I'm failing to understand what the significance of people thinking Yugoslavia still exists is. There are no real consequences to people not knowing Yugoslavia split up. Especially considering you could have gone for something like Iraq and Afghanistan being blamed for 9/11 despite it being quite well documented that Saudi Arabia bares most of the responsibility.
Russia Discussion
- Thread starter iSparky
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I managed to add the point that the Russians had invaded Crimea and were also putting troops and equipment into Eastern Ukraine. That might be significant in a thread about the Ukraine crisis. So where does that leave us on being open to the facts. You denied it and watch RT for the next line of nonsense which you take to heart because you are so open to recognising that the US lies. I on the other hand with my tiny closed mind managed to fathom out that there were Russian troops there and that Putin is full of shit.
Oh and I'm laughing at a post which in the same sentence says it isn't a debate and then calls it a discussion. What are you on?
You and me are having a discussion. The US and Russia are practically at war. You need to calm down a little to able to understand my posts better.
I think we both made our points so let's leave it at that.
Well you can leave it if you want but you still haven't admitted that there are Russian troops there. I think I might be too tempted to point out your error whenever you post in this thread to leave it alone. I promise to remain calm while I do so though. You could just admit it for the sake of personal growth. You would feel better about it, I could leave the matter be and the war, discussion, debate, could go on. How about it Danny, Russian's no Russians?
Great, and I'll keep bringing up Iraq's WMDs and we'll have a nice a discussion here.
How old are you? Seriously.
How old does RT say I am? At least I can admit when I'm wrong.
What kind of admission? You still watch the US media.
The yanks are now saying that the plane taken down was by separatist not connected to Russia.
It's widely accepted on here that WMD's were a load of bollocks, so you won't get much disagreement.
It's also widely accepted by most rational people that RT is a propaganda machine.
Not knowing Bill very well, I still think it's safe to say he spends very little (if any) time watching US media.
I really don't. Anything else you want to get wrong or will that be it for tonight? Oh and one last chance to save your dignity were there Russians there yes or no?
... or whatever news media he's watching because they all lie to serve their own agendas (and yes, every news channel has an agenda, but it's easier to see it when you don't agree with the channel).
No one ever said they don't. We're just telling you, quite categorically, that independent news sources having bias is significantly different to state run propaganda machines like RT which is about as legitimate as North Korean news.
So you would also advise the Arabs in the middle East to stop watching Al-Hurra news channel which is also a (US) state-funded media channel? Or would you advise them to listen to both side of the story, their local media and the US version and then decide for themselves what's more convincing?
The point is not about 10, 20, 30% "lower bias". As long as bias exists it's better to have access to all sides of the story. Trying to give the impression that all RT report is lies is simply not true.
I can't understand why he is fighting me on the point. There were and are Russians there. Everyone now knows it and RT and Danny kept on denying it. The sensible thing to do now is admit it and move on. Ducking the point over and over is foolish and though it does undermine his general line of argument about media bias to a certain degree, in that despite his supposed open mind he was in a crucial way mislead by his RT viewing, it isn't like I would go on to say he doesn't have a point in having multiple sources of news to avoid any one blind spot.
More that the US has ruled out Russians doing it from Russia or the Russian government being directly involved in it. They just affirmed that it was likely a mistake by the Separatists to shoot it down thinking it was a cargo plane. The Separatists would have needed Russian support to use the Buk system and were likely advising them or potentially operating the equipment for them after moving it into the area from Russia.
Are you sure you know what this discussion is about?
I don't know anything about Al-Hurra so wouldn't comment either way.
Lowering bias is fine and all, and I'm all for different sides of a debate having a say, and I don't think everything RT says is a lie. But they're still hampered by the fact that they're a propaganda machine. North Korean news doesn't always lie either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to pay any attention to what they say.
He has a habit of refusing to admit he's wrong. You could teleport him in the middle of a Russian army unit in the middle of Crimea and he'd still refuse to accept it thanks to having voiced an opinion he doesn't want to go back on.
Can you quote me having that "opinion"?
I don't want to go back through the thread. Do you not?
I asked you a clear question.. What's your answer?
Look above.
Except the soldiers get around in trucks with Russian license plates on them. Or did until they started taking them off in the last few days after someone asked the Russian Defense Minister about them. I don't imagine APCs have license places on them though. That's actual evidence.
That's on a GAZ-Tigr. A military vehicle produced by Russia, used by its military, and only sold to: Armenia, China, Congo, Uruguay, Guinea, Mongolia, and Nicaragua.
Will this do?
You have tried to make it about Iraq for about 20 pages. Then you started to try and make it about the details of a treaty you know nothing about. Then you made it about whether there was an invasion or even Russians there. Then you tried to make it about media bias and then about Snowden. For me this thread is about the crisis in Ukraine and Putin's attempt to seize Ukrainian territory by sending in troops and weapons across an internationally agreed (including previously by Russia) border.
This is embarrassing
UK still licensing arms exports to Russia, say MPs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424395
UK still licensing arms exports to Russia, say MPs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424395
Hopefully Europe and the US will summon the courage for full on sectoral sanctions - Gazprom, Putin himself etc.
