The Spurs thread

[SirHenryPercy]

Point taken. Thanks for the info nevertheless. This should be more let be known more among united rank and no more happy for Spurs to win the league, I guess.

Feck Spurs for the 60s rivalry. Happy you lost the league.

Excuse me. Punt Intended


The village club term is used in hypothetical sense if you read the whole thing I wrote. Here is a simpler version: Leeds is United fierce rival forever.

I don't know where you're from but if you follow English football so closely you should maybe learn about its history because to true English football fans it matters.

Every club in England has a story and every club is important. You might have chosen in the late 90's to support a team that was winning the PL every year or at worse every other year and the CL. Most of us don't have that luxury, most of us are born into our football clubs, it's a family thing and if not usually it's dictated by location. Without the bottom, middle and clubs struggling to get to the top like my own there is nobody for the clubs with all the glory to play against.

There are teams who have nothing against each other, there are rivalries and there are fierce rivalries but true English football fans have empathy as well.

A classic example from only last month when my own team Spurs played away to Villa, a club who at times we've with been rivals with and had some real battles with down the years. But Spurs fans joined Villa fans in their protests against Randy Lerners ownership and running of what we view to be a great English club. We sang with them 'We want Lerner out' in notable points through the game and at the protest right at the start. And we do want Lerner out of Aston Villa, it's a disgrace what he has done to that club and we want it back competing on at least a reasonable playing field. English football is full of these stories and the way you dismiss clubs is IMHO and it might well only be my opinion wrong.

If you spent a few hours looking at the history of the all of the current PL clubs you might be shocked at what you will learn.

 

[ti vu]

I don't know where you're from but if you follow English football so closely you should maybe learn about its history because to true English football fans it matters.

Every club in England has a story and every club is important. You might have chosen in the late 90's to support a team that was winning the PL every year or at worse every other year and the CL. Most of us don't have that luxury, most of us are born into our football clubs, it's a family thing and if not usually it's dictated by location. Without the bottom, middle and clubs struggling to get to the top like my own there is nobody for the clubs with all the glory to play against.

There are teams who have nothing against each other, there are rivalries and there are fierce rivalries but true English football fans have empathy as well.

A classic example from only last month when my own team Spurs played away to Villa, a club who at times we've with been rivals with and had some real battles with down the years. But Spurs fans joined Villa fans in their protests against Randy Lerners ownership and running of what we view to be a great English club. We sang with them 'We want Lerner out' in notable points through the game and at the protest right at the start. And we do want Lerner out of Aston Villa, it's a disgrace what he has done to that club and we want it back competing on at least a reasonable playing field. English football is full of these stories and the way you dismiss clubs is IMHO and it might well only be my opinion wrong.

If you spent a few hours looking at the history of the all of the current PL clubs you might be shocked at what you will learn.

Your best post I've come across. Cheers.

I am UK based fan. Success played a part, but not the priority when I chose to follow the club. It's the football, the passion and the players (come from our own youth system) that got me. I was El Fenomenon fan back then, so normally I would pick Inter to follow, but I didn't. Was gutted when Ronaldo scored hattrick at OT. I visited England and went to match from time to time. Football is very complex. The atmosphere speaks. The discussion with (Mr) Stack above is more about the lack of rivalry in the atmosphere between Spurs and United nowadays. It's better to learn it from another older fans than reading somewhere (which also lacking) since older fans would have tale to tell. United has changed a lot and the fan base expanded all over the world. People at different place won't have the same feeling, value as other at the other place on the same matter. It's great to learn something new about the club you support, but it's not possible to duplicate the same feeling for new fans toward something that is so detached for more modern era. Arsenal was not truly North London, the history was written that they are. Would their modern fan go back to root or continue the way they're to be true fan?

 

[GlastonSpur]

What great players have you had between Bale and Kane/Alli that any huge club would want to buy? The reason you've held onto your best players is because your best players were mediocre. Real Madrid aren't going to go in big for Walker, Lennon or Andros Townshend. Seriously look at your season 14/15 squad and tell me who even Arsenal would want, let alone a Barcelona or Madrid.

You'd think by the last statement that Spurs had been fantastic this season. You are 10 points ahead having played 1 more game (so call it 7) and are out of every competition, whilst United have a final to look forward to. On what planet does this put Spurs ahead of United, certainly not by any real margin? If we win the FA Cup you've had a worse season than an injury plagued United team with an idiot as a manager.

