Varchester City 18/19 discussion

[Mb194dc]

If you extrapolate their current points total to the end of the season you get 101.3, they've played most of the big teams away already though. So they should have a relatively easier 26 games to play. They'll probably finish on 103-105~.

Liverpool, Spurs and us (Chelsea) are far inferior and inconsistent. You can see from performances against better quality teams in Europe, Liverpool getting comfortably beaten by Red Star, and Spurs have struggled badly too in Europe. The poor quality of most of the premier league and most referee decisions going in favour of the chasers is all that's keeping things competitive at the moment. Newcastle are 14th, if the form for the teams at the bottom holds as per the first 12 games, they'd finish in that position on only 29 points, dire!

 

[Tommy]

If you extrapolate their current points total to the end of the season you get 101.3, they've played most of the big teams away already though. So they should have a relatively easier 26 games to play. They'll probably finish on 103-105~.

Liverpool, Spurs and us (Chelsea) are far inferior and inconsistent. You can see from performances against better quality teams in Europe, Liverpool getting comfortably beaten by Red Star, and Spurs have struggled badly too in Europe. The poor quality of most of the Premier League and most referee decisions going in favour of the chasers is all that's keeping things competitive at the moment. Newcastle are 14th, if the form for the teams at the bottom holds as per the first 12 games, they'd finish in that position on only 29 points, dire!

Whoa. I mean, I knew the lower half of the table weren't having the best time so far this season, but that'd be absolutely insane!

 

[SCP]

On a serious note, only today watched the full match and what surprises me is that they didn't even looked at their best. Frightening stuff for the opponents imo, not only United.

 

[Emptihead]

On a serious note, only today watched the full match and what surprises me is that they didn't even looked at their best. Frightening stuff for the opponents imo, not only United.

I think one of the biggest differences this season to last is that when City have a solid lead they don't play quite as attacking particularly with the fullbacks. They don't stop attacking mind but it is more reserved. Think that is why City have conceded less goals then last season. This more reserved attacking approach is also used against the other big sides. This was particularly apparent in the Liverpool game.
That is the one thing about Pep about what makes him such an incredible coach. He reflects so much on the defeats and it tweaks his philosophy accordingly. I am sure it was the liverpool and even United games last season that made him make such tweaks.

 

[JamiePollocksOG]

I think one of the biggest differences this season to last is that when City have a solid lead they don't play quite as attacking particularly with the fullbacks. They don't stop attacking mind but it is more reserved. Think that is why City have conceded less goals then last season. This more reserved attacking approach is also used against the other big sides. This was particularly apparent in the Liverpool game.
That is the one thing about Pep about what makes him such an incredible coach. He reflects so much on the defeats and it tweaks his philosophy accordingly. I am sure it was the Liverpool and even United games last season that made him make such tweaks.

I think it's got more to do with the absence of KDB. Think we all agree he is one of the best midfielders and would probably get into most sides if not all in the world.

With his absence though it has given Bernardo a more central role and the guy is like a terrier. He's always snapping at heels, seems to be more defensively minded than de Bruyne and when KDB came on a couple of weeks ago as a sub, instantly you could see he was much further up the field leaving more space in behind him.

Im not saying we are a better team without Kev but are we a more balanced team?

Gets my mouth watering to think we could see De Bruyne play Left Wing to help rotation.

Could you imagine a 5 of Silva, Silva, KDB, Sterling and Aguero.

Frightening!

 

[Adisa]

I've been in Nigeria for a few days. I must have seen at least six City jerseys I'm the last two days alone. Don't think I saw a single one before two years ago.

 

[GhastlyHun]

I've been in Nigeria for a few days. I must have seen at least six City jerseys I'm the last two days alone. Don't think I saw a single one before two years ago.

How many United, Real, Barca? ^^

 

[Mcking]

I've been in Nigeria for a few days. I must have seen at least six City jerseys I'm the last two days alone. Don't think I saw a single one before two years ago.

I have started seeing a few City jerseys here too. Some one-two people were even City fans and were actively supporting them in a pub a few days ago.

 

[Bergman]

I've been in Nigeria for a few days. I must have seen at least six City jerseys I'm the last two days alone. Don't think I saw a single one before two years ago.

