Rio Ferdinand

Clarke Carlisle has asked the players in question to get together and express their thoughts.

I will be happy if this happens sooner than later. Then we can forget this issue over the shirts.

It's become a story of rio vs Fergie, which I am guessing was not the intended purpose of this.

I just wish they could have gotten together with Carlise and put something on paper before the weekend.
 
Eyepopper said:
Well what I'm suggesting is that perhaps Rios performance during the game had something to do with Fergies reaction.
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That certainly might be a factor, but Fergie really dropped a bollock on this one by being so public about it. That's the thing I find the strangest in this whole fiasco, it's weird how he's somehow started being so open with the press considering how guarded he normally is about internal issues.
 
Andrew~ said:
That certainly might be a factor, but Fergie really dropped a bollock on this one by being so public about it. That's the thing I find the strangest in this whole fiasco, it's weird how he's somehow started being so open with the press considering how guarded he normally is about internal issues.
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this
 
Andrew~ said:
That certainly might be a factor, but Fergie really dropped a bollock on this one by being so public about it. That's the thing I find the strangest in this whole fiasco, it's weird how he's somehow started being so open with the press considering how guarded he normally is about internal issues.
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But this wasn't purely an internal issue. He had a pop at Jason Roberts too. My guess, and it's no more than that, is that the whole unity thing was decided at a higher level and the clubs went along with it without considering the possibility that someone might rebel. Whatever the case may be, I think Rio acted according to the dictates of his conscience and shouldn't be punished for that.
 
Moriarty said:
But this wasn't purely an internal issue. He had a pop at Jason Roberts too. My guess, and it's no more than that, is that the whole unity thing was decided at a higher level and the clubs went along with it without considering the possibility that someone might rebel. Whatever the case may be, I think Rio acted according to the dictates of his conscience and shouldn't be punished for that.
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That's true, but his post match comments about feeling like Rio 'embarrassed' him definitely needed to stay within the club. There was no need for him to come out and threaten punishment so publicly. He gives himself, and the club, a very bad image by appearing to put his own ego above issues like racism.
 
Andrew~ said:
That's true, but his post match comments about feeling like Rio 'embarrassed' him definitely needed to stay within the club. There was no need for him to come out and threaten punishment so publicly. He gives himself, and the club, a very bad image by appearing to put his own ego above issues like racism.
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Only one way to deal with racism in my opinion and I can't put it better than LKJ:

 
That'sHernandez said:
The problem is it's a step in the right direction that took place almost 20 years ago, and what progress has been made since? If last year and the U21 game in Serbia are anything to go by, not a huge amount. Black and players of other ethnicity must surely feel as though not enough is being done and would like to see more proactivity from an organisation that is supposed to represent them.
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Yep I totally agree with you but I think its the wrong way to go about it. What is the message your giving out by not wearing the T-shirt?
 
Plato said:
And Fergie unnecessarily criticised Roberts which put Rio in a precarious situation. Hindsight is 20/20. There are a lot of ifs,buts,ands, coulds, woulds and shoulds.

As others have mentioned, both Rio and SAF could have dealt with the situation better. To me, this is where the discussion should stop. Instead what seems to be a misunderstanding is now being exaggerated as a major fall-out between manager and player.
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This isn't anti Rio - though i've sided with Sir Alex. I think that Rio has the Gob and has the medium to express himself and he's not used it. People will question why Sir Alex hit out at Roberts - but there may or may not be a reason for that. We don't know.

I would agree it's not a club issue. It's not a major falling out.
 
Lawman said:
Yep I totally agree with you but I think its the wrong way to go about it. What is the message your giving out by not wearing the T-shirt?
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Speaking for myself, the message I got was that the FA are a bunch of fecking hypocrites that apply double standards when it suits them.
 
Striker10 said:
This isn't anti Rio - though i've sided with Sir Alex. I think that Rio has the Gob and has the medium to express himself and he's not used it. People will question why Sir Alex hit out at Roberts - but there may or may not be a reason for that. We don't know.

I would agree it's not a club issue. It's not a major falling out.
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But why are we taking sides? In my eyes, there's simply no reason to. Rio could have done something differently and the same with Fergie. Didn't Rio tweet in support of not wearing the t-shirt? If so, he did express himself but one could argue he should have done more (talk to Fergie). Once again, we don't really know what happened behind closed doors and we're getting up in arms over very few details in a situation where one detail can change the whole outlook of the situation.

Basically, I don't think we have enough context to really say all that much. On that note, what more is there to discuss? It's a simple breakdown in communication. Quite preventable and silly it's even transpired. Arguing what either person could or should have done is futile now and beside the point. The focus should now be on nipping this "issue" in the bud and moving on towards more pressing issues.
 
Only feck up here is that Rio should have told Ferguson about his intentions before hand - specially when Rio must have known what Ferguson had said before the game.

It wouldn't have been an issue had he done that.
 