You've been in the Champions League is it 3 times since it was re-branded in 1992 whilst winning no trophies at all? You haven't batted above your weight.

Firstly, the list of clubs that might be capable of luring Spurs stars players away is tiny - even in terms of money you might wish to remember that Spurs will be in the global top 10 for income inside the next 2 years, and that's before our new stadium complex comes on stream. And the list is even tinier still given that Levy will no longer sell to a Prem rival, although in any case your mention of Arsenal is a total non-starter.

You say that - inbetween Bale and Kane/Alii - our best players have been "mediocre". Again this is more nonsense: Lloris, Eriksen, Dier and Dembele (for example) are far from being mediocre.

You say "we 10 points ahead having played 1 more game". Actually it's effectively 11 points ahead given our greatly superior GD. And if I were you I wouldn't count an additional 3 points for your game in hand until they actually materialise.

You also say: "On what planet does this put Spurs ahead of United ...?" Answer: planet league table, by a significant margin.

And great, you're in with a chance for the FA Cup - but personally for Spurs I wouldn't swap the certainty of CL football next season for that FA Cup chance, not least because of the effect CL football will have on our finances and helping to keep our squad intact, quite aside from the joy of actually playing in the CL.

I've already explained why Spurs are batting above their weight - the Prem's lowest net spend figures over the last 5 years, the fact of 5 wealthier clubs in the Prem, the top 4 finishes, 2nd place most likely this time around .... these facts speak for themselves, regardless of your determination to dismiss it all.

 

[GlastonSpur]

The gap will likely be single digits to 5th by season's end. That's nothing.

Oh and the team in 5th could end up with a major trophy, thereby overshadowing any Spurs season in over 20 years. Given your crowing on here, that would be rather amusing.

But carry on with the complacency. The 'transient top 4' will not forgive. As you know very well from experience.

Come back to me at the season end, rather than assuming that Spurs are going to drop a lot more points than United in the remaining games. But even 5 points - effectively 6 given our much better GD - would be much more than a "fag paper" gap.

The rest of your post is not worth bothering with.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Come back to me at the season end, rather than assuming that Spurs are going to drop a lot more points than United in the remaining games. But even 5 points - effectively 6 given our much better GD - would be much more than a "fag paper" gap.

The rest of your post is not worth bothering with.

Actually a single digit point gap in the context of Spurs supposedly having their best season in the modern era and United one of their worst is absolutely nothing.

Add in the possibility of a FA Cup win (you never know, we might pull it out of the bag), and a relatively poor United with a lame duck manager would have outdone you not just this season but any season you've had in over 20 years. As you say, the facts would speak for themselves.

You're just a minor footnote in a much greater story about Leicester. And nowhere near the other trophies that matter.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Come back to me at the season end, rather than assuming that Spurs are going to drop a lot more points than United in the remaining games. But even 5 points - effectively 6 given our much better GD - would be much more than a "fag paper" gap.

The rest of your post is not worth bothering with.

People forget out start, I know it's about the whole season but we had a terrible start and were well behind, since then we have gained:

18 points on City
18 points on Utd
13 Points on Arsenal

Even 4 points on Leicester despite them never seeming to drop anything, we've also thrown away a league high 17 points from leading positions.

We are actually in pretty good shape, the next 2 seasons are pivotal for us because the ground situation is going to be very difficult.

 

[Fortitude]

Would it be an embarrassment and a calamity for Spurs to finish behind Manchester United next season?

Of course not - why do you ask? - provided that we also finish in the top 4.

You've changed your tune over the last few pages... with your previous statements and claims of clear disparity between the squads of the two teams and these... trends... and whatnot, I wanted to know if it would then be a calamity for your team, on it's upward trend, to place beneath a side you claim is on a downward trend.

Actually the best thing you could do now is go out and sign 3 first teamers.

Don't think you're anywhere near as good or uncatchable as you think you are. You clearly do need first XI players unless you're happy winning nothing.

You'll likely finish between 4-7 points ahead of us. And that's us with a lame duck manager and a few glaring squad deficiencies.

That's a pretty unimpressive gap and could very easily be over-turned if Spurs stand relatively still in the market, and United get a competent manager and do some good business.

Careful with that complacency...

I'd understand it if they'd had a Pellegrini at RM-like insane pts total and still didn't win the league, but Spurs' are playing for a maximum of 76pts, which is not a title-winning tally.

Spurs' season has been extremely overrated in the cold light of day.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Actually a single digit point gap in the context of Spurs supposedly having their best season in the modern era and United one of their worst is absolutely nothing.