I think in Africa they are/were cutting into Arsenl's disgruntled fan base.

 

[Adisa]

How many United, Real, Barca? ^^

Can't count. Think we have the biggest fanbase here by far, so maybe I've not taken note of it as much.
The Spanish club's jerseys are pretty common but I'll say ours is worn far more than any club.
I'm just surprised to have seen so many City fans in a short space of time.

I think in Africa they are/were cutting into Arsenl's disgruntled fan base.

A lot of Arsenal fans I know in Nigeria had lost interest in football the last time I spoke to them.

 

[SER19]

Broken the league. Gap between them and others is stupid really. Consider the derby and that their best players were all there before guardiola then the amount he spent- why shouldn't they be winning it easily.

And did it by cheating

 

[Treble]

I think one of the biggest differences this season to last is that when City have a solid lead they don't play quite as attacking particularly with the fullbacks. They don't stop attacking mind but it is more reserved. Think that is why City have conceded less goals then last season. This more reserved attacking approach is also used against the other big sides. This was particularly apparent in the Liverpool game.
That is the one thing about Pep about what makes him such an incredible coach. He reflects so much on the defeats and it tweaks his philosophy accordingly. I am sure it was the Liverpool and even United games last season that made him make such tweaks.

Think City played with fear in the first half. Guardiola admitted that much. Apparently, the derby loss in April hurt you seriously and your players were extremely cautious after Silva's goal.

 

[Stacks]

This season has started in a telling way. There were many who convinced the fanbase that last season was a one off and we would not need 100 odd points to win it. This was not reflected in Peps past teams who run away every season with crazy points differences. What I didnt expect was United to get usurped by virtually everyone else and be battling with the Bournemouths and Eddy Howes of this world. We are better than this

 

[Naz]

Empithad getting an extra 10,000 seats according to Bluemoon. Consultations with supporters underway.

Broken the league. Gap between them and others is stupid really. Consider the derby and that their best players were all there before Guardiola then the amount he spent- why shouldn't they be winning it easily.

And did it by cheating

Ederson, Walker, Mendy, LaPorte, Sane, Bernardo Silva, Mahrez, Foden are new players

They bought a lot better than Utd and have an outstanding coach. If spending money is cheating then what are Fulham, Bournemouth, Wolves, Liverpool, Everton, Utd doing?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Can't count. Think we have the biggest fanbase here by far, so maybe I've not taken note of it as much.
The Spanish club's jerseys are pretty common but I'll say ours is worn far more than any club.
I'm just surprised to have seen so many City fans in a short space of time.


A lot of Arsenal fans I know in Nigeria had lost interest in football the last time I spoke to them.

Same with India. United and Barca are the ones I see the most. Think we're definitely the most supported here.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Their record against the top 6 since the start of last season reads: 11 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw - 34 pts from 14 games.

That is, if they played only top 6 teams all season and continued to win pts at the same rate, they'd win 92 pts.

In terms of league form alone, they are doing better than Barca 09-11, without having the same individual quality at that (and arguably the quality of the greatest PL sides too).

That's astonishing. I don't feel their team is at that level (Barcelonas) yet their league results are absolutely incredible. The ease with which they're despatching top teams is also something.

Didn't see this coming to be honest. With their wealth they were always going to be one of the major forced but I didn't think they'd run away with things so quickly after Peps appointment. The way the likes of Sterling, Sane, Jesus (prior to this season), Stones, Laporte etc have performed and improved over the last year, and the team has progressed as a unit has been extremely impressive.

 

[11101]

That's astonishing. I don't feel their team is at that level (Barcelonas) yet their league results are absolutely incredible. The ease with which they're despatching top teams is also something.

Didn't see this coming to be honest. With their wealth they were always going to be one of the major forced but I didn't think they'd run away with things so quickly after Peps appointment. The way the likes of Sterling, Sane, Jesus (prior to this season), Stones, Laporte etc have performed and improved over the last year, and the team has progressed as a unit has been extremely impressive.

I think they're still benefiting from a relative weakness in the league/European football. That Barcelona team had it pretty easy in the league but they twice beat arguably the best team the Premier League has ever seen, and once Madrid got hold of Ronaldo they also went from strength to strength. I'd say all three of those teams would comfortably beat anyone in world football today.

