last season.

However, the centre-back insists the champions will bounce back from the major disappointment by looking to win at Newcastle on Wednesday.

United missed the chance to usurp Manchester City at the top of the table and Jones was clearly dejected afterwards, feeling the champions have nobody to blame but themselves.

"Gutted pretty much sums that day up," he told MUTV. "And on his [Sir Alex's] birthday too. We weren't at the races today and we punished ourselves in the first half. We were too slow, too laboured and not quick enough. We're just generally disappointed."

When asked why the Reds started so lethargically, he replied: "I don't know. You'll have to ask everyone how they thought they felt but, from my point of view, probably everybody's point of view, we should have kicked on from there but we'll pick ourselves up and go again on Wednesday night.

"The injuries don't help but it's no excuse. We weren't good enough, nowhere near good enough. We've just got to kick on from here and get back to winning ways."

Jones admitted he felt coming back to 2-2 so quickly after falling two goals behind, thanks to a Dimitar Berbatov brace, may not have helped United's cause in the long run.

"I think that was our downfall," he reasoned. "Coming back too soon. I think we thought we'd won it.

"We got one back, got two back and probably thought we'd won it. We eased off and they punished us. I knew it'd be a tough game - they came here and full credit to them. They thoroughly deserved the win as we weren't at the races today.

"I feel worse now than I did last season when Blackburn were smashed 7-1 by United. That puts into perspective how disappointed I am. So we've got to pick ourselves up. It won't be easy but the Manchester United way is to pick ourselves up and go again on Wednesday night, looking for those three points."

Jones dejected after Rovers defeat - Official Manchester United Website

Love this kid. Tremendous attitude.
 
Edmeiste said:
Jones dejected by defeat

Phil Jones is as disappointed with the defeat to Blackburn as he was when being part of the Rovers team demolished 7-1 in the corresponding fixture last season.

However, the centre-back insists the champions will bounce back from the major disappointment by looking to win at Newcastle on Wednesday.

United missed the chance to usurp Manchester City at the top of the table and Jones was clearly dejected afterwards, feeling the champions have nobody to blame but themselves.

"Gutted pretty much sums that day up," he told MUTV. "And on his [Sir Alex's] birthday too. We weren't at the races today and we punished ourselves in the first half. We were too slow, too laboured and not quick enough. We're just generally disappointed."

When asked why the Reds started so lethargically, he replied: "I don't know. You'll have to ask everyone how they thought they felt but, from my point of view, probably everybody's point of view, we should have kicked on from there but we'll pick ourselves up and go again on Wednesday night.

"The injuries don't help but it's no excuse. We weren't good enough, nowhere near good enough. We've just got to kick on from here and get back to winning ways."

Jones admitted he felt coming back to 2-2 so quickly after falling two goals behind, thanks to a Dimitar Berbatov brace, may not have helped United's cause in the long run.

"I think that was our downfall," he reasoned. "Coming back too soon. I think we thought we'd won it.

"We got one back, got two back and probably thought we'd won it. We eased off and they punished us. I knew it'd be a tough game - they came here and full credit to them. They thoroughly deserved the win as we weren't at the races today.

"I feel worse now than I did last season when Blackburn were smashed 7-1 by United. That puts into perspective how disappointed I am. So we've got to pick ourselves up. It won't be easy but the Manchester United way is to pick ourselves up and go again on Wednesday night, looking for those three points."

Jones dejected after Rovers defeat - Official Manchester United Website

Love this kid. Tremendous attitude.
Click to expand...

For stating the obvious? Every player would have said sth similar.
 
Exciting prospect no doubt but am I the only one who thinks that, right now, he's the poorest central defender in our squad?

Carrick's attempted tackle for their second was poor but Jones let him run by him afterwards far too easily. Very poor defending.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exciting prospect no doubt but am I the only one who thinks that, right now, he's the poorest central defender in our squad?

Carrick's attempted tackle for their second was poor but Jones let him run by him afterwards far too easily. Very poor defending.
Click to expand...

A bit unfair as he has had to cope with playing at least 4 different outfield position since arriving at a new club only this summer.

