You didn't hear it at all.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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You didn't hear it at all.
Bloody hell, the premature over-hyping knows no bounds on here.
And yet, he's an Everton fan. Thankfully he's one who is quite clearly able to form an opinion using his eyes, rather than one who analyses everything to death and yet still can't form his own opinion. Perhaps you've not seen enough of Kagawa. He's quite good you see.
I know, that player of the year award was just ridiculous
He was the best player in Germany last season. He's been crucial to the German champion's back to back league title wins. The guy is quality.
Or maybe you haven't seen him for Dortmund. It's not premature if you've seen him play in arguably one of the most competitive leagues in the world, for the title winning team. Included in that league are the CL runners up which they managed to beat in the league twice and also the domestic cup final which Kagawa played a key part in. But yeah, premature to say he's a quality player.
I've seen very little of Kawaga, and nor am I dismissing him or running him down in any way.
But for you to be in no doubt that he's in the same class as Bale and thus (presumably) will be similarly successful in the Prem .... strikes me as rather foolish.
You might have wanted to wait and look a while before jumping. But I guess we'll see soon enough if the hype is justified.
He probably considers Bale one of the best players in the world.
So by your logic, everyone must play in the same league so we can compare them to each other in quality. Nobody was talking about the Premier League, we were talking about them purely as players.
You are a retard.
There's a difference between saying he's a quality player and claiming that he's in the same class as Bale.
Alright, pretty evident you dont rate the Bundesliga then. They just won the league and the cup there beating Bayern Munich. Victories Kagawa played a key part in.
He's certainly one of the best players in the world in his position.
Well obviously, because Gareth Bale is far from a quality player.
Dont know what you mean there. Bale is higher up the ladder in his position simply because of the dearth of proper left footed wingers. He's hardly anything special.
You're making that Messi reference make sense. He's the same age as Bale, he's got a considerably healthier trophy cabinet and is very highly rated worldwide, probably as much so as Bale. But because he hasn't done it in the Premier League, you're saying he's not comparable? That's a bit mental.
I think Bale has a bit to prove yet in terms of consistency...
I reckon he will prove it mind...with flying colours.
Look, there have been plenty of players who have looked good in other leagues, then not been that great in the Prem.
Why? Because the style of football is different here, and because overall the Prem is a stronger league than most, including the Bundesliga.
What's so wrong with waiting to see how the lad gets on before weighing in with the hype?
Bale has hardly been brilliant in the Prem.
Undoubtedly has talent but doesn't really score or assist many. It took him ages to translate his early promise into any kind of form as well.
The year he won the POTY award was a joke. It came almost entirely off the back of his European exploits which were fresh in everyone's mind due to the time of the voting.
Bale hasn't proved himself in the Bundesliga.
That makes no sense. Bale is a quality player. Like tons of quality players out there including Kagawa. He definitely isnt in the very highest bracket of footballers or even the one after it (the one after the top 2).
You could ask every football manager in the world who'd they rather have - Bale or Kawaga - and 99.99% of them would say Bale. I can say that with confidence, even having not seen much of Kawaga play.
If you believe otherwise, then it's you who is the retard.
Voted for by the players is it not? Must be something in it.
That second point opens up a can of worms. Not sure stats always tell the full story. Mind you, according to wikipedia he's got 21 in 110 games for spurs compared to Valencia's 10 in 71 games for United (and only six in a fair few for Wigan).
Good player Bale. Wouldn't mind him at United - on the left with nani/Valencia on the right.
I'll call bullshit on that.
Kagawa is the same age, has similar CL experience, has been playing in a better team, has title-winning experience, scores more and assists more.
It's not 99.99% clearcut.
Yes, but that says more about people not believing the Bale-hype than any extreme Kagawa-hype. Not that that'll make it any less foolish in your view, but it's worth pointing out. In most people's minds, saying Kagawa's in the same class as Bale is not saying he's one of the best in the world (in his position or otherwise), it's just them saying he's a quality player. I think Allen's just a good player. A good signing no doubt, and even for £15m I wouldn't be complaining (much more justified than the Henderson fee, as far as I'm concerned), but in comparison to Kagawa I'd be a bit disappointed. I don't think it shows how Allen was particularly overpriced though - it's a hefty fee but a good long-term investment - it just further highlights that Kagawa was indeed a 'value' signing.