I've said in other threads but i don't think the massive outlay tells the whole story. It's not their ability to go out in a single window and spend obscene money. It's their ability to do it every single window without regard for club finances. If we buy a 50m right winger that's it for that position. If they're a dud it would reduce the pot available for other positions and we would need to decide if replacing them was a higher priority than any of the other potential purchases. Liverpool need another centre back of Van Dijk's level, but they can't just go and buy another after spending 75m on him. Likewise if he had turned out to be no better than what they already had then they wouldn't have been able to go out and buy someone else last summer either. None of that applies to City. It doesn't matter if its to replace a poor purchase, or whether it's just someone likes Mahrez who comes available and offers a slightly different option on what they already have. They can just go and buy them without consequence. It's allowed them to amass a ridiculous squad where they can almost field two XIs of near identical quality.

It's like any other business. It's a hell of a lot easier if you have unlimited backing and can just keep going at it whilst the rest of the competition has to consider the company finances.

 

[jontheblue]

I think they're still benefiting from a relative weakness in the league/European football. That Barcelona team had it pretty easy in the league but they twice beat arguably the best team the Premier League has ever seen, and once Madrid got hold of Ronaldo they also went from strength to strength. I'd say all three of those teams would comfortably beat anyone in world football today.

I've said in other threads but i don't think the massive outlay tells the whole story. It's not their ability to go out in a single window and spend obscene money. It's their ability to do it every single window without regard for club finances. If we buy a 50m right winger that's it for that position. If they're a dud it would reduce the pot available for other positions and we would need to decide if replacing them was a higher priority than any of the other potential purchases. Liverpool need another centre back of Van Dijk's level, but they can't just go and buy another after spending 75m on him. Likewise if he had turned out to be no better than what they already had then they wouldn't have been able to go out and buy someone else last summer either. None of that applies to City. It doesn't matter if its to replace a poor purchase, or whether it's just someone likes Mahrez who comes available and offers a slightly different option on what they already have. They can just go and buy them without consequence. It's allowed them to amass a ridiculous squad where they can almost field two XIs of near identical quality.

It's like any other business. It's a hell of a lot easier if you have unlimited backing and can just keep going at it whilst the rest of the competition has to consider the company finances.

That was true in the early days, indeed very true, but who is it in the last 4 or 5 years that we have bought for say, more than £10M, that has been a flop and/or who we have simply replaced ?

Nolito we bought for £16M and sold for £6M, Managala of course and you could throw Bravo in the mix (although actually, he's still with us and did a really good job as our second GK last year, arguably playing better for us than in his first year here)

Apart from them, you've got to go back to Negredo (who we actually sold for a profit), Javi Garcia who we lost about 2-3M on and Jovetic bought in 2013, sold in 2017, lost 10M

Meanwhile, how many of our current squad could we sell at a profit ? And how many of United's players ?

These statements were applicable 10 years ago but by modern football standards, our buys over the last 5 years look pretty sound

 

[VorZakone]

Their record against the top 6 since the start of last season reads: 11 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw - 34 pts from 14 games.

That is, if they played only top 6 teams all season and continued to win pts at the same rate, they'd win 92 pts.

In terms of league form alone, they are doing better than Barca 09-11, without having the same individual quality at that (and arguably the quality of the greatest PL sides too).

That record against the top 6 is ridicilous. While others hope to nick a draw away from home, City goes straight for the win.

 

[11101]

That was true in the early days, indeed very true, but who is it in the last 4 or 5 years that we have bought for say, more than £10M, that has been a flop and/or who we have simply replaced ?

Nolito we bought for £16M and sold for £6M, Managala of course and you could throw Bravo in the mix (although actually, he's still with us and did a really good job as our second GK last year, arguably playing better for us than in his first year here)

Apart from them, you've got to go back to Negredo (who we actually sold for a profit), Javi Garcia who we lost about 2-3M on and Jovetic bought in 2013, sold in 2017, lost 10M

Meanwhile, how many of our current squad could we sell at a profit ? And how many of United's players ?

