The Independent Group for Change | Have decided to disband after ten months

What is Labour's unifying and credible alternative plan to what the Conservatives are offering?
 
I don't get your logic, Labour aren't backing a second referendum, so the only reason to vote for them would be if they're offering a better and more trustworthy vision of the country than this joke of a Tory party. Considering just two weeks ago Labour were 7 points behind in the polls, it seems pretty clear they're not doing that.
You cited polling data as proof Corbyn doesn't have a credible plan on Brexit. Therefore the party in the lead does, by your own logic.
 
What is Labour's unifying and credible alternative plan to what the Conservatives are offering?
There isn't one. Never has been. Jeremy Corbyn could write a plan down on a piece of paper, hand it to Theresa May and he'd still vote against it if she put it to the house.
 
I don't get your logic, Labour aren't backing a second referendum, so the only reason to vote for them would be if they're offering a better and more trustworthy vision of the country than this joke of a Tory party. Considering just two weeks ago Labour were 7 points behind in the polls, it seems pretty clear they're not doing that.
A poll a few days go had them level with the tories on 37.

For the millionth time NOTHING HAS CHANGED SINCE THE ELECTION.
 
So, by this logic, the country believes the Tories are actually doing a great job with Brexit and nobody wants a second referendum?
We know Corbyn and McDonnell don't want one. At the Labour conference it was only after days of demonstrations for a second referendum they grudgingly included 'we won't rule one out' in order to get the final composite through.
 
A poll a few days go had them level with the tories on 37.

For the millionth time NOTHING HAS CHANGED SINCE THE ELECTION.

The point is that by now (mid-term) it should have done. In truth the Labour party can bask in the glory of being even worse than the worst Tory government in history.

Couldn't kill a dead ant.
 
Im happy to see politicians moving towards the centre ground, but this just seems like too few to make any difference.
 
We know Corbyn and McDonnell don't want one. At the Labour conference it was only after days of demonstrations for a second referendum they grudgingly included 'we won't rule one out' in order to get the final composite through.
So when the PV campaigners pulled their vote the other week, because it doesn't have the numbers, that was them demonstrating they don't want one either?
 
A poll a few days go had them level with the tories on 37.

For the millionth time NOTHING HAS CHANGED SINCE THE ELECTION.

On Feb 11th, YouGov released a poll with over 40,000 recipients, which had the following results:

CON 39%, LAB 34%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 5%

They predicted seats in a theoretical election as:

Conservatives 321
Labour 250
Liberal Democrats 16
SNP 39

That would be a 4 seat gain for the Tories over 2017. So you're right basically, there would be very little chance since the election. A government who suffered the largest defeat in modern parliamentary history, who are careering towards crashing out of Europe with no safety mechanism, who are undergoing their own civil war and who have spent 8 years implementing deeply unpopular and divisive policies, are still more popular than Jeremy Corbyn's Labour.

Erm, go Jeremy?
 
What utter shites. They should have done this ages ago when they lost the second leadership election of Corbyn. At least by now we'd have an alternative political party setup. Right now when the country needs the Tories to fall, these guys have decided to tear strips off labour.

Better late than never? I'm not sure.
 
Im happy to see politicians moving towards the centre ground, but this just seems like too few to make any difference.
Yep me too. I think, in truth, that that is where most of this country is. It is only issues like Brexit that make it seem like everyone is at the extremes.
 
You cited polling data as proof Corbyn doesn't have a credible plan on Brexit. Therefore the party in the lead does, by your own logic.

Nope. People vote on many issues, Brexit is just one area where Labour have an opening to appeal to a vast number of voters who currently have no representation. Corbyn's current Brexit position doesn't appeal to either Leave OR Remain voters, largely because its a load of completely bollocks.
 
The ongoing and everlasting fracturing of the left.

Even within the division of the Tory party they know what’s good for them
 
Excellent news. I had been a member of the Labour party; no longer and always voted for and supported Labour.

No longer. The party I have supported has changed out of all recognition and for the worse.

Like these 7 MPS Labour it is not a party I can believe in or vote for.

Unfortunately I don't think anything will change for Labour and I hope that they will all go down the drain into the sewers where they belong.
 
I think this is all about another attempt to force Jeremy out. They will not force a by election and will not join the Lib Dems
 
What utter shites. They should have done this ages ago when they lost the second leadership election of Corbyn. At least by now we'd have an alternative political party setup. Right now when the country needs the Tories to fall, these guys have decided to tear strips off labour.

Better late than never? I'm not sure.
You could argue that they tried to change Labour from within first.
 
