Russia's at it again
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
What do you mean more likely? They actually shouted him down for suggesting due process, thats what actually happened
Abramovich by all accounts still has strong relations with Putin, I believe. Plenty will be against him but a lot of Russian oligarchs will remain on his side and we need to hit them where it hurts if we want Putin not to be pulling shite like this on a regular basis.
They shouted him down most of the time.
Wonder if Corbyn will appear on RT to bleat about how terrible the UK is.
Before or after he defects?
So do countless of Russians literally every day. I've got no love lost for Putin who is responsible for many crimes but I can't wrap my head around why he would do this. He isn't some mentalist as well, he is cold-blooded and precise, he's not some stereotypical rash tyrant.
Do you think someone else was responsible?
They won't be able to fit him on there with the number of Tory MPs booked to appear.
Suprised Hillary Ben hasn't already made an empassioned speech why we should bomb Moscow and called Corbyn a coward for not personally shooting Putin.
Very ugly side of our country how quick they are to turn to aggression because its popular to do so.
Very ugly side of our country how quick they are to turn to aggression because its popular to do so.
No idea, really — but it's absolutely possible. There's just no point of doing it, at least I can't see Putin's motivation here at all. Especially poisoning him with the unique substance that is closely associated with Russia — wouldn't, say, cyanide, or thousands (hundreds of thousands) other poisons would be less traceable?
Putin is many things. Murderer too — even if just for Ukraine/Syria. But he isn't unreasonable, he only does things that profit him
It's a messy job gone wrong for sure. They would have expected him to simply die quietly as many others have.
The government made it so. They gave an ultimatum to an act of aggression and the only response to that would have to have been in kind. They would never be able to give a proportionate measured response so that is why their public ultimatum was ill thought and ended up backfiring because expelling a bunch of FSB pen pushers isn't the strong response that this country needs to be giving.
Isn't it all about chaos? Not knowing who to believe be that media, governments, whomever. Losing faith in the institutions of power. A feeling of helplessness leading to disassociation from politics allowing the decent people in power to be turned over by the moneyed self-interested cnuts.
Brexit already ensured that. This is just semantics.
Still doesn't explain why would you use a poison that's as unique as a signature while there are countless ways to do is without any fuss.
So what exactly is this cnut Putin up to? Is he trying to start a war or what?
Insightful.
Would you ever consider him to be vengeful? Is this a possibility? To make an example out of a traitor.
Isn’t that the point? To send a blatant message to the UK that Russia can and will do what it wants because it feels the UK is too weak to muster any effective response?
Personally think this response is weak as feck. But then again, it's Theresa May.
Putin probably just smirked when he read her 'plan'.
That said, sounds like Corbyn is still a clueless twat as always so she still looks somewhat better (amazingly).
Putin probably just smirked when he read her 'plan'.
That said, sounds like Corbyn is still a clueless twat as always so she still looks somewhat better (amazingly).
I just imagined you coming up with a deadlier plan but the tone of it was very Austin Powers.
Not in my opinion. He was accused and imprisoned for being a spy/traitor in Russia — and later he was given to UK as a part of the prisoner's exchange. If Putin wanted him dead, he would've died of "natural causes" much sooner.
Killing him in the foreign country as a sign of strength? It doesn't make sense, considering the risks he takes in international relations. He doesn't have any relevant strategic information and he isn't a well-known figure, his death (more so — the lack of it) doesn't give him anything at all — and I'm pretty sure that every spy, doesn't matter which country he works for, knows the personal risks that he takes even without Skripnik dying.
As I said earlier, I'm not doubting Putin's capability of killing, but rather the lack of motivation for him to do so. If, say, Kadyrov (God forbid) was the president, it would've made perfect sense, while Putin? Nah.
The most obvious answer is double bluff.
Also Putin's general line is creating a siege mentality domestically using international pressure on Russia. So this incident helps to further increase these things. While from a pure economic standpoint this situation might have a drawback for Russia, from a political point of view this little 'war' with UK might have positive effect. For example increase turnout in coming election.
It could also bee an effective method of trying to break-up the connection wealthy russians have with UK. So you need some kind of ambiguous russian indicator. And this poison fits the bill perfectly, it's russian, but since it could have been stolen, or other Soviet republics have access to it it also give you a deniability.
A provocation for a sake of a provocation — just to test May's reaction? It's like using an ace of spades to eliminate a much weaker card. But maybe, who knows what the man thinks, really — I would've called anyone crazy if they were to say that Putin would take Crimea from Ukraine.