Add in the possibility of a FA Cup win (you never know, we might pull it out of the bag), and a relatively poor United with a lame duck manager would have outdone you not just this season but any season you've had in over 20 years. As you say, the facts would speak for themselves.

You're just a minor footnote in a much greater story about Leicester. And nowhere near the other trophies that matter.

I don't get this post, we can point to a succession of lame duck managers if we want, but surely the boss is the boss.

If we were a minor footnote this season then where was everybody else, you would think Leicester only finished above us, we'll they finished above everybody, some of whom have spent absolute fortunes assembling their teams.

Whatever people say and how ever much they want to do it down automatic CL qualification is a very successful season for us.

 

[Brophs]

It will be pretty interesting to see how they invest in the summer. They don't seem to have any interest in selling any of their more valuable players and, with the ground issue looming on the horizon they may not be keen to really push the boat out. That leaves the question of whether Pochettino can get even more from this squad of players than he did this season or whether they need some reinforcements to take them to the next level. I would assume, albeit perhaps incorrectly, that City, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Arsenal will all strengthen during the summer, so it might come down to whether Pochettino can add more to his squad by coaching than the others can by recruitment.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

You've changed your tune over the last few pages... with your previous statements and claims of clear disparity between the squads of the two teams and these... trends... and whatnot, I wanted to know if it would then be a calamity for your team, on it's upward trend, to place beneath a side you claim is on a downward trend.


I'd understand it if they'd had a Pellegrini at RM-like insane pts total and still didn't win the league, but Spurs' are playing for a maximum of 76pts, which is not a title-winning tally.

Spurs' season has been extremely overrated in the cold light of day.

Points tally's are only relevant to the season that they are gained in, the league is changing, there is less 3 point fodder out there now.

 

[Fortitude]

Points tally's are only relevant to the season that they are gained in, the league is changing, there is less 3 point fodder out there now.

That's something you keep repeating but not something I agree with in any way. Why do you believe that to be true?

 

[lem8sh]

Points tally's are only relevant to the season that they are gained in, the league is changing, there is less 3 point fodder out there now.

Most definitely.

 

[Balu]

Points tally's are only relevant to the season that they are gained in, the league is changing, there is less 3 point fodder out there now.

But that's not a given? Chelsea easily walked to a 87 points finish only last season and Leicester with an individually fairly underwhelming team this season should finish above 80 points as well if they don't show up drunk for the remaining games (I wouldn't hold it against them if they did though).

Why shouldn't a well drilled team full of much better individuals than Leicester has finish again with 85+ points next season? It just doesn't make any sense?

Obviously you should see your season as a success, there's no doubt about that. But you should also realise that you need to improve further if you want to stay at the top of the league, because you went out of every cup competition relatively early this season, often rotating quite heavily to save your players for the league while you still didn't collect a number of points that's impressive (or matches the ambitions of a top team). You can't just ignore that. If you want to challenge for the league, you need to collect more points and if you want to be seen as an overall quality side, you need to collect more points while being impressive in all competitions. I'm not saying you can't improve to that level, I'd actually like to see Tottenham do it because I enjoy watching you play quite a lot. It's just weird how you try to downplay the need to continue to improve. Unless you believe that your performances this season were already good enough to be considered an elite team. That would be delusional though.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

That's something you keep repeating but not something I agree with in any way. Why do you believe that to be true?

Because the lower and mid table teams are improving and are more capable than ever of taking points off of the top group of teams.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[SirHenryPercy]

But that's not a given? Chelsea easily walked to a 87 points finish only last season and Leicester with an individually fairly underwhelming team this season should finish above 80 points as well if they don't show up drunk for the remaining games (I wouldn't hold it against them if they did though).

Why shouldn't a well drilled team full of much better individuals than Leicester has finish again with 85+ points next season? It just doesn't make any sense?

Obviously you should see your season as a success, there's no doubt about that. But you should also realise that you need to improve further if you want to stay at the top of the league, because you went out of every cup competition relatively early this season, often rotating quite heavily to save your players for the league while you still didn't collect a number of points that's impressive (or matches the ambitions of a top team). You can't just ignore that. If you want to challenge for the league, you need to collect more points and if you want to be seen as an overall quality side, you need to collect more points while being impressive in all competitions. I'm not saying you can't improve to that level, I'd actually like to see Tottenham do it because I enjoy watching you play quite a lot. It's just weird how you try to downplay the need to continue to improve. Unless you believe that your performances this season were already good enough to be considered an elite team. That would be delusional though.

