The Independent Group for Change | Have decided to disband after ten months

Cheesy said:
The broad church approach only works though when you're already a big party. Hoey's an outlier because she's one of about three or four MP's in the Labour Party (at most) who hold her views, and even then she's regarded as being the most extreme voice. It's much more difficult for Soubry to be an outlier when she's something like nearly 10% of the party, in terms of MP's. Especially when she's got other Tories by her side.
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Of course.

But it’s not a party yet, this is essentially just a protest movement (in both directions) so far. If this movement becomes a party, then it will (obviously) need to conclude on a joined-up economic policy. At that point, if Soubry remains a prominent player, it will become apparent if her views have changed, or if the movement is embracing austerity. The latter seems unlikely to me, so I think either she won’t remain a serious part of any new centrist party, or her thinking will ‘evolve’ and reflect a different position. We’ll have to wait and see what happens.
 
ThierryHenry said:
Of course.

But it’s not a party yet, this is essentially just a protest movement (in both directions) so far. If this movement becomes a party, then it will (obviously) need to conclude on a joined-up economic policy. At that point, if Soubry remains a prominent player, it will become apparent if her views have changed, or if the movement is embracing austerity. The latter seems unlikely to me, so I think either she won’t remain a serious part of any new centrist party, or her thinking will ‘evolve’ and reflect a different position. We’ll have to wait and see what happens.
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Or we'll get a party that tacitly embraces right-wing economics while adopting a more cuddly socially liberal agenda at a surface level. In essence...the Lib Dems.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Shock horror someone wants to base policy on evidence not blind ideology! Ya boo hiss! Down with them!

Backing May though :(
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Obviously politics is ideological. Ideally a good politician should be open to having their mind changed by evidence, and should be willing to alter policy proposals accordingly, but there's always going to be an ideological aspect to politics by its very nature. If researched evidence shows, for example, that austerity hypothetically improved the UK's economic performance, but also resulted in increased homelessness and poverty, then you're going to either construe austerity as having been a positive or negative force depending on your ideological outlook.
 
The Independent Group go for a cheeky Nando's
 
Will be interesting to see how this fluctuates with second referendum shenanigans

 
Why aren't the SNP on that poll? If we're polling hypotheticals, why only add the Goof Troop?

You've got to love the British media though. Spend a week parroting their excuse that they don't have policies on anything because they're not a party, then decide their non-policy policy on Brexit has changed Labour's minds. Sublime stuff.
 
They'll be under "other", along with UKIP, Greens and so on.
 
Considering how bland TIG's launch has been so far, and considering the lack of firepower they've got behind them, those numbers should be genuinely concerning for Labour. TIG are nowhere near being able to field actual candidates yet, sure, but if all it's taking to decimate Labour's numbers is the literal creation of another party then there's obviously a major problem.

Similarly it also arguably obliterates the argument that until now the party have made a sensible decision by now going against Brexit on the basis of the Lib Dems - the anti-Brexit party - polling poorly. If the above numbers are true (and we should obviously be sceptical as to whether they are at this stage when things will fluctuate a lot) then it shows that the Lib Dems aren't polling well because their brand is terminally toxic at this point, not because of their stance on Brexit.
 
Proves how soft labours poll numbers have always been. The labour leadership and their acolytes have hidden behind ok ish poll numbers vs the tories but this properly exposes them.
 
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Cheesy said:
Similarly it also arguably obliterates the argument that until now the party have made a sensible decision by now going against Brexit on the basis of the Lib Dems - the anti-Brexit party - polling poorly. If the above numbers are true (and we should obviously be sceptical as to whether they are at this stage when things will fluctuate a lot) then it shows that the Lib Dems aren't polling well because their brand is terminally toxic at this point, not because of their stance on Brexit.
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Think that's all spot on. I always felt like Labour got the wrong takeaway from the last election. It was seen as validation for Corbyn and his policies, with the increase in polling during the election being due to people finally hearing what he had to offer. To me though the entire election felt like a kind of echo of the referendum. The Leave vote rallied around the Tories, and when it looked like May would get a 3 figure majority and be able to ram home any version of Brexit she wanted, the Remain vote rallied then around Labour as the only show in town able to block her. They didnt go to the Lib Dems because, as you say, the brand was toxic. If this were true, Labour was always on thin ice taking the Remain vote for granted and pushing a pro-Brexit stance. It only took a more viable vehicle than the Lib Dems to get those votes back off Labour.

So, Labour were always susceptible to being outflanked by a pro-Remain party imo. Labour's actions in the last 24 hours may stem the flow, hard to say right now. Labour will never have to go through with their promise of a second referendum, since it won't get through the House, so they can hold up their hands and say they tried. That might be enough. The problem will come if the independent group starts to make headway through banging a pro-EU drum, perhaps by offering to rejoin the single market without a referendum as a first step. That will put pressure on Labour to commit to a pro-EU position in future manifestos.
 
EwanI Ted said:
Labour will never have to go through with their promise of a second referendum, since it won't get through the House, so they can hold up their hands and say they tried. That might be enough. The problem will come if the independent group starts to make headway through banging a pro-EU drum, perhaps by offering to rejoin the single market without a referendum as a first step. That will put pressure on Labour to commit to a pro-EU position in future manifestos.
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I think Remainers are so angry that that kind of cynicism won't get by.

Nor am I sure that a second ref won't get through the house. The Fear hasn't really hit home yet. If/when it does I can see a lot of politicians supporting it to get themselves off the hook.

Re your second point. Remain isn't necessarily a pro EU position so not sure about that.
 
That's England not Britain you weird fecks
 


Chuka Umunna appears to have turned to one of the Tories' biggest donors to fund his office since leaving the Labour Party to lead The Independent Group of MPs
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He should take a step further and cross the house, He'll feel more at home there.
 
Applying to be a political party
"The Independent Group (TIG) has applied to be a political party, it has been confirmed.

TIG say it is in case they need to put forward candidates for the European elections in May should there be a delay in Brexit.

They will call themselves Change UK.

Former Tory MP Heidi Allen will be the interim leader and former Labour MP Chuka Umunna will be the lead spokesman."

Shit name?
 
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