These statements were applicable 10 years ago but by modern football standards, our buys over the last 5 years look pretty sound

Now the process at City has become fairly settled it's less the duds and more the doubling up on players. Not one of these players were bought for positions that particularly needed replacing:

Jesus - had Aguero
Sane - had Sterling
Mahrez - had the now right sided Sterling
Bernardo Silva - had David Silva / De Bruyne
Gundogan - had Fernandinho / De Bruyne
Walker / Danilo - both bought together
Stones - had Otamendi
Laporte - had Stones / Kompany
Ederson - had Bravo, an arguable one

That's ~500m on what, other than Sane, Walker and Laporte, is effectively the second string team.


Pep's style has always been very physically taxing. In Spain and Germany it was less of an issue with his preferred XI as they could ease off in many games, but he came badly unstuck in his first season at City. The response has been to go out and buy two 1st teams that can be used interchangeably. No other club can come close to that, even our 2008-2009 squad had a clear drop off in quality to the subs.

Buying two top players for every position is literally what you do in Football Manager but i cant remember ever seeing it happen in real life before.

 

[Andrew Wolf]

Now the process at City has become fairly settled it's less the duds and more the doubling up on players. Not one of these players were bought for positions that particularly needed replacing:

Jesus - had Aguero
Sane - had Sterling
Mahrez - had the now right sided Sterling
Bernardo Silva - had David Silva / De Bruyne
Gundogan - had Fernandinho / De Bruyne
Walker / Danilo - both bought together
Stones - had Otamendi
Laporte - had Stones / Kompany
Ederson - had Bravo, an arguable one

That's ~500m on what, other than Sane, Walker and Laporte, is effectively the second string team.


Pep's style has always been very physically taxing. In Spain and Germany it was less of an issue with his preferred XI as they could ease off in many games, but he came badly unstuck in his first season at City. The response has been to go out and buy two 1st teams that can be used interchangeably. No other club can come close to that, even our 2008-2009 squad had a clear drop off in quality to the subs.

Buying two top players for every position is literally what you do in Football Manager but i cant remember ever seeing it happen in real life before.

Is it not quite easy to do the same for United though? Especially when you consider that the majority of your recent signings are now sitting on the bench or not in the squad?

Sanchez - Had Martial/Rashford
Matic - Had Fellaini/Herrera
Fred - Had Matic/Fellaini/Herrera
Bailly - Had Smalling/Jones/Rojo
Lindelof - Had Bailly/Smalling/Jones/Rojo

Football is a squad game now where you potentially play 60+ games a season if you are successful. United have tried the same and failed miserably because the quality they have signed is not good enough.

City only have 2 strikers now. Jesus at £27m is a no brainer. Kompany was/is injury prone and Otamendi and Stones were liabilities according to many on here and let's not get started on Bravo who was openly written off as a clown. Also, Walker and Danilo were bought because City lost 4 full backs in Summer 2017. Zabaleta, Sagna and Clichy's contracts ended and Kolarov was sold.

 

[SER19]

Empithad getting an extra 10,000 seats according to Bluemoon. Consultations with supporters underway.


Ederson, Walker, Mendy, LaPorte, Sane, Bernardo Silva, Mahrez, Foden are new players

They bought a lot better than Utd and have an outstanding coach. If spending money is cheating then what are Fulham, Bournemouth, Wolves, Liverpool, Everton, Utd doing?

I didn’t say spending money was cheating and I didn’t say they didn’t have new players. Not sure on the point of your post.

Theyre cheats. They’ve bought not only the title but the huge distance between them and other teams. They will likely get 100 points again this year. We’re supposed to sit back and pretend it’s because they’re so much better than the phenomenal teams that went before them but didn’t do the same? They’ve absolutely destroyed 90% of teams in the country for a decade. (While covering up their expenses) They should be winning it every year. We’re in a position where only winning the title would be a disappointing season for a nothing plastic club. If the integrity of the game and fairness isn’t destroyed by that then it never will be.