I have never said anywhere to anybody that Spurs don't need to improve, not even once.

Our need for improvement is obvious and some of the areas we need to improve in are also obvious.

There is no set number of points to win the league, finish top 4 or to stay up, it takes whatever it takes in any given season. It might well be in the coming seasons as the league gets increasingly competitive that 80 or a total in the high 70's will give you a genuine chance of finishing top, we shall see.

 

[MDFC Manager]

It will be pretty interesting to see how they invest in the summer. They don't seem to have any interest in selling any of their more valuable players and, with the ground issue looming on the horizon they may not be keen to really push the boat out. That leaves the question of whether Pochettino can get even more from this squad of players than he did this season or whether they need some reinforcements to take them to the next level. I would assume, albeit perhaps incorrectly, that City, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Arsenal will all strengthen during the summer, so it might come down to whether Pochettino can add more to his squad by coaching than the others can by recruitment.

If they don't freshen up the squad, they could well be in for a rude shock next season. Potch has run his squad pretty damn hard this season already.

 

[Brophs]

If they don't freshen up the squad, they could well be in for a rude shock next season. Potch has run his squad pretty damn hard this season already.

Yeah, could well be the case. I suppose my thinking is that he has a lot of guys at the right age to train on. That said, I think gambling on Kane staying fit again would be really risky. I can see them going for Berahino again, albeit he's been in poor form this season. They also probably have the issue of not wanting to buy established players like Wanyama if it's going to hamper the development of people like Dier, which can be a tricky line at times.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Actually a single digit point gap in the context of Spurs supposedly having their best season in the modern era and United one of their worst is absolutely nothing. ... .

9 points is a single digit - and a 9 point gap would be far from "absolutely nothing". Currently, however the gap is effectively 11 points. In other words, when it comes to commenting on the points gap, you're talking drivel.

And your "modern historical context" just sounds like an attempted excuse to me, to try and explain away the fact that Spurs have been the better team - and for the 2nd time in the last 3 years to boot. This would also explain why you've been so apparently desperate to describe an effective 11 point gap as a "fag-paper" width .... lol

 

[Fortitude]

Because the lower and mid table teams are improving and are more capable than ever of taking points off of the top group of teams.

Wouldn't you agree?

Not entirely, no. The top sides aren't going to remain as incompetent as they have been, and it's only during this period, where the top sides need to rebuild themselves, that the mid and lower clubs have made inroads - it's not because they're stronger, rather, that the top is weaker than it should or will be.

City and United, both on 89pts(!) battled down to goal difference; Chelsea romped to the title as the only semi-competent side last season with a tally of 87pts, Leicester, if they aren't pissed up, could end on 83pts. The tallies constantly suggest the sides below them didn't cause much bother, and Leicester are hardly a halcyon title winner as they've fought tooth and nail for a while now as opposed to the relative canter most title winners have had over the last few years.

Once the top sides are back to full force, high pts tallies will again be the norm for them, imo. In no recent season has 76pts been close to enough to win the league.

 

[Balu]

I have never said anywhere to anybody that Spurs don't need to improve, not even once.

Our need for improvement is obvious and some of the areas we need to improve in are also obvious.

There is no set number of points to win the league, finish top 4 or to stay up, it takes whatever it takes in any given season. It might well be in the coming seasons as the league gets increasingly competitive that 80 or a total in the high 70's will give you a genuine chance of finishing top, we shall see.

Obviously there's no set number of points to win the league. But that doesn't really answer the question why an elite team with better individuals than Leicester this season that's equally well drilled tactically shouldn't finish on more points again? Trying to portray Tottenham's points total this season as worth more than an equal number was in previous years doesn't make much sense considering the strength of the team at the top compared to previous winners.

At least one or two of the English top teams will become an elite side again, there's simply too much money available and too much knowledge with the new managers coming in for it not to happen. It might even be that Poch can turn Tottenham into an elite side, who knows. Whatever club or clubs it'll be, surely you'd expect them to better Leicester's points this season in a comparably strong league? Then comparing points over different seasons does make sense as an indicator for the strength of the team, even though it's of course just one of several factors that should be considered.

 

[GlastonSpur]

You've changed your tune over the last few pages... with your previous statements and claims of clear disparity between the squads of the two teams and these... trends... and whatnot, I wanted to know if it would then be a calamity for your team, on it's upward trend, to place beneath a side you claim is on a downward trend .....

