Wayne Rooney is a Manchester United great - so why is he not more loved?

adexkola said:
For average work rate over 90 mins? Yes. Literally. That is the definition. You exert more power sprinting than walking though, but over 90 mins the total effort for both is approximately the same.
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Which brings me back to the original point that average distance isn't the best indicator. As you imply the power exerted on your body sprinting is far higher than walking and jogging. It is also a much more desired quality in football; the ability to accelerate past a defender, to create a one v one opportunity by the drop of a shoulder. It's the reason Walcott is starting ahead of Giroud despite the latter being a far more refined player. Substituting a consistent medium paced jog for a fast sprint with a slower recovery is not that desirable.

Again I don't blame Rooney for this, he's lost a lot of his pace and is in the process of losing his ability to recover quickly from sprinting. That's not laziness at all, it's his body succumbing to age and a hell of a lot of Football. We don't call Giggs lazy for still covering amazing distances in his late 30's, just because he could no longer sprint.
 
The 2010 contract lark definitely soured many United fans on Rooney. I think fans would be a little easier on him just now if that never happened. Even before the last year or so of poor form, Rooney would be the first one to buck the blame if he or the team played poorly. I often thought a lot of fans were a little too harsh on him, even during the season when City won the league and he scored 36 goals.

Prior to 2010, he was often afforded a little more lenience from fans, because of how good we knew he was. Before the contract ordeal, he did seem to be quite vocal on his love for the club. He used to kiss the badge (yuck), and spoke very highly of the club as being the biggest/best in the world. He was definitely doing what the fans wanted, which made him a favourite, as well as his determination on the pitch. Post-2010, as the article suggests, Rooney has been purely business.

Rooney probably could have become a fan-favourite again had he done the usual posturing that he did pre-2010. His communication is often a little cold and limited. He's not really doing anything that can make fans want to love him. A number of our players are active on social media and are giving it the whole "c'mon United!" or "#GGMU" or whatever. I think little stuff like that helps build a bond with fans. De Gea has managed to get himself back on the fans side by using it effectively. Schweinsteiger has slotted right in to that as well, despite him looking like he'd be a lifer at Bayern. He talks about United like he's been here all his life. Rooney seems a little distant from the fans compared to a lot of the squad, so even when he plays well, I think fans struggle to feel a great affection for him, unless he really does blow the opposition away single handed. The last time he did anything like that was probably the overhead kick in the derby.

He is a United legend. He's won almost everything here, and scored an incredible amount of goals. But the 2010 ordeal seems to act as a divider between the two different Wayne Rooneys we've seen wear the United shirt. Both have been great, but one has been much less affectionate than the other. I never really stopped liking him, and the only issue I have with him is his form this season, but I don't think it is surprising that he's not a fan favourite. Fan favourites are not always the best players, but the ones who seem to have a great bond with the club and the supporters. Rooney doesn't, IMO.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Its perfectly possible to appreciate everything he has achieved and love what he has done for the club without liking the bloke. I respect him as a player and Utd legend but still wouldnt choose to share a drink with him.
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Funny that. Rooney seems like a nicer person than he once was when he was younger, yet that's when people adored him. Also, the players and staff of United always talk about how much respect they have for him and what a nice guy he is, but i'm pretty sure he won't lose any sleep in regards to you not wanting to share a drink with him, although we both know that's a big bag of bollox.


Getsme said:
He's only a legend if the fans make him a legend.
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Rooney sold the 6th highest shirts this season so someone must like him, despite not being as good as he once was.

http://blog.kitbag.com/top-selling-player-shirts-201415/

Jaqen H'ghar said:
He'll be a stats legend when he retires, but I don't think he'll be remembered as a legend in peoples hearts. Definitely not the player I'll be telling stories to my son about.