 

[Denis_unwise]

Broken the league. Gap between them and others is stupid really. Consider the derby and that their best players were all there before Guardiola then the amount he spent- why shouldn't they be winning it easily.
And did it by cheating

They looked pretty ordinary against us on Sunday to be honest. The first 2 goals were down to unforced errors on our part. The third could have been easily stopped by most teams. We were rarely troubled at any other part in the game. The trouble was that we put out our worst MF in over 2 decades. We were also coming off difficult a run of away fixtures. On the other hand City have had a very easy fixture list so far. They've played most of the teams who will finish in the bottom 6, most of these at home. They played Arsenal away at a good time going off it was Emery's first game. Also faced Spurs at the best time as they had major injury issues. They were also gifted the winner in this game. The 2 difficult away games they had have ended in draws.

I didn't think they would be as lucky as last season but sadly this season seems to be going much the way of last. There seems to be no will in the Ref's to stamp out their tactical fouling. They are very much loathe to book their players let alone give red cards. Kompany, Sane & Fernandinho have all escaped red's in the last few weeks. Many teams seem to be accepting a loss rather than trying to actually play.

 

[SER19]

They looked pretty ordinary against us on Sunday to be honest. The first 2 goals were down to unforced errors on our part. The third could have been easily stopped by most teams. We were rarely troubled at any other part in the game. The trouble was that we put out our worst MF in over 2 decades. We were also coming off difficult a run of away fixtures. On the other hand City have had a very easy fixture list so far. They've played most of the teams who will finish in the bottom 6, most of these at home. They played Arsenal away at a good time going off it was Emery's first game. Also faced Spurs at the best time as they had major injury issues. They were also gifted the winner in this game. The 2 difficult away games they had have ended in draws.

I didn't think they would be as lucky as last season but sadly this season seems to be going much the way of last. There seems to be no will in the Ref's to stamp out their tactical fouling. They are very much loathe to book their players let alone give red cards. Kompany, Sane & Fernandinho have all escaped red's in the last few weeks. Many teams seem to be accepting a loss rather than trying to actually play.

They were in second gear to be fair. It felt like they didn’t want to win by loads to keep up a pretence of the league being remotely competitive. All they’ve to do is show up against most teams in the league. They’re on about 70 points before season starts and now are just brushing aside decent European sides. It’s utterly pointless to watch.

 

[SER19]

Is it not quite easy to do the same for United though? Especially when you consider that the majority of your recent signings are now sitting on the bench or not in the squad?

Sanchez - Had Martial/Rashford
Matic - Had Fellaini/Herrera
Fred - Had Matic/Fellaini/Herrera
Bailly - Had Smalling/Jones/Rojo
Lindelof - Had Bailly/Smalling/Jones/Rojo

Football is a squad game now where you potentially play 60+ games a season if you are successful. United have tried the same and failed miserably because the quality they have signed is not good enough.

City only have 2 strikers now. Jesus at £27m is a no brainer. Kompany was/is injury prone and Otamendi and Stones were liabilities according to many on here and let's not get started on Bravo who was openly written off as a clown. Also, Walker and Danilo were bought because City lost 4 full backs in Summer 2017. Zabaleta, Sagna and Clichy's contracts ended and Kolarov was sold.

Could do the same with every other team in the league too I guess? Stop lying to yourself, Uniteds decline post Ferguson was widely anticipated and the club needs years to reset and rebuild. They should be doing better but it’s nothing to do with city having a half billion pound subs bench.

 

[DanClancy]

They looked pretty ordinary against us on Sunday to be honest. The first 2 goals were down to unforced errors on our part. The third could have been easily stopped by most teams. We were rarely troubled at any other part in the game. The trouble was that we put out our worst MF in over 2 decades. We were also coming off difficult a run of away fixtures. On the other hand City have had a very easy fixture list so far. They've played most of the teams who will finish in the bottom 6, most of these at home. They played Arsenal away at a good time going off it was Emery's first game. Also faced Spurs at the best time as they had major injury issues. They were also gifted the winner in this game. The 2 difficult away games they had have ended in draws.

I didn't think they would be as lucky as last season but sadly this season seems to be going much the way of last. There seems to be no will in the Ref's to stamp out their tactical fouling. They are very much loathe to book their players let alone give red cards. Kompany, Sane & Fernandinho have all escaped red's in the last few weeks. Many teams seem to be accepting a loss rather than trying to actually play.

Agree with a lot of that. City didn't overwork De Gea on Sunday, the goal were very poor goals to concede from our point of view. United defended reasonably well and kept the shape of the side was fine.