No more than it's a calamity to have finished below Leicester City this season. But tbh Spurs now have other things to focus on without bothering about where United may or may not finish in the league.

PS. A trend does not necessarily mean each and every season ... which I assume you know but just want to play dumb, though this makes for tiresome posts.

 

[Summit]

No more than it's a calamity to have finished below Leicester City this season. But tbh Spurs now have other things to focus on without bothering about where United may or may not finish in the league.

PS. A trend does not necessarily mean each and every season ... which I assume you know but just want to play dumb, though this makes for tiresome posts.

Glaston, a noob would like to say hello

Spoiler

 

[Kraftwerker]

9 points is a single digit - and a 9 point gap would be far from "absolutely nothing". Currently, however the gap is effectively 11 points. In other words, when it comes to commenting on the points gap, you're talking drivel.

And your "modern historical context" just sounds like an attempted excuse to me, to try and explain away the fact that Spurs have been the better team - and for the 2nd time in the last 3 years to boot. This would also explain why you've been so apparently desperate to describe an effective 11 point gap as a "fag-paper" width .... lol

I guess that's subjective. A single digit gap (and my money's on it being 4-7 points) would be nothing considering the context.

You even said it yourself. Despite winning nothing, Spurs have over-achieved this season. United have massively under-achieved. Ergo, if both club's returned to their expected levels of achievement, the a single digit difference in points is nothing. Not that catching Spurs should be the limit of our ambition going forward.

My modern historical context refers only to this season. You don't get much more modern than that. If United can win the FA cup this season it will have been a more successful season for the club than anything Spurs have managed in 3, 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Take your pick.

You can apply all the Glastonmaths you want, that will just be a fact.

 

[Cheesy]

I guess that's subjective. A single digit gap (and my money's on it being 4-7 points) would be nothing considering the context.

You even said it yourself. Despite winning nothing, Spurs have over-achieved this season. United have massively under-achieved. Ergo, if both club's returned to their expected levels of achievement, the a single digit difference in points is nothing. Not that catching Spurs should be the limit of our ambition going forward.

My modern historical context refers only to this season. You don't get much more modern than that. If United can win the FA cup this season it will have been a more successful season for the club than anything Spurs have managed in 3, 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Take your pick.

You can apply all the Glastonmaths you want, that will just be a fact.

I'd say a surprise 2nd placed finish and no trophies is better than 5th and an FA Cup these days.

 

[finneh]

Firstly, the list of clubs that might be capable of luring Spurs stars players away is tiny - even in terms of money you might wish to remember that Spurs will be in the global top 10 for income inside the next 2 years

Firstly you say top 10 like that's a huge achievement for a Premier League club. When Newcastle, Everton, West Ham, Leicester, Sunderland, Swansea, Stoke, Palace, West Brom & So'ton are going to be 13th - 22nd position minimum (save relegation) your 10th position isn't anything worth mentioning. You add into that the fact that a lot of those clubs are debt free whereas Spurs will have a large debt pile with big interest payments each year and it wouldn't be a big shock to see the aforementioned 10 clubs outbidding you on wages and transfer fee's. For instance I wouldn't be surprised to see one of your top targets in the Summer (someone like Berahino for example), ending up being offered a bigger salary and being outbid on the fee by West Ham.

Also, it's very good to hear you say that Spurs only need a couple of squad additions to stay competitive. With every club around you likely to significantly improve that'll be just what United, Chelsea, Arsenal & City want to hear.

, and that's before our new stadium complex comes on stream. And the list is even tinier still given that Levy will no longer sell to a Prem rival, although in any case your mention of Arsenal is a total non-starter.

The stadium will increase turnover, but ask Arsenal how long it took that to trickle through to increasing their transfer/wage budget. Hint: they singed Ozil 7 years after they moved to the Emirates. Arsenal being a club with a much larger turnover than Spurs to begin with. Again I'm not saying Kane moves to Arsenal; I'm saying Kane moves to Madrid and Benzema moves to Arsenal (as Ozil). There was no difference between you selling Bale to Arsenal and you selling Bale to Madrid who then sold Ozil to Arsenal - you are facilitating the move of a world class player to your rival either way.

You say that - inbetween Bale and Kane/Alii - our best players have been "mediocre". Again this is more nonsense: Lloris, Eriksen, Dier and Dembele (for example) are far from being mediocre.