He is to be honest. Still don't like him. I'll remember him as the kid who never realized his potential, the biggest mistake Moyes made (by not selling him), the captain that got shoved down our throats every week and the obstacle our team has to play around. I find it hard to like a player like that, and I don't know what goes through the mind of those who do.
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Stats legend? Pretty sure stats and success is how a legend is formed, because lets be honest, it doesn't matter how nice a player is or seems, if he's shite, he will not go down as a legend. Rooney, despite not being as good as he once was, has given us a number of great years and is nearly our all time top goalscorer. As for your son, you won't have to tell him about Rooney. He'll find out for himself.

As for your point about being captain, you talk as if he give himself the captaincy and puts himself in the lineup every week - he doesn't.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're talking about CL games only, of course. The stats I posted were league games.
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Yeah, and he tops that list because it's ratio per game, not per minute, because he played every minute out of those 4 games unlike our other players so of course he will be on top.

You are intentionally ignoring things that both @acnumber9 and I have already said. At least admit your point doesn't stand, it's easier.
 
acnumber9 said:
This would be after weeks of Rooney's people leaking stories of him being unhappy. Coupled with his appalling lack of fitness and mid season sabbatical to get the excess lead out of his arse.
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All true. I'm not saying we should think well of him. I'm just saying that the whole 'pampered millionaires kicking a football around' thing is pretty repulsive altogether if you look too closely. Best not to think about it.
 
JPRouve said:
That is only due to the club, if Rooney leaves United for PSG, like Di Maria "his" shirt sales will also plummet, not because he will become unpopular but just because PSG sale less shirt than United.
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Why Rooney then? There's other players at United. And before you say Memphis and Schweinsteiger are on the list, it's always the case that new players get a lot of shirt sales. Rooney has been at United for 11 years and is still selling loads.
 
Rooney isn't loved because not only is he not offering the team anything but in fact he's a hindrance to the team.

With Rooney you could always rely on him to give the game his all. He may not score goals for a number of games but he would always put in a shift. He'd get up and down and he'd get involved. In fact we'd often complain that actually he was so busy trying to do everything that he wasn't in the right positions to affect our attack.

But these days he doesn't give his all, he doesn't get all around the pitch, he rarely even closes players down. And what we as fans won't accept is a lack of effort. Especially not from your captain.

It's a shame that his career is going this way because he is a United great. But the fact is he's fallen off the edge and sadly we are now seeing his rapid decline. He's never really looked after himself and as a result his decline is more rapid than it is for others.

And to think a lot of us United fans thought over his career he'd move back in to midfield and prolong his career.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Why Rooney then? There's other players at United. And before you say Memphis and Schweinsteiger are on the list, it's always the case that new players get a lot of shirt sales. Rooney has been at United for 11 years and is still selling loads.
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Because he is an attacker(people love to have attackers' shirts), I also think that for years he has been a constant performer(people don't want the shirt of a potential "loser") and the club showed Rooney's face everywhere. There is a constant with shirt sales, the players leave the sales stay stable.

Rooney isn't disliked, I think that he is mainly liked but shirt sales means nothing.
 
My problem with Rooney is not about his holding the club to ransom for better contracts. To be honest a footballer's career can end at any given moment, all it takes is one very bad tackle and its over so I don't begrudge them getting as much as they can. Also many footballers end up with no real income once their football days are over, especially if they have not invested wisely. Besides if rooney was not considered valuable to the club either on the field or from a marketing point of view, they would have no hesitation in dumping him.
My problem with Rooney is his media manufactured greatness. People talk about his incredible potential when he was young but to me it was more about expectation than potential. Many are convinced that he showed more potential than Ronaldo which, to me is laughable. Ronaldo was refining his technique as a youngster but he was doing and trying things beyond Rooney's capabilities. Rooney's strength was his work rate and apparent team ethic, it was never about a high quality skill level, however, he became the media darling at an early age primarily due to his very good performance in the 2004 Euros and since then he has been over-rated. His longevity at the club has allowed him to attain incredible stats but I maintain a number of good-very good strikers would have the same or better numbers if they were at the club for as long as he has been, during what we can consider as our heyday.
What I don't like is that other players have been hindered by the Rooney phenomenon. This all co-incided with the leaving of Ronaldo, the media basically convinced everyone including Rooney himself that he was then going to be the main man. Rooney, as a good a team player as he is, does not have the skill level to be a main man and putting him in that position I think has been to the detriment of the club's success and that is why he is not loved by me.
Many may find this strange but I always liked him as a person. He seemed humble and gracious and I will never forget a video clip I saw of him being pranked by Rio in, I think, a pet shop. He came across as a nice caring guy. However, in terms of football he is in my opinion over-rated.
 
