OK cheers.
UK Riots (with the exception of Manchester which has its own thread)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
OK cheers.
Anyone else think the delay in strong police action is a tactic in order to be alot more heavy handed in the future? Like a "look what happens when you criticise us?".
Its just mind boggling to see what people have got away with and police and pm's response being "er, oh we'll arrest you at a later date".
And its no coincidence when David Cameron arrives back in England that the police presence is stepped up, no reason that measure could not have been taken on the days ago with a simple phone call from the comfort of his hotel room.
Its just mind boggling to see what people have got away with and police and pm's response being "er, oh we'll arrest you at a later date".
And its no coincidence when David Cameron arrives back in England that the police presence is stepped up, no reason that measure could not have been taken on the days ago with a simple phone call from the comfort of his hotel room.
You're just allowing police to utilize water cannons, tear gas and rubber bullets? I know you guys don't go hard on criminals over there, but damn.
No chance.
Please dont say you think the calm in London last night was due to Cameron , because he did feck all , the fact that there was 16,000 Police on the London street is the reason.
Exactly.
It's embarassing I know.
Many people have been calling for the army to be deployed and show these thugs who's boss. In places like Russia they would be out on day 2 and they would be shooting looters on sight.
For what it's worth, the softly-softly approach from the police so far hasn't eradicated the problem fully. They have no respect for anyone right now and they must be taught the hard way. I've been saying use water cannons, tear gas, rubber bullets, tasers from the start. Get the police tooled up and tell them to go on the offensive to take back control. I don't care how young some of them are. They are old enough to know they are committing crimes and they should face the full force of the law.
this is from Facebook , not going to help the calm in Birmingham.
163 arrests in the West Midlands overnight, as per Chief Constable Chris Sims on Sky. Re: the 3 dead men, victims were Asian Muslims - a car was driven into a group of about 30-40. One man arrested for murder - police believe it was deliberate. CC Sims also appeals for calm.
163 arrests in the West Midlands overnight, as per Chief Constable Chris Sims on Sky. Re: the 3 dead men, victims were Asian Muslims - a car was driven into a group of about 30-40. One man arrested for murder - police believe it was deliberate. CC Sims also appeals for calm.
eh? i think you missed my point. No reason why that 16,000 could not have been inserted at a earlier date..
I think it's possible.
Should something like this happen again, there is no way they can be that foolish to just stand by and not do anything.. that said it would be a very expensive 'experiment' which would if found out to be true, piss a lot more people off.
Generally speaking, I support the police; but I do wonder why they effectively stand-off from the rioters and yet deploy strong-arm tactics when it comes to anti-war/anti-globalist/student protesters...
I'm not convinced that it's the police themselves who are responsible for the contrast in tactics.
I'm not convinced that it's the police themselves who are responsible for the contrast in tactics.
Upinders Tweet : "On the Road and ready to face any challenge. Will be live on Sangat TV (Sky 847) shortly....."
Because when they employ strong arm tactics they get in trouble themselves, one is up on a manslaughter charge after G20.
Nice article.
Along with this comment about chavs;
wichdoctor 10 August 2011 8:03AM
We have a large section of society mostly young with no stake in it. They are derided as 'chavs'. excluded from jobs even menial ones. Told by the wealthy they are useless yet fed on by the same wealthy (£145 a year demanded to pay rich BBC journalists). Derided by MPs as wasters while those same MPs dip their snouts in the trough and suport murder and torture overseas. Called criminals by police who sweep through areas assaulting and sometimes killing with impunity (is there ever going to be an inquest on Azzele Rodney).
To get the pittance society allows them they have to 'agree' to hunt for non existant jobs that many of them are unskilled for anyway all the while being denigrated by job centre staff and sanctioned with loss of benefits for the slightest infringement.
And this is now the second generation. Many of them will have parents who left school in the 1980s and faced identical problems that were never fully solved.
Then we get rich bastards telling us that these people rioting burning and looting is unnacceptable yet not one of them asks why it happened. They say poverty is no excuse. It may not be an excuse but taken with other things it is a damned good reason for it happening. There is no single cause in my view but when a generation of young people are squeezed onto the bottom of this pile of shit we call British society then this sort of thing was inevitable. You cannot keep telling people they are surplus to requirements and expect them to continue to support the status quo.
Poke a rotweiller with a stick long enough and it will bite you when it gets the chance
Well, according to the Former Commander, he said there were many issues and frustrations from the actual officers out on the streets with the senior members of the police force. I can imagine they wanted to do more.
So how's London looking? Has it totally calmed down now?
What the hell is happening in that picture?
They are tough on peaceful protesters and soft on hardened criminals. A jury and a sane person can tell the difference a shame the police cannot.
We are seeing the fertilization of our youths, or the humanization of our animals.
Looks like he's holding a Kirpan
What the hell is happening in that picture?
saw that pic on facebook , that women has just robbed tons of Haribo sweets from a poundland shopThis guy is a legend. It wouldn't suprise me if he got employed by BBC/Sky, his reporting is excellent.