It would have supposedly been a quick unexplained death, probably in a solitary place like at home with an agent that your bog standard coroner will likely not pick up on. If they re-investigate all the other suspicious deaths they might find similar agents.
I don't think they would deliberately do it to send the UK a message. We have no standing on any stage anymore.
But those 23 are not pen pushers are they....they are ones that have been identified as spies by our intelligence agencies.
Sorry Comrade.
Putin will keep doing this whenever and wherever he pleases since no one is able to stop him. If the US had a proper President then he/she could cooperate with the UK, France, and others do take some action that would actually sting - as in kick Russia out of the SWFT banking system and freeze all Putin's personal assets and those of any oligrach who supports him. That would squeeze his neck a bit in the only language he understands - coercion.
If you'd read what i have written one more time, you'll get that this type of "hitting" them is exactly what Putin would have wanted. Since it would force some of russian elite to go back, to bring money back, others no to go at all and so on.
And what accounts would those be?
I do know what i am talking about. Around 10 years ago Abramovich had quite o lot of russian projects, football, culture and otherwise. He had a lot of assets. In the last 6 years he sold most of that and closed down all of his projects. Right now Abramovich is almost completely excluded in russian affairs, he also have only leftover russian assets. Essentially there is very little that ties him to Russia right now. Why is that i don't know. He may have good personal relationship with Putin still, i have no idea where they are now or where they've been for that matter. But fo some reason he chose to cut most of his ties with Russia.
Perhaps if they had just got in their car to go home they would have crashed and no-one would have been any the wiser. Certainly wouldn’t have tested for this agent. As it was they sat on a park bench...
I don’t think he is crazy either but this standoff helps him circle the wagons at home (it’s useful to keep up tensions at election time) without risking really adverse consequences (the UK is relatively isolated from its partners in Brussels and Washington). As to why the UK in particular, I think he finds them an irritant who talk too much without having the muscle to back it up. The alternative is that this was an independent revenge operation by someone in the security forces but, if that were the case, I don’t know why they would have chosen such an elaborate and identifiable method which caused such collateral harm.
Corbyn's problem is that a number of his advisers, including Sheamus Milne, are pro-Russia/Putin. There was an attempted murder or a former Russian spy using a nerve agent intelligence services say could only have been produced in Russia. To try and pretend there's some kind of significant ambiguity here is absurd. The whole "I condemn all attempted murders" doesn't really cut it either, quite frankly. You can't be selectively vague in your condemnations and hold a high profile office as he does, and expect people not to notice.
Opposition to the Iraq war wasn't presented as "opposition to all wars" - happy to be specific then. When it comes to Russian, the IRA - vague "all bad stuff is bad" cop outs. I'm sorry but it's noticeable.
Opposition to the Iraq war wasn't presented as "opposition to all wars" - happy to be specific then. When it comes to Russian, the IRA - vague "all bad stuff is bad" cop outs. I'm sorry but it's noticeable.
I was wondering about something similar to your last point. There was another assassination that seemed to make little sense, some journalist or opposition leader (which doesn’t really narrow it down, I know). But some mooted the idea it was a hardliner acting without explicit directive from Putin.
The idea being they had their own agenda or perhaps were hoping to curry favor. But this was when oil prices were much lower, and the dynamics among the oligarchs and other strongmen like the Chechen guy who famously lost his cat may have changed significantly.
That would be one of the most stupid moves one can make. It's a huge source of intelligence. Any move to block Russia from it would be basically vetoed by CIA and DoD. That should be it, but there are other considerations as well.
Also think this. Don't think it was ever planned to be this obvious. How often is the explanation for an unusual event just that something went wrong?
And once the nerve agent is discovered is when I personally move to thinking overwhelmingly likely a govt job, not mafia or something else. I can't explain why Putin would want to do it, but the method just screams out govt. If he'd been shot I'd be much less confident.
Are you thinking of the murder of Boris Nemtsov? Rumours that Kadyrov was behind it but who knows. But that was a more classic hit - gunshots (and on Russian soil). If the Salisbury attack were solely about killing a traitor (either for revenge or to curry favour), I would expect a less baroque method than spraying nerve gas on flowers.
LOL. The CIA and DOD answer to the President, so if he is for the policy then they will comply. It would send the Russian banking system into the dark ages.
There is nothing the UK can do. Implying May or Corbyn are handling this badly means you somehow think there is a option for the UK to do something, when there clearest isn't one.