 

[11101]

Is it not quite easy to do the same for United though? Especially when you consider that the majority of your recent signings are now sitting on the bench or not in the squad?

Sanchez - Had Martial/Rashford
Matic - Had Fellaini/Herrera
Fred - Had Matic/Fellaini/Herrera
Bailly - Had Smalling/Jones/Rojo
Lindelof - Had Bailly/Smalling/Jones/Rojo

Football is a squad game now where you potentially play 60+ games a season if you are successful. United have tried the same and failed miserably because the quality they have signed is not good enough.

City only have 2 strikers now. Jesus at £27m is a no brainer. Kompany was/is injury prone and Otamendi and Stones were liabilities according to many on here and let's not get started on Bravo who was openly written off as a clown. Also, Walker and Danilo were bought because City lost 4 full backs in Summer 2017. Zabaleta, Sagna and Clichy's contracts ended and Kolarov was sold.

Come on now, look at the names you listed compared to those City players.

Martial - fair enough, he could be brilliant.
Rashford - could be good but looking far more like Welbeck Mk.2 lately
Fellaini - never been good enough
Herrera - likely always a squad player
Matic - old and past it
Smalling - still here by virtue of getting injured less than the others
Jones - still here i suspect because we've forgotten he's here
Rojo - has managed 9 games in the last 2 seasons

Every team in the league can put 22 players on the pitch but only one can field two equally good teams out of that.

It's not even about what United have done compared to what City have done. It's City v everyone else in the league. Some years we spend big, some years we dont. Some years Liverpool do, some they dont. Same for Chelsea, Arsenal, and everyone else. City spend big every single window.

 

[Denis_unwise]

They were in second gear to be fair. It felt like they didn’t want to win by loads to keep up a pretence of the league being remotely competitive. All they’ve to do is show up against most teams in the league. They’re on about 70 points before season starts and now are just brushing aside decent European sides. It’s utterly pointless to watch.

Pep doesn't want the league to be competitive. He want's to be more dominant season on season. If they could have put 4, 5, 6 past us they would have. It's their biggest game of the season & they also would have wanted revenge for last years result at their place. We kept our shape better after the first goal & denied them space. This resulted in them passing backwards & sideways alot.

On your second point i think it's more a case of teams not showing up against them rather than the other way round. We went into the game fielding a diabolical combination of CB's & MF. Matic & Herrera both had possibly their worst games in a Utd shirt. They scored 3 goals which were down to our errors. You have to wonder why teams are conceding so many goals when they are putting out better organized teams.

I fully expect them to be found out when we get later into the CL. They have already been beaten by Lyon at home. They also had a fortunate result in Germany. Shakhtar are a shadow of the team they were last season.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

They looked pretty ordinary against us on Sunday to be honest. The first 2 goals were down to unforced errors on our part. The third could have been easily stopped by most teams. We were rarely troubled at any other part in the game. The trouble was that we put out our worst MF in over 2 decades. We were also coming off difficult a run of away fixtures. On the other hand City have had a very easy fixture list so far. They've played most of the teams who will finish in the bottom 6, most of these at home. They played Arsenal away at a good time going off it was Emery's first game. Also faced Spurs at the best time as they had major injury issues. They were also gifted the winner in this game. The 2 difficult away games they had have ended in draws.

I didn't think they would be as lucky as last season but sadly this season seems to be going much the way of last. There seems to be no will in the Ref's to stamp out their tactical fouling. They are very much loathe to book their players let alone give red cards. Kompany, Sane & Fernandinho have all escaped red's in the last few weeks. Many teams seem to be accepting a loss rather than trying to actually play.

They don't need to be particularly special to beat nearly all the sides in this league. They weren't great vs us either, and we huffed and we puffed but couldn't match them, and that was at home.

They were clearly superior to you without ever really having to turn the screw. I saw two teams who were a class apart, perhaps having Pogba in there would have made a difference but honestly I think the gap in technical ability was too significant for a single player to have changed that much.