If we left him in central defence for 5 games in a row he'd begin to look like one again, sadly that doesn't seem likely with the way we have rotated him this season.
 
He'll definitely improve with a run of games in that position. Not sure if we can afford to give them to him. We have a horrible habit of defending like spastics every time he plays in central defence, no matter who's alongside him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exciting prospect no doubt but am I the only one who thinks that, right now, he's the poorest central defender in our squad?

Carrick's attempted tackle for their second was poor but Jones let him run by him afterwards far too easily. Very poor defending.
Click to expand...

I agree, but that still makes him a pretty good CB.

Central defenders take longer to develop, it's about positioning and recognition which have to be learned with experience.

He's looked vulnerable nearly every time he's played, especially in the air. I think he'll get there, but I'm not confident we'll keep a clean sheet with him at CB.

How good did Rio or Vida look at 19 at CB? Probably not as good as Jones.
 
Now having watched the game, it's not like Jones was responsible for any of our goals, as far as I could see. He wasn't exactly dominant, but he just got unlucky for Blackburn's second that his tackle on Yakubu ended up bouncing right in front of the striker with a clear path to the goal.
 
He is an outstanding footballer. I am starting to think he will go to waste if he is a centre back.

Today he was pretty shocking. As Pogue says Evans looked far more a centre back than Jones did at this age.

how much did we miss Evans today?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Dunno about Rio or Vida but Jonny Evans was a better central defender at 19 than Phil Jones is now.
Click to expand...

Yes he was and he's a more natural defender then Jones. On the evidence of this season playing for United it's clear that his best position is midfield. To be honest I don't understand why we didn't start with either him or Carrick in the middle instead of the Park/Da Silva combo who was ineffective and without penetration.

It's not often but I say this but I want Evans back, sooner rather then later.
 
We sometimes forget to look at the basics when we enjoy watching a player does something special, like beating players. He has plenty to learn as a centerhalf and obviously playing in a situation like today's team will expose him.

I still don't think centerhalf is the future position for him. Not because he can't do it, but because I think it will be a waste. Looking at his energy and technique, he should be playing in a position where he'll be more involved, in midfield. Same reason why I don't like Rooney as the front player. Get him more involved, and it'll be good for the team.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Dunno about Rio or Vida but Jonny Evans was a better central defender at 19 than Phil Jones is now.
Click to expand...

Really unfair on Jones, that.

You're comparing him to a guy who grew up at United. Jones didn't have that, is in his first season here and is being played out of position all over the park for a team that's new to him.

It's a big ask for him to suddenly play at centre half for United, alongside a midfielder and in front of a keeper who is really struggling.
 
I think a lot of what we've seen from Phil Jones this season could be summed up as "all over the place". With all the positive and negative ways in which that can be interpreted.

It's weird, he consistently gets the basics wrong in every position he plays yet he's still fantastic. He's such an exciting player to watch, even when he's having a shocker.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
Really unfair on Jones, that.

You're comparing him to a guy who grew up at United. Jones didn't have that, is in his first season here and is being played out of position all over the park for a team that's new to him.

It's a big ask for him to suddenly play at centre half for United, alongside a midfielder and in front of a keeper who is really struggling.
Click to expand...

Don't disagree with any of that but my point stands.

I agree that there's loads of good reasons for Jones to look incredibly raw but it's still a valid observation to make.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Don't disagree with any of that but my point stands.

I agree that there's loads of good reasons for Jones to look incredibly raw but it's still a valid observation to make.
Click to expand...

Surely it would be a more valid observation after he's at least had a run of games at centre half? I see your point - that as things stand today he's the weakest centre half - but I reckon he could very quickly get up to speed if he had some games there.
 
Yeah, you'd think so. Smalling improved massively over the course of his first season at United so hopefully Jones will do the same. I guess the difference is that Smalling's learning curve didn't seem to cost us any points.
 
I'm starting to think CB is Jones' weakest position. He makes an excellent midfield player and a superb right back. We had no option but to play him in the middle today and the defence as a whole was really, really poor.