Don't understand why the players didnt have a choice - the club said that they'd all wear them
 
_63587092_kickout-chart-2.jpg


1. Professional football £89,142
2. Grassroots football £66,021
3. Education £16,728
4. Community £100,225
5. European football £5,751
6. Weeks of action £163,010
7. Governance £32,303
Total spend: £473,180
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That amount of money is a joke, and I don't wonder why Rio feels the way he does. The FA don't take it seriously so why should he.
 
I very rarely disagree with SAF but this is rather embarrassing for him. He has absolutely no right to get involved in any of this and he's come out of it looking like an idiot! What right does he have to 'deal with' Rio over his decision not to support a cause that he clearly has an issue with? Incredibly stupid stance by a man I thought was a little more clever than this!
 
fergieisold said:
I very rarely disagree with SAF but this is rather embarrassing for him. He has absolutely no right to get involved in any of this and he's come out of it looking like an idiot! What right does he have to 'deal with' Rio over his decision not to support a cause that he clearly has an issue with? Incredibly stupid stance by a man I thought was a little more clever than this!
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See this is where it all starts getting out of hand.......

If he 'deals' with him it will be for how he went about it, not what he believes.
 
The fact that so much of Kick it Out is FA funded puts them in a difficult position - they can't go and slam the FA even if they may want to - I suspect they weren't happy with John Terry sanction but they can't exactly come out and slam the decision as they need the FA decision

That's certainly an issue, maybe it should become player funded via further contributions to the PFA - may be difficult, nay impossible to get the players to agree to that
 
Eyepopper said:
See this is where it all starts getting out of hand.......

If he 'deals' with him it will be for how he went about it, not what he believes.
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Well if I was guessing I'd say he's heard SAFs comments and been so fecked off by them he's screwed him over by not informing him of his stance, that's a shitty thing to do but it's nothing the club can touch him for. SAF can obviously be petulant and drop him for it though.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Who knows but I am sure it will be headline news and either way.

Far more important than top v 2nd in the league
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Well, one would assume that a relatively high profile racism case is more important than top v 2nd... unless of course one is a fecking moron.
 
It would be best to get rid of all this handshake business. Just play the fecking game.

What is the point of pre-game handshakes anyways?
 
Andrew~ said:
Well, one would assume that a relatively high profile racism case is more important than top v 2nd... unless of course one is a fecking moron.
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Next Sunday I will care far more about the game.

Handshakes are needless soap opera shite.
 
Sack Fergie!Hire Rio !!(As player manager)

Ferguson doesn't know anything at all about what he is doing!!!
 
I think Rio should have worn the shirt in respect for the SAF & United, but if he felt so strongly about it he should have explained his reasons to SAF & United in advance so that SAF could have said something like "Rio has explained his reasons & I accept that" even if he didn't agree with it.

Of course we have no idea what went on behind the scenes but clearly SAF wasn't happy about it.

I guess Terry gets the last laugh...
 
Going by what we know as fact, I still think SAF is wrong here. He was wrong to have such a pop at Roberts, and wrong to make it so public about Rio. We don't know what was and wasn't said behind the scenes, but I do find it strange that some people just can't or won't see why Rio would be against wearing it and shouldn't be forced to.

In this situation I feel it's more about Fergie being embarrased than anything else. Which is about one person and one person only.

Again, I'll say that it's Saf who has created this problem with such an unnecessary reaction to Roberts. People may argue he should be allowed to control and tell Rio what to do as his boss (something I do not agree with at all, but that's not the point), but who is he to lash out at Roberts for feeling let down by a campaign he feels doesn't speak for him? It's like my attitude to MUST, they obviously have a root cause at heart that I agree with, but their methods and words I don't agree with so I choose not to have them speak and act on my behalf. Does that make me opposed to fan ownership? No. It just means I'm not happy with them and I shouldn't be forced to pretend I am.

Whether Rio is right or wrong here, I just can't see how people can expect him to be happy to be forced to wear a t-shirt he is obviously so against doing. It's an issue that probably wouldn't be mentioned at all, if only barely, if Saf hadn't shone a glaring spotlight on it. I just don't see why he did so, unless he wants the arguement.
 
Colin129 said:
I think Rio should have worn the shirt in respect for the SAF & United, but if he felt so strongly about it he should have explained his reasons to SAF & United in advance so that SAF could have said something like "Rio has explained his reasons & I accept that" even if he didn't agree with it.

Of course we have no idea what went on behind the scenes but clearly SAF wasn't happy about it.

I guess Terry gets the last laugh...
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That's the point, we don't know.

How do we know, for example, that Rio didn't tell Saf and Saf reacted badly to it and wanted to make an issue of it and so that's why he laid into Roberts the day before? I'm not saying that's what happened of course, but it all just does seem very strange.

I'm not saying I agree with Rio here, I'm not sure I do, but I certainly just can't see why so many people think he should be forced to wear a t-shirt support a campaign he clearly feels let down by? I wonder if everyone who thinks that would toe the line regardless of their personal beliefs if it came down to it.
 