Also, you're massively playing down their results. Beating Spurs and Arsenal away are great results regardless of circumstances. You say their two difficult away games have ended in draws .. do you really think Wolves away is harder than a Spurs side with a few injuries? Getting a draw at Anfield is a great result, every other side in the league bites your hand off if offered that. They missed a penalty late on in that game as well. On another day vs Wolves they convert one of their many chances and win, statistically even if you dominate every match you'll get unlucky here or there.

No team can win every game, a couple of draws here or there is going to happen. They aren't 'lucky', they are superior in every part of the field and have the edge in pretty much every league game they play, even the ones when they aren't on song. Teams aren't accepting a loss (we went at them, pressed extremely hard, battled, so did Arsenal) they're just getting beat by a team who have players with superb technique who are brilliantly coached. I'm sure a few of the bottom half turn up expecting to lose, but certainly not the top 6.

You don't get over 100+ points and look like repeating it all over again by being fortunate or overestimated. They earned that respect and fear just like Ferguson's teams did. On Sunday they were 'ordinary' yet still utterly dominated the ball, score 3 goals and restrict you to basically nothing.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Pep doesn't want the league to be competitive. He want's to be more dominant season on season. If they could have put 4, 5, 6 past us they would have. It's their biggest game of the season & they also would have wanted revenge for last years result at their place. We kept our shape better after the first goal & denied them space. This resulted in them passing backwards & sideways alot.

On your second point i think it's more a case of teams not showing up against them rather than the other way round. We went into the game fielding a diabolical combination of CB's & MF. Matic & Herrera both had possibly their worst games in a Utd shirt. They scored 3 goals which were down to our errors. You have to wonder why teams are conceding so many goals when they are putting out better organized teams.

I fully expect them to be found out when we get later into the CL. They have already been beaten by Lyon at home. They also had a fortunate result in Germany. Shakhtar are a shadow of the team they were last season.

It's the CL group stages, one terrible night isn't a sign of anything. They absolutely deserved to win in Germany and were denied a stonewall penalty.

I don't think they'll get 'found out' in the CL. They may well lose, but that's because the likelihood is they will play one of Europe's elite, and in a two legged tie against these sides anything can happen.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I remember when the narrative was to beat a side like Barca or City you had to 'sit deep, not give space!! God why are these world class professional managers being so foolish!'

Now it seems like people think the magic answer to winning against these sides is to 'get at them', and the reason they keep winning is because everybody allows them to. Totally ignoring the fact that actually most sides against City do try to press high and take the game to them, but City are simply a very well coached side who have the tools to play against most styles.

 

[Denis_unwise]

They were clearly superior to you without ever really having to turn the screw.

Also, you're massively playing down their results. Beating Spurs and Arsenal away are great results regardless of circumstances. You say their two difficult away games have ended in draws .. do you really think Wolves away is harder than a Spurs side with a few injuries?

On Sunday they were 'ordinary' yet still utterly dominated the ball, score 3 goals and restrict you to basically nothing.

They tried to turn the screw but we stopped them. This after putting out 1 of our worst teams of the last 2 decades. Don't see what you don't get here.

Wolves put up a better showing against City than you did as they didn't commit stupid unforced errors i.e Trippier. You were also missing key players though.

We gifted them all 3 goals on Sunday. When we tried to play we got a penalty & should have kicked on like we did last season. We instead decided to slow things down (probably hoping to nick a set-piece goal)

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Empithad getting an extra 10,000 seats according to Bluemoon. Consultations with supporters underway.


Ederson, Walker, Mendy, LaPorte, Sane, Bernardo Silva, Mahrez, Foden are new players

They bought a lot better than Utd and have an outstanding coach. If spending money is cheating then what are Fulham, Bournemouth, Wolves, Liverpool, Everton, Utd doing?

They are staying within the confines of FFP.
There isn’t extra money available to them above what they generate, so they can’t pretend that extra money has come through fake sponsorships.

 

[SER19]

Pep doesn't want the league to be competitive. He want's to be more dominant season on season. If they could have put 4, 5, 6 past us they would have. It's their biggest game of the season & they also would have wanted revenge for last years result at their place. We kept our shape better after the first goal & denied them space. This resulted in them passing backwards & sideways alot.