markhrad said:
Many may find this strange but I always liked him as a person. He seemed humble and gracious and I will never forget a video clip I saw of him being pranked by Rio in, I think, a pet shop. He came across as a nice caring guy. However, in terms of football he is in my opinion over-rated.
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I don't disagree with this. In interviews, public appearances and everything else like that I've always thought that he seemed a really decent guy. Certainly much more normal and intelligent than a lot of people would expect or give him credit for.

I don't agree with what you said about his potential vs Ronaldo though. Even when Ronaldo was here, Rooney was a more important player for a few seasons - until Ronaldo really had his break out. Ronaldo often looked more impressive, but we were a better team with Rooney. That didn't last though, and like many I am now struggling to understand why he is even in our first team anymore.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exactly. There's no coincidence that the dislike for Rooney on redcafe has increased massively since his levels of performance have started to drop. We're even seeing a lot of comments that he's personally responsible for these standards dropping because he's somehow stopped trying. Much easier to loathe an under-performing player if you can convince yourself he's playing badly deliberately, right?

If it really does turn out he's finished as a United quality striker before he turns 30 that's a huge disappointment for all United fans and - no doubt - Rooney himself. Just seems weird to me that this seems to be also causing so many people to cast aspersions on his United career as a whole and/or dislike him more as a person. It seems weird but it's definitely happening.
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It's so refreshing to see other people have this opinion and that not everyone here is a fickle asshat.

The hating on Rooney has been so OTT ridiculous by some people here this season that I am reminded why I avoided the match day for as long as I can remember.

The other issue with Rooney is that he has a lot more mileage on his body at an elite level than most players his age do. Combine that with the style of player he has been, powerful and explosive. It's not exactly shocking we might be seeing him decline before he is 30. Rooney was playing first team football in the PL at 16. Most guys don't do that until they are in their 20's.
 
When Rooney was a great player he was an odious character. Nowadays he appears to be quite a nice bloke but nothing more than a bang average footballer.

Truth is he has never struck the right balance in a footballing and non footballing sense to fully endear himself into the hearts of the fans.

Cantona, Best, Keane for sure had less than perfect character traits but they somehow struck a chord with fans that Rooney hasn't and never will match.
 
Couldn't give a shit about his character. He should not be on the pitch and that is all I care about.
 
Nucks said:
It's so refreshing to see other people have this opinion and that not everyone here is a fickle asshat.

The hating on Rooney has been so OTT ridiculous by some people here this season that I am reminded why I avoided the match day for as long as I can remember.

The other issue with Rooney is that he has a lot more mileage on his body at an elite level than most players his age do. Combine that with the style of player he has been, powerful and explosive. It's not exactly shocking we might be seeing him decline before he is 30. Rooney was playing first team football in the PL at 16. Most guys don't do that until they are in their 20's.
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I wanted to use that as an argument and realized that C.Ronaldo or Messi have the same type of mileage, Ronaldo is never injured while Messi is regurlaly injured, Messi was also said to not really train or eat healthy things. I think that something is wrong with Rooney, maybe he played through injuries or his incredible physical abilities masked a cruel lack of football brain and now that he lost that edge, he is exposed.
 
Because of his status and now we to play him every games, in every possible positions and his loyalis
Love what he did for the club but right now, he seriously needs a kick in the ass.
 