The year after Bale left Eriksen had had one decent but unspectacular season at Spurs; Dembele was used often from the bench and was somewhat average and Dier was still at Sporting. Lloris also isn't the caliber of 'keeper a truly top team would be after - that'd be the likes of De Gea/Courtois. So you are inaccurate to imply that Spurs have had player's on their books that the top teams would be after over the past 3 years (until this Summer).

You say "we 10 points ahead having played 1 more game". Actually it's effectively 11 points ahead given our greatly superior GD. And if I were you I wouldn't count an additional 3 points for your game in hand until they actually materialise.

It isn't effectively 11 points as if we had another 11 points we'd be ahead of you in the table by 1 point. That's simple Maths.

You also say: "On what planet does this put Spurs ahead of United ...?" Answer: planet league table, by a significant margin.

I said on what planet is a potential FA Cup win and finishing 7 points behind being classed as a much worse season and a trend of one team becoming much worse and the other much better? Again I'm such most Spurs fans would prefer their first major trophy in 25 years vs seeing their team play 6-8 Champions League games before getting put in their place by a big team.

And great, you're in with a chance for the FA Cup - but personally for Spurs I wouldn't swap the certainty of CL football next season for that FA Cup chance, not least because of the effect CL football will have on our finances and helping to keep our squad intact, quite aside from the joy of actually playing in the CL.

Most fans tend to celebrate winning trophies, rather than a good set of financial accounts.

I've already explained why Spurs are batting above their weight - the Prem's lowest net spend figures over the last 5 years, the fact of 5 wealthier clubs in the Prem, the top 4 finishes, 2nd place most likely this time around .... these facts speak for themselves, regardless of your determination to dismiss it all.

I remember between 2005 and 2010 United having one of the lowest net spends in the League (I believe under £15m in 5 seasons). We won 4 League titles and 1 Champions League title during that period. That's batting above your weight. Playing in the Champions League once in 5 years (or twice in 6 years), merely taking advantage of others' disastrous seasons; whilst also winning no trophies whatsoever... Isn't. Unless you have very, very low standards.

The fact that you were 5 points ahead of us in 13/14 but then 6 points behind in 14/15 tends to suggest that even an 11 point swing isn't example abnormal.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Honestly Glaston is the only Spurs fan I know who is this arrogant regarding their team. Clearly he ain't staying grounded. This was their biggest chance to win the title in a season where the typical top 4 had an absolute shocker. Leicester took full advantage of it.

They just have to hope that the likes of Chelsea and City don't wake up and realise how shit they were this season.

 

[do.ob]

It's quite eye opening how Glaston argues that Spurselona are awesome for being very successful with limited ressources and at the same time awesome for having great ressources to fight off interest from other teams.

 

[GlastonSpur]

I guess that's subjective. A single digit gap (and my money's on it being 4-7 points) would be nothing considering the context.

You even said it yourself. Despite winning nothing, Spurs have over-achieved this season. United have massively under-achieved. Ergo, if both club's returned to their expected levels of achievement, the a single digit difference in points is nothing. Not that catching Spurs should be the limit of our ambition going forward.

My modern historical context refers only to this season. You don't get much more modern than that. If United can win the FA cup this season it will have been a more successful season for the club than anything Spurs have managed in 3, 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Take your pick.

You can apply all the Glastonmaths you want, that will just be a fact.

You previously called the gap to 6th place (effectively 12 points) a "fag-paper width". That's not so much subjective, more just wilfully stupid and blind.

According to you, Spurs have over-achieved this season and United have massively under-achieved ... but over/under achievement in comparison to what? Over/under achievement in comparison to money spent? Yes: United have vastly outspent Spurs.

Over/under achievement in comparison to squad quality? No, Spurs have a much better first XI and a better squad so you'd expect them to finish above United. In other words, the current United team didn't really under-achieve - they are just not that good and so will finish in a league place suited to their level.

Thus your mention of United returning to an expected "level of achievement" has meaning mainly only in relation to the money spent. And given that it's the 2nd season in three that you've finished below Spurs, this "expected return" carries with it a big fat IF.

 

[do.ob]

I really hope you are just blinded by your hatred towards United. In the grand scheme of things Spurselona have achieved nothing worth mentioning yet.
In a few years no one will look at this season and say "remember how good Spurselona were back then?", yet when I read your posts it seems like Spurselona are 10 points clear at the top of table.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Honestly Glaston is the only Spurs fan I know who is this arrogant regarding their team. .... .

