Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Great news

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63236367


Ukraine's Nato-led allies have announced deliveries of advanced air defence weapons to Kyiv, after a spate of Russian missile strikes.

The weaponry promised by the UK, Canada, France and the Netherlands includes missiles and radars. The US earlier made a similar pledge. One high-tech system from Germany is already in Ukraine.

The pledges come as Ukraine's allies from 50 countries meet at Nato headquarters in Brussels.

Kyiv hailed the summit as "historic".
 
frostbite said:
Why was it realistic for Lithuania and not for Ukraine? In my opinion, (in retrospect of course), Ukraine joining NATO in 2008 would have saved us from many deaths, destruction and economic problems today. Bush, Obama, McCain all supported it. Merkel and Sarkozy did not want it.
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Because in 2003 Lithuanian public was supporting NATO accession, while in 2008 Ukrainian public was against it. Finding primary sources from that period is a bit of a pain, since most links to press releases are dead, but this RAND testimony quotes a 75% support in Lithuania at the time and Wikipedia has a set of polls gauging the Ukrainian sentiment and it's never positive before 2014.
 
dove said:
Not that it matters much but some interesting votes nonetheless.

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They have been consistently voting against Russia in the UN, but refusing to put sanctions and just a week ago their foreign minister signed a deal with Lavrov. Essentially opposing Russia rhetorically but keeping the good relations with them in things that matter (UN voting does not matter).
 
buchansleftleg said:
If they are just going with big straight line trenches then that is suicidal. That's a tactic that was abandoned early in WW1. Just drop some Fuel Air explosive and watch it roll down the line.
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Yep.

"Napalm is legal to use on the battlefield under international law. Its use against "concentrations of civilians" is a war crime."
 
buchansleftleg said:
If they are just going with big straight line trenches then that is suicidal. That's a tactic that was abandoned early in WW1. Just drop some Fuel Air explosive and watch it roll down the line.
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If they want to sit in those trenches you would be right. But to me it looks more like they do this to block the way, especially for fast and light vehicles. Ukrainian special forces use those to get behind the Russian lines and wreak havoc there, making them stop and a point where the Russians can detect them and open fire is actually the right thing to do.
 
stefan92 said:
If they want to sit in those trenches you would be right. But to me it looks more like they do this to block the way, especially for fast and light vehicles. Ukrainian special forces use those to get behind the Russian lines and wreak havoc there, making them stop and a point where the Russians can detect them and open fire is actually the right thing to do.
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In the first one I think there’s a zig zag trench in the top left. That large ditch is 100% to stop vehicles and concentrate them on any crossings they build. Russia seem a woeful army but they aren’t completely insane to build long, wide and straight open trenches.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
Can someone explain to me how those sick pro-Kremlin fecks dare to show their faces when almost all of Europe are hating their guts at the moment?
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I can’t quite make out who these people are - whether actual Russians or old Czechs who are nostalgic of the iron curtain days.
 
frostbite said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/12/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war.html

Ukraine Offensive Will Push Through Winter, U.S. Defense Chief Says

The “deliberate cruelty” of Russia’s latest bombardment has made the West more determined to help Ukraine, Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III said.
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Hopefully the Ukrainians make enough progress before the snow becomes a factor, where they would then be well positioned to flush the remaining Russians out of the south given their lack of logistical support.
 
Missile strike in Belgorod. There were reports/videos a few days ago of russian air defence striking their own rockets fired towards Ukraine, possibly the same thing happened again just now the debris actually landed inside the city. Or it just failed to launch properly.


 
Raoul said:
Hopefully the Ukrainians make enough progress before the snow becomes a factor, where they would then be well positioned to flush the remaining Russians out of the south given their lack of logistical support.
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Frozen grounds are better for movement than mud... as long as it's not too much snow in the way, the winter actually makes movement easier in some regions
 
stefan92 said:
Frozen grounds are better for movement than mud... as long as it's not too much snow in the way, the winter actually makes movement easier in some regions
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Except the Russians don’t have the moral or infrastructure to be successful in winter, especially with Ukrainians getting increasingly sophisticated weapons in the present.
 
Kind of expecting Russia to have retreated from the majority of its gains earlier in the war and effectively resort to attacking urban areas via air in the next few months. They'll throw bodies at defending their frontline whilst they can, but it's hard to see them making gains/improving morale/combat quality anytime soon.
 
Raoul said:
Except the Russians don’t have the moral or infrastructure to be successful in winter, especially with Ukrainians getting increasingly sophisticated weapons in the present.
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Meanwhile, I hope that Ukrainian forces are well supplied of all the personnel, vehicle, and equipment related supplies to be as effective as possible in winter fighting. That part shouldn't be hard to anticipate (winter happens every year), and shouldn't even be expensive compared to some of the more advanced systems/ammunition they're being supplied with.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jaysus, lads.

Sometimes I think this thread gives an interesting insight into the geopolitical complexities of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

More often it's a queasy mix of war gaming and military fantasists.
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That likely because the thread is a reflection of the narratives coming out of Twitter.
 
Two near misses. Whoever is driving is extremely luckily to be alive.

 
MTF said:
Meanwhile, I hope that Ukrainian forces are well supplied of all the personnel, vehicle, and equipment related supplies to be as effective as possible in winter fighting. That part shouldn't be hard to anticipate (winter happens every year), and shouldn't even be expensive compared to some of the more advanced systems/ammunition they're being supplied with.
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Ye like Canada which is one of the most prepared nations in terms of winter warfare just gave them 500k winter uniforms on top of everything else.

 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jaysus, lads.

Sometimes I think this thread gives an interesting insight into the geopolitical complexities of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

More often it's a queasy mix of war gaming and military fantasists.
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Anything in particular in the posts before that comment bother you? Saying you can use fuel bombs on trenches?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Jaysus, lads.

Sometimes I think this thread gives an interesting insight into the geopolitical complexities of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

More often it's a queasy mix of war gaming and military fantasists.
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I don’t comment on military matters as I know nothing about that subject but there are two interesting factors about this war (at least from a Western perspective) which provoke such interest and heated comment:

1. It’s probably the first war fought amidst wall to wall social media coverage (with Ukraine particularly adept at using it to their advanatage).

2. It’s the first war for a long, long time which is not enshrouded in moral ambiguity - there is a clear good and bad side.
 
MoskvaRed said:
I don’t comment on military matters as I know nothing about that subject but there are two interesting factors about this war (at least from a Western perspective) which provoke such interest and heated comment:

1. It’s probably the first war fought amidst wall to wall social media coverage (with Ukraine particularly adept at using it to their advanatage).

2. It’s the first war for a long, long time which is not enshrouded in moral ambiguity - there is a clear good and bad side.
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Ah yeah. I do understand the interest in the war. It’s more the knowledge of - and apparent fascination with - the best way to kill people that I find a bit icky. I feel the same when anyone waxes lyrical about various different guns.
 
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