I still can't quite believe we managed to concede 3 at home to Blackburn and lose against the worst team in the league, who didn't even have a full team. Thank feck for the Chelsea and Spurs results, and come on Sunderland.
 
I've always said it.........finally some people agree with me (and Capello).

The best position for Jones is in the midfield, he has played his best games for Blackburn in that position, he was brilliant for England against Spain in that position and he looked fantastic for us in that position.

Maybe he will be a fantastic CB in the future for us but not right now!!!
 
Everyone keeps going on about this guy like he's the second coming.

Not seen anything while he's been here that tells me that he's going to be a world class centre back. I prefer Smalling to be honest.

He was poor today - that said - I think he may still have been carrying an injury - and he's still very young, but for us I think his best performances have been in central midfield. That said - I don't see him as a central midfield and I think at time he'll be a central defender - but still some way to go. He's still got to learn the game at this level - at the moment he vacates his position at the wrong time sometimes to break forward, and his defending needs some work - lots of mistakes - many of which he recovers but the fact that he makes them gives the oppposition hope that they can score and makes our defensive line vulnerable.
 
He needs an absolutely solid CB alongside him to actually cover for his mistakes imo. Right now, he tends to have these lapses in concentration and tends to be out of position far too often compared to the likes of smalling and evans. Which is why i believe he'l need a Rio or a Vidic alongside.

Atm, he looks a far better CM than a CB to me. Needs a lot of work on his defensive game.
 
Varun_Utd said:
He needs an absolutely solid CB alongside him to actually cover for his mistakes imo. Right now, he tends to have these lapses in concentration and tends to be out of position far too often compared to the likes of smalling and evans. Which is why i believe he'l need a Rio or a Vidic alongside.

Atm, he looks a far better CM than a CB to me. Needs a lot of work on his defensive game.
Click to expand...

He had Rio beside him against Basel at home, and that was the worst performance by him all season. Absolutely shocking positionally, it's as if he'd never played central defence before.

Brosstan said:
Jones showed again that he is positionally too poor at the moment to be deemed a good center back. Much better in midfield where his energy comes to good use. Still young though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, agree totally.

One of Jones' best attributes is his energy/drive and capacity to close down, it can be a bit manic but it's effectve and why many people have been comparing him to Keane, amongst others. It's ineffective in defence though, in reality it actually needs to be stifled in order to play there. As we've seen against Norwich, Basel etc the way he leaves the line and charges to win the ball just isnt suited to defence as it leaves so much space in behind. In midfield not only is this trait not a problem, it's actually desirable to possess, as it enables us to win the ball high up the pitch and pressure the opposition.

The way Jones naturally goes about playing football is much more suited to midfield. He's not as refined or subtle as Smalling or Evans, and I dont think he ever will be. But more importantly, even if he could be taught to cut some of those elements of his game out and become more disciplined as a player, we'd be losing one of the factors which makes him so special.

In addition to closing down, his runs from deep is the other element of his game which has recieved praise, but again this is unsuited to central defence. These were blown completely out of proportion by the media who acted like a defender getting forward was the pinnacle of the game, when in reality it's largely unnecessary, irrelevant to the position he's playing and against better opposition risky, as it leaves us open to the counter. I thought the way these were blown up was excessive, in the Tottenham game for example, Jones was getting all the post match plaudits for that run he did, when in reality Evans had the better game defensively, he didnt put a foot wrong. Defenders are supposed to defend, which is why someone like Evans who just gets on with defending is better in that position.

Getting forward the odd time isnt a bad thing, but when it's the most effective element of a players game then it's probably time he switched from centre back, as it isnt going to get the best out of him. Theres still no doubt in my mind that Jones could learn to play centre back though, as his talent seems pretty boundless, but he's perfectly suited to a role in midfield, so I dont see the need to try and shape him into something he's not.
 
Theon said:
He had Rio beside him against Basel at home, and that was the worst performance by him all season. Absolutely shocking positionally, it's as if he'd never played central defence before.
Click to expand...

Remember that quite well but i do think it was a one off because we were collectivel all over the place that night. Still think he'd be okay with either of rio or vidic alongside him.