I'm not being at all arrogant. Is it arrogant to believe that Spurs will not sell their star players this summer? Is it arrogant to think that Spurs should finish in the top 4 again next season? Is it arrogant to state the truth (e.g. that Spurs will be in the global top 10 for income inside two years)?

You translate as arrogance my simply pulling to pieces the many lightweight and absurd comments that have been made in this thread by posters who naturally hate the fact that Spurs have again finished above United (and will be playing in the CL most likely in place of United) and who thus want desperarately - against all rational argument and common sense - to pretend that nothing has really changed, and that Spurs are going to collapse and fade away.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

I'm not being at all arrogant. Is it arrogant to believe that Spurs will not sell their star players this summer? Is it arrogant to think that Spurs should finish in the top 4 again next season? Is it arrogant to state the truth (e.g. that Spurs will be in the global top 10 for income inside two years)?

You translate as arrogance my simply pulling to pieces the many lightweight and absurd comments that have been made in this thread by posters who naturally hate the fact that Spurs have again finished above United (and will be playing in the CL most likely in place of United) and who thus want desperarately - against all rational argument and common sense - to pretend that nothing has really changed, and that Spurs are going to collapse and fade away.

I can't argue with any of the questions you mention in the first paragraph. Spurs have a very good team, and you'd probably struggle to choose more than two or three positions in which they would need to upgrade on. I will give you that. The foundations to build on this season is right there for you, and Potch has done a wonderful job.

With that being said, you have been winding up many fans in this thread/forum for a number of months. The only thing I said was that Spurs' best chance to win the title was this season - you can't deny that you and Leicester were rather fortunate at Chelsea's massive feck up, City's inconsistency and United's lingering plague - (I'm leaving out Arsenal's bottling because it happens every year). It doesn't seem as if you appreciate that and are being blissfully ignorant to that fact.

Nevertheless, you often defend some comments against Spurs by just regurgitating the same comment that Spurs finished above United. Very well but have you seen the state our current manager is in? Leicester have destroyed Chelsea in league table terms this season, but that doesn't mean the former is vastly superior to Chelsea in terms of status or future progression...

 

[acnumber9]

I don't know about anyone else but I'd expect a much better team with a much better manager to be further clear of a Utd team littered with injuries and an incompetent in charge. Spurs really have underachieved with that great team. Question marks over the manager in that circumstance.

 

[GlastonSpur]

It's quite eye opening how Glaston argues that Spurselona are awesome for being very successful with limited ressources and at the same time awesome for having great ressources to fight off interest from other teams.

You confuse (a) low-net spend on transfers (equals limited resources in comparison with league table finishes) with (b) the retention of the capacity to still pay decent wages, coupled with having an excellent manager and CL football to offer, plus a London location (equals good resources to fight off interest from other teams).

The two types of resources are not the same - thus one can be limited and the other far less limited.

 

[Piratesoup]

NET SPEND!

That's got my bullshit bingo rawk-edition card filled out.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

I don't know about anyone else but I'd expect a much better team with a much better manager to be further clear of a Utd team littered with injuries and an incompetent in charge. Spurs really have underachieved with that great team. Question marks over the manager in that circumstance.

Saying Spurs have underachieved this season is frankly ridiculous. Not too many people gave us a chance of top 4 let alone automatic CL places.

There is a thread on here started in August where people similar to yourself were falling about laughing at the very notion that Utd would finish outside of the top 4 (which they might) and that Spurs could finish above them or other clubs.

We even gave up 8 or 10 point advantages to all of City, Arsenal, Utd and Leicester by having a terrible start. As it stands we have managed to overhaul all of them instead of one, the unlikely one.

We have had an excellent season, automatic qualification to the CL group stages is far more than we hoped for back in August.

If you're calling that an underachievement then your expectations of what certain clubs should be achieving are extremely out of kilter with reality.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

I really hope you are just blinded by your hatred towards United. In the grand scheme of things Spurselona have achieved nothing worth mentioning yet.
In a few years no one will look at this season and say "remember how good Spurselona were back then?", yet when I read your posts it seems like Spurselona are 10 points clear at the top of table.

Are you sure it's him that's got the hatred problem?

 

[do.ob]

Are you sure it's him that's got the hatred problem?