Personally I'm not entirely unconvinced the tactics aren't to deflect attention from yet another police shooting. I mean, who is going to care about Mark Duggan in the aftermath of half the country being torn up?
In fairness, the defence given by a senior police figure on the BBC this morning seemed to make some sense. He was arguing that water cannon and rubber bullets are designed for driving back heavy crowds who are attacking the police, rather than the fast moving groups seen in these riots. None of these tools are really meant for taking people down and arresting them. There have only been a few incidents that I've seen where the police had to deal with an advancing crowd attacking them, and in most cases those at the scenes have described the looters running as soon as police arrived. While using things like this would probably have discouraged some people from taking part, it would also lead to situations where the police end up looking heavy-handed, without being all that effective.
He's not afraid to go anywhere without a police presence and interview people.
A lot of people are talking about Sangat TV now. He's getting quite popular considering he works for a small sikh channel that just started up recently.
If you'd suddenly brought 2 water cannons in last night, one at each end of Market Street and placed just a few policemen at each of the small exits off that street you'd have most likely ended up with every single looter in that area caught. They would have had nowhere to run and they'd have been too weighed down by water to run anyway.
This depresses and sickens me
I mean, how? How can people do that?
According to the Muslim Council's twitter, he was a Malaysian Student who had only ventured out to break his fast for Ramadhan... Sickening how anyone could do that
Well he shouldnt have decided to study in London - it's a shithole. He could have got mugged any other time it's just this time it was filmed.
For those who didn't see that Gif, as I said yesterday, it was from Vancouver, nothing to do with here....
I see a fair bit of talk in the media and on facebook about not politicising this at all being the way to go... Am I alone in thinking that it's madness to think that tens of thousands of youths have just collectively lost their shit despite having every opportunity to partake in society rather than oppose and destroy it?
Not that it in any way absolves them, but would they have done all this in such numbers if social mobility were better and if they felt they had a future and a stake in their country?
If I were to buy into their worldview then I'd be scared shitless... People tilting over nothing, just because they reckon it's a good time... especially if it were just wanton (at its root, because obviously, on the face of it, this is wanton destruction and violence) and there's no such thing as a disincentive to these "loonies".
Not that it in any way absolves them, but would they have done all this in such numbers if social mobility were better and if they felt they had a future and a stake in their country?
If I were to buy into their worldview then I'd be scared shitless... People tilting over nothing, just because they reckon it's a good time... especially if it were just wanton (at its root, because obviously, on the face of it, this is wanton destruction and violence) and there's no such thing as a disincentive to these "loonies".
The guy had a gun, nobody can seriously blame the police for shooting him.
This depresses and sickens me
I mean, how? How can people do that?
According to the Muslim Council's twitter, he was a Malaysian Student who had only ventured out to break his fast for Ramadhan... Sickening how anyone could do that
Can anyone link me to Sangat? I'm in the mood for an afternoon of Uphinda. The man is a credit to his profession in an industry which has lost pretty much all it's credibility
It's not on yet, just religious stuff.
These riots aren't taking place in leafy suburbs but the poor inner cities with poor state schools and no working opportunities. My take on this is that this is a [small] sample of the working class underbelly of modern society behind most of these riots. They aren't educated or hardworking or determined enough to get on the job ladder. They live on benefits and have no concept of working to support yourself, particularly if they've come from broken families with absent or similarly feckless parents unable to instill this in them.
I don't buy into this "the wealthy elite has oppressed the working classes forcing them to riot" nonsense. You've got a bunch of hooligans burning shit and stealing shit randomly. They're not ransacking symbolic places, they're breaking into JD sports and stealing a pair of trainers they like. The total disregard for property and order is a result of these people not having any personal investment in society; they're used to taking and taking without giving anything back.
I don't buy into this "the wealthy elite has oppressed the working classes forcing them to riot" nonsense. You've got a bunch of hooligans burning shit and stealing shit randomly. They're not ransacking symbolic places, they're breaking into JD sports and stealing a pair of trainers they like. The total disregard for property and order is a result of these people not having any personal investment in society; they're used to taking and taking without giving anything back.
But it's partially true nonetheless. There are pitifully few excuses to be made for these rioters/looters and I've no intention of defending such appalling behaviour; however, there is a measure of truth in the part I quoted. The old notion that 'If you work hard enough, you'll be rewarded' no longer holds true - it's as expedient and cynical as what Wilfred Owen wrote about the cannon fodder who were told the 'old lie' that it is both wonderful and a great honour to die for their country.
Jesus Christ.
Where the feck's that from?
Lambeth, my borough, which was hit twice, is 63% white by last census. I'm not aware there are any "black boroughs" in London. Considering "blacks" make up only around 10-15% of London, they'd be doing extraordinarily well to be the majority population in any borough.
Lambeth, my borough, which was hit twice, is 63% white by last census. I'm not aware there are any "black boroughs" in London. Considering "blacks" make up only around 10-15% of London, they'd be doing extraordinarily well to be the majority population in any borough.