At the moment, he's far better at CM though. agreed.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exciting prospect no doubt but am I the only one who thinks that, right now, he's the poorest central defender in our squad?

Carrick's attempted tackle for their second was poor but Jones let him run by him afterwards far too easily. Very poor defending.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

A bit like DDG, young and potentially one of the best in their position but long way too goo.

Would certainly prefer to see him in Midfield or Wing back, at least this season.
 
Theon said:
He had Rio beside him against Basel at home, and that was the worst performance by him all season. Absolutely shocking positionally, it's as if he'd never played central defence before.



Yeah, agree totally.

One of Jones' best attributes is his energy/drive and capacity to close down, it can be a bit manic but it's effectve and why many people have been comparing him to Keane, amongst others. It's ineffective in defence though, in reality it actually needs to be stifled in order to play there. As we've seen against Norwich, Basel etc the way he leaves the line and charges to win the ball just isnt suited to defence as it leaves so much space in behind. In midfield not only is this trait not a problem, it's actually desirable to possess, as it enables us to win the ball high up the pitch and pressure the opposition.

The way Jones naturally goes about playing football is much more suited to midfield. He's not as refined or subtle as Smalling or Evans, and I dont think he ever will be. But more importantly, even if he could be taught to cut some of those elements of his game out and become more disciplined as a player, we'd be losing one of the factors which makes him so special.

In addition to closing down, his runs from deep is the other element of his game which has recieved praise, but again this is unsuited to central defence. These were blown completely out of proportion by the media who acted like a defender getting forward was the pinnacle of the game, when in reality it's largely unnecessary, irrelevant to the position he's playing and against better opposition risky, as it leaves us open to the counter. I thought the way these were blown up was excessive, in the Tottenham game for example, Jones was getting all the post match plaudits for that run he did, when in reality Evans had the better game defensively, he didnt put a foot wrong. Defenders are supposed to defend, which is why someone like Evans who just gets on with defending is better in that position.

Getting forward the odd time isnt a bad thing, but when it's the most effective element of a players game then it's probably time he switched from centre back, as it isnt going to get the best out of him. Theres still no doubt in my mind that Jones could learn to play centre back though, as his talent seems pretty boundless, but he's perfectly suited to a role in midfield, so I dont see the need to try and shape him into something he's not.
Click to expand...

Great post.
 
Whilst I agree Jones' game is currently unsuited to the CB area, I do think he'd be a better CB over time. At the moment he relies on his physical attributes for most of the defending he does, his tactical awareness is not fully developed and with all due respect to Blackburn I doubt this is an area they focussed on when they were bringing him through. You can see his tactical awareness is not there when he plays CB and even in CM, at RB this is less noticeable and the rigours of these positions mean any errors are less costly and noticeable.

Yesterday for me was particularly interesting, he was a the only natural CB in the team and Blackburn only had Yakubu up top yet he and Carrick marked him as a normal CB pairing would rather than have Jones man mark and deal with Yakubu's physical presence. Some of this could be down to instructions from the coaching staff but players like Rio take things upon themselves. Against Wolves for instance after Fletcher's goal, Rio man marked Fletcher to stop him pulling off onto Evra and creating a mis match. The difference here is experience.

Jones for me has all the natural attributes to become a great defender, just because he can play a bit doesn't mean his talents would be wasted there. I think a role which will become very important is that of a ball playing CB, you see it at Barca when Busquets plays at CB. Jones can iniate attacks from the back, he's strong, quick, determined, great on the ball and the only thing he lacks is tactical awareness and nous. It will come with experience though, that said I'm sure Keane started as a CB. Time will tell where he ends up though. Right now I think he's best suited to the full back role.
 
he's like a headless chicken at CB

I thought he was quite good at RB though and promising in CM

btw Keane didnt start at CB. Actually when at Forest he was more of an AM
 
golden_blunder said:
he's like a headless chicken at CB

I thought he was quite good at RB though and promising in CM

btw Keane didnt start at CB. Actually when at Forest he was more of an AM
Click to expand...

Hmmm must have confused myself, I think it was in Clough's autobiography, he either said Keane started as a CB or intimated Keane would be able to convert into a CB in his later career.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.