How many people here would have applauded if, hypothetically, Glen Johnson had refused to wear the Suarez t-shirt? Somehow I don't think people would have been criticising him, and backing Dalglish.
 
Count Orduck said:
How many people here would have applauded if, hypothetically, Glen Johnson had refused to wear the Suarez t-shirt? Somehow I don't think people would have been criticising him, and backing Dalglish.
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That was a completely different scenario though. Back then, it had been proven in a court of law that Suarez was being found guilty of racially abusing Evra. Liverpool were going against the word of the law by dawning those t-shirts in support of their man.

Ferdinand has done this against the kick it out campaign because of his own opinion. Nothing has been proven which says the campaign is a failure at all and his actions only harm it.
 
Have the club a right to force players to become billboards for any cause the club, or the manager, decide to support. If the club put 'Vote Tory' or 'Vote Labour' on the tops, can the players be compelled to wear them? Where does professional obligation end, and the right to a personal opinion on a controversial issue begin?
 
Cheesy said:
That was a completely different scenario though. Back then, it had been proven in a court of law that Suarez was being found guilty of racially abusing Evra. Liverpool were going against the word of the law by dawning those t-shirts in support of their man.

Ferdinand has done this against the kick it out campaign because of his own opinion. Nothing has been proven which says the campaign is a failure at all and his actions only harm it.
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Suarez was found guilty in a court of law?

And you don't know what Rio's opinion is, you are just guessing to suit your argument.
 
Redlambs said:
Suarez was found guilty in a court of law?

And you don't know what Rio's opinion is, you are just guessing to suit your argument.
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Wasn't the case taken to court and that was where he was convicted of racial abuse? My mind might be going fuzzy on that one though and I'm probably confusing it with the Terry/Anton case.

I don't know Rio's opinion, but it seems obvious that he's not all for the campaign if he's not wearing a t-shirt. That much is clear.
 
Will Absolute said:
Have the club a right to force players to become billboards for any cause the club, or the manager, decide to support. If the club put 'Vote Tory' or 'Vote Labour' on the tops, can the players be compelled to wear them? Where does professional obligation end, and the right to a personal opinion on a controversial issue begin?
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Exactly. It's not the same as being obliged to wear a kit or a uniform. It's being forced to support a campaign being run by people you think have let you down.

Whether he's right or wrong about that, how can people think it's right to force him?
 
Cheesy said:
Wasn't the case taken to court and that was where he was convicted of racial abuse? My mind might be going fuzzy on that one though and I'm probably confusing it with the Terry/Anton case.
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I think you are confused. Neither Suarez not Terry were found guilty in a court of law. The Suarez case didn't go to court. Terry's did and he was found to be not guilty.
 
Plato said:
But why are we taking sides? In my eyes, there's simply no reason to. Rio could have done something differently and the same with Fergie. Didn't Rio tweet in support of not wearing the t-shirt? If so, he did express himself but one could argue he should have done more (talk to Fergie). Once again, we don't really know what happened behind closed doors and we're getting up in arms over very few details in a situation where one detail can change the whole outlook of the situation.

Basically, I don't think we have enough context to really say all that much. On that note, what more is there to discuss? It's a simple breakdown in communication. Quite preventable and silly it's even transpired. Arguing what either person could or should have done is futile now and beside the point. The focus should now be on nipping this "issue" in the bud and moving on towards more pressing issues.
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Why are you asking me and not everyone else that very same question? To me it's not that massive a deal. I think he was wrong. As I said I think Sir Alex will chat with Rio and we'll move on.
 
Cheesy said:
Wasn't the case taken to court and that was where he was convicted of racial abuse? My mind might be going fuzzy on that one though and I'm probably confusing it with the Terry/Anton case.

I don't know Rio's opinion, but it seems obvious that he's not all for the campaign if he's not wearing a t-shirt. That much is clear.
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No, Suarez was done by an independant commision.

And your point about the campaign being a failure is what I was getting at. You don't know Rio thinks that, what if he just feels let doswn? What if he believes that since they are funded by the Fa, the people running it won't speak out against them over the shit way he and his brother have been treated? I mean after all it's them who have really suffered when they are the victims. Now again, I'm not saying that's right or true, I'm oferring a thought on why Rio doesn't want to wear the t-shirt, and who are any of us, including Saf, to force someone into different beliefs?

Does it mean he doesn't think Racism should be kicked out? Of course not. Does he think the people running the campaign have let him or anyone else down? He obviously does.
 
Striker10 said:
Why are you asking me and not everyone else that very same question? To me it's not that massive a deal. I think he was wrong. As I said I think Sir Alex will chat with Rio and we'll move on.
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Because you responded to my post. By saying "we" that includes all of us anyway so in a sense, I'm indirectly asking you why you're taking sides.
 
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