That's why I've never got the whole 'value' complaint - if Sir Alex is just waiting it out to find players like Shinji for a reasonable fee, we should be happy, surely.
Its hardly "hype" to say that he's better than Allen in whatever league you may put them in. No one's saying he'l be the next iniesta, that'd be hype. Saying he'd be better than Allen in the premiership is just common sense. It could go wrong as you said but has a much much higher chance of going right.
This I agree with - because ini my experience when a player is saddled with expectation and doesn't set the world alight its only a small step from unneccessary criticism - especially on the internet.
Kagawa looks a very tidy player - I think he should be allowed to settle in before any judgment is passed on him.
Of course there's something in it.
I just think the vote was heavily influenced by other factors as it was held when his exploits in the CL were fresh in everyone's minds.
I'm also happy to admit that Giggs winning it was influenced by other factors.
You said it was "a joke".
It seems those in football, being players who play against him and managers/coaches still in the game deemed him worthy so that's good enough for me. I accept that they will, in general, know more than I do.
To be fair Giggs earned his after a very long and succesful career - but on that basis it would appear that those who cvoted genuinely thought Bale deserved it for whatever reason, rather than it being a "nod" for services to the game.
Carrick in the first game and Valencia yesterday.
I've never taken these player of the year awards seriously. Players must be asked to name 3 players sometime during a week. I doubt they care enough to think about who's been the best over the year, they'd just vote for those that come first to their mind. Be it based on few performances vs them, big names or recent good play leading to a higher stock during the voting process..
First off its Kagawa. Not Kawaga.
Second, you are insane if you think 99% of managers would take Bale over Kagawa. The last two seasons Kagawa has outscored Bale and out assisted Bale, despite missing half a season. He's won the domestic title twice, scored in and won a cup final against Bayern Munich. Bale tore up an Inter team managed by Rafa Benitez, and can run quite fast. I'm not saying Bale isn't a very good player, nor that managers wouldn't choose him. But to claim they all would is ridiculous.
Third, how the feck can you say that in confidence having not seen him play? "I am completely ignorant on this matter, but claim I can say things with 99.99% certainty. Anyone who disagrees is a retard".
So when we're watching him at Dortmund, what're we supposed to do? Think, yeah, he's playing well, but how would he really do in the Premier League? Judgement's already been passed on him because quite a lot of people watch the Bundesliga, and in the Bundesliga Dortmund have been quite easily the best team to watch in Kagawa's two years there. And it takes very little time to see Kagawa's a quality player, because he's great technically and very intelligent. It's very easy to see these things and you can't help but judge every player, without even thinking, in these two areas. He obviously impresses enough in those areas for people to be confident enough that'll make him a big success because, in the majority of cases, these things will take players far in any league.
I'm not saying Bale's not a good player but he didn't deserve that award.
I can see why people voted for him, with those CL performances fresh in their mind, but the POTY award is for the Premier League, where Bale hasn't really performed to a brilliant level, especially not that season.
Which was the point.
Give Kagawa a year under a similar spotlight to that of Bale's, IE the Premier League. We'll talk then.
Next season, I believe Kagawa will prove to be one of the best players in the league. He's still very young but is already a really classy player, and will only get better. Especially playing in a team like ours where I think he will thrive in. He doesn't have the pressure of a big signing fee which we've seen certain players hindered by it, like Berbatov probably was by his 30m fee.
Sir Alex did brilliantly to get him for so cheap, we were quite lucky that his contract was expiring as well because I have no doubt that if he had a few more years on his contract than he would have gone for around 25m probably.
Sir Alex did brilliantly to get him for so cheap, we were quite lucky that his contract was expiring as well because I have no doubt that if he had a few more years on his contract than he would have gone for around 25m probably.
If that was his every touch in that game, looked like he barely put a foot wrong. Looks completely assured with the ball at his feet and has guile and vision that we lacked last season, promising signs for that aspect. Here is hoping he will have a great start to his career with us.
Lol.
If only there someway of sample polling the managers of the world so we can once and for all prove Glaston's retardedness.
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