Yes. I'm just paying Spurselona the respect that their fans demand in this thread.
What I don't understand is how someone can seriously believe that Spurselona's squad is much better than Uniteds both in terms of first XI and depth, just because they are likely to finish a few points higher, when United as a team are having a terrible season under a failing coach. Especially when depth is explicitly mentioned after Spurselona waved the white flag in the EL, I mean that's just comical.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Yes. I'm just paying Spurselona the respect that their fans demand in this thread.
What I don't understand is how someone can seriously believe that Spurselona's squad is much better than Uniteds both in terms of first XI and depth, just because they are likely to finish a few points higher, when United as a team are having a terrible season under a failing coach. Especially when depth is explicitly mentioned after Spurselona waved the white flag in the EL, I mean that's just comical.

Trust me it's certainly not him who has the problem, you need to look closer to home.

 

[Boycott]

I don't know where you're from but if you follow English football so closely you should maybe learn about its history because to true English football fans it matters.

Every club in England has a story and every club is important. You might have chosen in the late 90's to support a team that was winning the PL every year or at worse every other year and the CL. Most of us don't have that luxury, most of us are born into our football clubs, it's a family thing and if not usually it's dictated by location. Without the bottom, middle and clubs struggling to get to the top like my own there is nobody for the clubs with all the glory to play against.

There are teams who have nothing against each other, there are rivalries and there are fierce rivalries but true English football fans have empathy as well.

A classic example from only last month when my own team Spurs played away to Villa, a club who at times we've with been rivals with and had some real battles with down the years. But Spurs fans joined Villa fans in their protests against Randy Lerners ownership and running of what we view to be a great English club. We sang with them 'We want Lerner out' in notable points through the game and at the protest right at the start. And we do want Lerner out of Aston Villa, it's a disgrace what he has done to that club and we want it back competing on at least a reasonable playing field. English football is full of these stories and the way you dismiss clubs is IMHO and it might well only be my opinion wrong.

If you spent a few hours looking at the history of the all of the current PL clubs you might be shocked at what you will learn.

Great post.

 

[rimaldo]

whilst lvg is at united then spurs will continue to finish above us. spurs have a better 11 and a better manager. what they have done over the last couple of years is truly impressive, whether they've had a hand in others declining or not. they needed the foundations in place to be able to take advantage of that and they are well managed from top to bottom, we aren't.

however, if we manage to employ anyone half decent we will overtake them again. give 250m to mourinho and we're above spurs again. we too have some decent youngsters and a few top class talents. give us a manager with a clear direction he wants to take us and the ability to sign players to fit to his system and we'll be ok. lvg has spent the last two years paying through the nose for players he doesn't want to play or even seemingly rate. he's spent 250m and he still starts lingard and fellaini every game he can. we know we're a bit of a laughing stock.

regardless of a good year, or even a good couple of years, spurs are not among the real big boys yet. it takes years and years and years of success to get amongst the likes of bayern, barcelona, real etc. spurs are an attractive club to play for but there are bigger fish out there. they will not be the number one destination for a lot of players, either away from the club or even at the club.

unfortunately, the better they do the more likely it is that their best players will be off. if kane has a good euros and destroys a big side or two next year in the cl then he'll have some tempting offers and could be off. when barca or real come knocking then they're very rarely unsuccessful with the chase. kane may love spurs but the chance to really make history at one of the top three club sides ever will doubtless be a big pull for him.

with all due respect to spurs, they've just finished at best, second, in a league that fecking leicester have just won, barcelona probably aren't casting anything more than a furtive glance at any of their players right now. the real big boys are probably looking mahrez, vardy and kante instead of eriksen, kane and alli.

but, with many of spurs brightest surely starting for england in the euros this summer, as well as in the cl next year, they're in the shop window for all the real big boys. spurs are no different to 99.99% of clubs in that they've always lost their best players to bigger clubs. unfortunately for spurs there are a fair few more of those relative to them, compared to us.

i don't see how a new stadium will change that, nor finishing top 4 once every 2 years. if anything, where they are now will catapult them to a position where more attractive clubs are more attracted to their assets. winning the league this year might have made a few players stick around a bit longer, some real success is hard to walk away from. top four finishes and getting knocked out of the group stages in the cl isn't. just ask bale or modric.

spurs have still got some work to do, i think they'll have a harder job than us to be at the big table in a few years. if they can keep all their players together then they have a chance, i don't see it though, not without some real success. at the minute they're still a poor man's arsenal, a good squad of players, playing a decent brand of football, being not really nearly men, there's a long way to go from there to the real big leagues where they can fend of interest in their stars and give them the kind of success they dreamt about as kids.

spurs are on the up, sustaining that will be harder for them than it will be for us to head back in the right direction. we probably need nothing more than a decent manager, that isn't enough for spurs.