Saw a report earlier that Germany is calling for 2018 World Cup to be moved. That would be a bit of a blow to Putin's ego.
The rebels are taking credit for shooting down to Sukhoi fighter jets near the border. Reportedly, the missiles came from within Russia an the planes were flying out of the range of shoulder-fired AA missiles. None of the Russian made manpads can reach 5200m, where the planes were supposedly flying.
So, the Russians decided not to trust them with the big guns after shooting down MH17 so have moved it back into Russia?
So, the Russians decided not to trust them with the big guns after shooting down MH17 so have moved it back into Russia?
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First of all I'm glad you re-read the whole thread trying to find a quote about something you thought I said in this thread. Next time don't say silly things based on assumptions (and repeat them like a maniac), and don't try to change the subject of the discussion while you're at it..
Second, giving examples like Iraq (or any other examples) is relevant when somebody claims that the West is to be trusted. I never said we should trust RT and take their word for anything they report, I merely said we should listen to both sides, as has been my position in this thread since the beginning.
Third, this thread is not about "Putin invading Ukraine", it's about Ukraine, so it's also (for example) about the coup that toppled the elected government in Ukraine (which was "encouraged", to say the least, by the West) which lead to all this chaos.
The fact that you only want to talk about Putin here clearly shows not only your bias but also your obsession about Russia and the conflict between them and the West. You don't even care about Ukraine, or the truth for that matter. That is the real reason why you don't want to watch RT, and why you like watching the Western media. Not because "they're 17% less biased than them".
Also...
I'm not even sure you can read now. Next time take your time before making silly statements so you don't embarrass yourself like this.
s
Are you still denying this? What is the point in discussing the Ukraine crisis if you can't mention the man who controls the foreign forces sent in to capture part of Ukrainian territory some of which the Russian parliament has now annexed?
What should I do if I think this proves your whole line about RT to be, as it is, a complete nonsense? I find you to be an odd soul Danny. You want to talk about anything other than the subject being discussed. Relevant developments which don't suit your world view, let’s not mention them, let us instead talk about a completely different event in another part of the world.
The fact you denied that there were even Russian forces in the Ukraine means your views here are undermined. You can't pretend that you never posted them. I've quoted you to save everyone the bother of going back to check. Yes you were the guy doing the comical Ali impression as various posters pointed to the Russian's in Crimea and East Ukraine, no no says comical Danny there is nothing to see here. RT has stated that no Russians are present.
Are you still denying this? What is the point in discussing the Ukraine crisis if you can't mention the man who controls the foreign forces sent in to capture part of Ukrainian territory some of which the Russian parliament has now annexed?
What should I do if I think this proves your whole line about RT to be, as it is, a complete nonsense? I find you to be an odd soul Danny. You want to talk about anything other than the subject being discussed. Relevant developments which don't suit your world view, let’s not mention them, let us instead talk about a completely different event in another part of the world.
The fact you denied that there were even Russian forces in the Ukraine means your views here are undermined. You can't pretend that you never posted them. I've quoted you to save everyone the bother of going back to check. Yes you were the guy doing the comical Ali impression as various posters pointed to the Russian's in Crimea and East Ukraine, no no says comical Danny there is nothing to see here. RT has stated that no Russians are present.
Oh dear, you're just embarrassing yourself further and further now. I have never denied the presence of Russian forces in Ukraine. Refusing to accept what the other side presents as an indisputable evidence is clearly something totally different from denying the matter altogether, and I was even comparing the matter to another issue (the snipers) where there were evidences supporting the Russian version, but some were arguing that the evidences were not enough (hence the Telegraph reference).
In fact we all knew that there were Russian forces in Crimea according to a treaty they already had in place. The discussion was only if they were helping the local rebels (outside their bases) to seize control over Crimea and make sure they can hold a vote to decide Crimea's future.
You have read the whole thread again so you should have a clear idea about my position in this from the start. I don't think what you're babbling here is out of stupidity or ignorance. I think you're exactly like the Western media which you like to watch (understandably) in changing the facts to fit your own agenda.
Also, I repeat, this thread is not about Putin. This thread is about Ukraine. I can talk about anything related to Ukraine here, regardless of your obsession about Putin. The discussion was about RT and the media coverage of the conflict, and that is what I was discussing. I understand why you kept trying to change the subject of the discussion though.
By the way, I would like to thank you for giving a clear example of the people who don't want to watch RT and prefer only to watch the Western media. I'll tell you something, if the Western media were really neutral (or even semi-neutral), you wouldn't be watching them.
What on earth are you even arguing about ?
How can a thread about the current crisis in Ukraine not mention the man who literally annexed half the country?
Mentioning him is one thing, trying to force everybody else who want to talk about Ukraine to mention him in every post is something else. Don't you think?
No.
You're beginning to derail this thread. Either get back on topic or stay out of it.
Meanwhile in other news the Ukrainian governing coalition collapses and its pm resigns. Thought I'd mention it, it seems relevant.
Thank You.