Nope. People vote on many issues, Brexit is just one area where Labour have an opening to appeal to a vast number of voters who currently have no representation. Corbyn's current Brexit position doesn't appeal to either Leave OR Remain voters, largely because its a load of completely bollocks.
So this vast number of voters are so key that Corbyn should adopt People's Vote, but care so little about Brexit as an issue that they refuse to back the Lib Dems?

Either? So you agree, Corbyn and McDonnell do not want a Peoples Vote?
Your logic is that not pushing for a People's Vote beyond grudgingly saying a few words, means they don't want one. These campaigners tell everyone how they want one, but bottle putting forward something that could actually get one. So, they don't actually want it either, surely?
 
On Feb 11th, YouGov released a poll with over 40,000 recipients, which had the following results:

CON 39%, LAB 34%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 5%

They predicted seats in a theoretical election as:

Conservatives 321
Labour 250
Liberal Democrats 16
SNP 39

That would be a 4 seat gain for the Tories over 2017. So you're right basically, there would be very little chance since the election. A government who suffered the largest defeat in modern parliamentary history, who are careering towards crashing out of Europe with no safety mechanism, who are undergoing their own civil war and who have spent 8 years implementing deeply unpopular and divisive policies, are still more popular than Jeremy Corbyn's Labour.

Erm, go Jeremy?



Overall both parties have around 40% of the vote. You can right fully moan about labour not be x points if you want but using
 
The irony of this group using the hashtag changepolitics when they're just a continuing the exact same policies / politics the UK has had since 1992.

Not sure this really changes anything for the moment. They're pro EU and going to vote with Labour on nearly everything anyway, most importantly in the inevitable votes of confidence in the government that will occur in the next 6 weeks.

If there is then an election later in the year could be quite interesting though.
 
So this vast number of voters are so key that Corbyn should adopt People's Vote, but care so little about Brexit as an issue that they refuse to back the Lib Dems?

It's just a guess on my part, but I think you'd have seen a lot more Lib Dem MP's last time if Corbyn had been honest for a change and actually said he wouldn't support a second referendum no matter what.
 
On Feb 11th, YouGov released a poll with over 40,000 recipients, which had the following results:

CON 39%, LAB 34%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 5%

They predicted seats in a theoretical election as:

Conservatives 321
Labour 250
Liberal Democrats 16
SNP 39

That would be a 4 seat gain for the Tories over 2017. So you're right basically, there would be very little chance since the election. A government who suffered the largest defeat in modern parliamentary history, who are careering towards crashing out of Europe with no safety mechanism, who are undergoing their own civil war and who have spent 8 years implementing deeply unpopular and divisive policies, are still more popular than Jeremy Corbyn's Labour.

Erm, go Jeremy?
Will be interesting to see poling based on both the brexit party and this independent group putting up candidates on a national basis
 
Will be interesting to see poling based on both the brexit party and this independent group putting up candidates on a national basis
Who needs polling? They can demonstrate it by winning the byelections they'll be running.

I mean, they wouldn't turn down a chance to prove their resignations were right by winning their seat without the Labour banner and prove to any other MPs thinking of leaving either Labour or the Tories that they can do so without fear of losing their seat, would they?
 
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Will be interesting to see poling based on both the brexit party and this independent group putting up candidates on a national basis

The Opinium poll over the weekend pre-empted the announcement a bit:

Two-fifths (40%) think a new political party would be the best way for people like them to be represented, while 59% would consider voting for a new centre-ground party.


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ulls-level-with-tories-in-latest-opinion-poll

Although it's worth putting them into the context of:

Almost half (41%) think that both Labour and the Conservatives have become extreme, with 39% of Tory voters and 37% of Labour voters agreeing with this. A similar number (42%) think neither party stands for anything.

Which hardly inspire confidence in the electorate.
 
If they had any decency, they would resign as MPs and force by-elections.

I agree and at the same time, perhaps labour could rescind their policy on 'all women' lists and offer up candidates on merit rather than their gender
 
Not sure about the branding of the new party

Politically it's very similar to UKIP and independent Mps, while it also sounds like a company who could own the Independent paper

Potential for conflation. I wonder if that was their intent?
 
Nope. People vote on many issues, Brexit is just one area where Labour have an opening to appeal to a vast number of voters who currently have no representation. Corbyn's current Brexit position doesn't appeal to either Leave OR Remain voters, largely because its a load of completely bollocks.

Its the one area you are concerned with and you see all British politics through that prism.
 
Stupid question but does this trigger a by-election or can the continue as MPs until the next GE?