On your second point i think it's more a case of teams not showing up against them rather than the other way round. We went into the game fielding a diabolical combination of CB's & MF. Matic & Herrera both had possibly their worst games in a Utd shirt. They scored 3 goals which were down to our errors. You have to wonder why teams are conceding so many goals when they are putting out better organized teams.

I fully expect them to be found out when we get later into the CL. They have already been beaten by Lyon at home. They also had a fortunate result in Germany. Shakhtar are a shadow of the team they were last season.

Yeah i was just being tongue in cheek but i think most fans of both clubs expected city to win without fuss. Likewise when they play 16 other teams in the league. Its a sad state of affairs. I for one am reluctant to sit back and act like were seeing some admirable team. Theyre vacuous cheats that have fecked up the league for everyone and destroyed thd transfer market so much the mental idea of a super league actually looks like a good option for other clubs.

They have debased football and made it barely credible

 

[Naz]

I didn’t say spending money was cheating and I didn’t say they didn’t have new players. Not sure on the point of your post.

Theyre cheats. They’ve bought not only the title but the huge distance between them and other teams. They will likely get 100 points again this year. We’re supposed to sit back and pretend it’s because they’re so much better than the phenomenal teams that went before them but didn’t do the same? They’ve absolutely destroyed 90% of teams in the country for a decade. (While covering up their expenses) They should be winning it every year. We’re in a position where only winning the title would be a disappointing season for a nothing plastic club. If the integrity of the game and fairness isn’t destroyed by that then it never will be.

I know they are dominant but just because they are dominant does not mean they are cheating.

The difference is that their £350m spend under Guardiola has been productive whereas Utd's spend under Mourinho has been an unmitigated disaster

 

[Naz]

They are staying within the confines of FFP.
There isn’t extra money available to them above what they generate, so they can’t pretend that extra money has come through fake sponsorships.

The UAE sponsorship is c.£80m out of £500m, and the Etihad deal given it's a stadium and shirt deal is not significant (£67.5m).

City are properly managed and Utd fans are hiding behind excuses instead of getting their act together

 

[b20times]

They tried to turn the screw but we stopped them. This after putting out 1 of our worst teams of the last 2 decades. Don't see what you don't get here.

Wolves put up a better showing against City than you did as they didn't commit stupid unforced errors i.e Trippier. You were also missing key players though.

We gifted them all 3 goals on Sunday. When we tried to play we got a penalty & should have kicked on like we did last season. We instead decided to slow things down (probably hoping to nick a set-piece goal)

I don't agree with you, the three goals definitely wasn't gifts, the last one took the michael big-time. You've been brain washed by jose.

 

[SER19]

I know they are dominant but just because they are dominant does not mean they are cheating.

The difference is that their £350m spend under Guardiola has been productive whereas Utd's spend under Mourinho has been an unmitigated disaster

Hiding their spending, offshore accounts and breaking rules means theyre cheating. And clubs who stay within tbe rules with way smaller budgets and sell their best players to do so, lets say Southampton, get beaten 6-1. As they should, when playing a team that cheats. Lets not forget Southampton were a bigger club than city not long ago. The entire situation is a farce, without any sporting integrity.

Im not making a comparison with united, you are. And thats a separate discussion involving a lot more than what guardiola has spent which seems an arbitrary place to start anyway.

Considering an extraordinarily high percentage of your posts as a new member are defending citys spending, management and criticising 'united fans', im choosing not to discuss anything with you. Seems you have a....strong opinion about city.

 

[DanClancy]

I know they are dominant but just because they are dominant does not mean they are cheating.

The difference is that their £350m spend under Guardiola has been productive whereas Utd's spend under Mourinho has been an unmitigated disaster

City have spent nearly £550m under Pep.

 

[Kemizee]

Can't count. Think we have the biggest fanbase here by far, so maybe I've not taken note of it as much.
The Spanish club's jerseys are pretty common but I'll say ours is worn far more than any club.
I'm just surprised to have seen so many City fans in a short space of time.


A lot of Arsenal fans I know in Nigeria had lost interest in football the last time I spoke to them.

Yep. True. The bulk of City supporters here are Arsenal and Liverpool supporters who lost patience with the teams due to years of underperformance. United, Chelsea and Arsenal still dominate. I rarely see Spurs shirts here.