JPRouve said:
I wanted to use that as an argument and realized that C.Ronaldo or Messi have the same type of mileage, Ronaldo is never injured while Messi is regurlaly injured, Messi was also said to not really train or eat healthy things. I think that something is wrong with Rooney, maybe he played through injuries or his incredible physical abilities masked a cruel lack of football brain and now that he lost that edge, he is exposed.
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I think Rooney has played a lot more games than Messi, not sure about Ronaldo. But to me Rooney's style of football has always been more physically demanding than those two players. The amount of running, physical duels, tackles. Also those two players have plays a huge part of their careers in a league that is no where near as physically demanding as the EPL.
 
Adisa said:
I think Rooney has played a lot more games than Messi, not sure about Ronaldo. But to me Rooney's style of football has always been more physically demanding than those two players. The amount of running, physical duels, tackles. Also those two players have plays a huge part of their careers in a league that is no where near as physically demanding as the EPL.
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Messi is two years younger and has played 50 less games.
 
JPRouve said:
Messi is two years younger and has played 50 less games.
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Are you sure you haven't counted his Barca B games? But in any case I think the physical nature of the EPL would also have an impact.
 
Good article actually. I think there are a few other factors as well. Because of his career with England and the comparisons with Ronaldo, there seems to be a sense of disappointment with Rooney. As if he should have been better.

Most importantly imo is his poor form over the last year or two which is only getting worse. As the article said, he held a gun to our head when we were most vulnerable so I honestly wouldn't mind if he is replaced in January. Why can't we do what he did? It's not happening as he's not so bad that we could get a replacement for him but I really don't have any personal affection towards him at all.

Only thing I'd say is that I never bought into the love in with Ronaldo either. He left, has done good PR and has used us to increase his wages. There are only a few players who I genuinely like and the two of them aren't among them.
 
Adisa said:
Are you sure you haven't counted his Barca B games? But in any case I think the physical nature of the EPL would also have an impact.
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The 50 games is an approximation, I remember that there is something like one season and half between them.
 
Adisa said:
Are you sure you haven't counted his Barca B games? But in any case I think the physical nature of the EPL would also have an impact.
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I've never liked that argument. It's hard to quantify how physical a league is compared to another. It's always struck me as Sky marketing hype.
 
JPRouve said:
The 50 games is an approximation, I remember that there is something like one season and half between them.
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Which probably fair. Rooney is a year and four months older.
Tyrion said:
I've never liked that argument. It's hard to quantify how physical a league is compared to another. It's always struck me as Sky marketing hype.
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The players from Spain always say it. Pedro said the same just last week.
 
Adisa said:
Which probably fair. Rooney is a year and four months older.
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Without injuries Messi could have more games in early 2017 and he will be 29, they have a comparable mileage.
 
JPRouve said:
Because he is an attacker(people love to have attackers' shirts), I also think that for years he has been a constant performer(people don't want the shirt of a potential "loser") and the club showed Rooney's face everywhere. There is a constant with shirt sales, the players leave the sales stay stable.

Rooney isn't disliked, I think that he is mainly liked but shirt sales means nothing.
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Of course it's definitely a factor. I mean, you don't walk into a shop with the intention of getting someone shirt you dislike, or do you? The top 10 players on that list are all the 'top players' in their clubs. Not just ability wise, but longevity and success, either at the current club or previous club.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
The typical well thought out response. Good one.
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You are using shirt sales as a way of saying that fans think he is a club legend, it’s a bizarre way of looking at things. Rooney is considered to be one of the best players in the world by many, he is also one of the most well-known faces at the club as well as the club captain. In addition to that the biggest buyers of named shirts are kids and day trippers.

Shirt sales means feck all when it comes to someone being a legend.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Of course it's definitely a factor. I mean, you don't walk into a shop with the intention of getting someone shirt you dislike, or do you? The top 10 players on that list are all the 'top players' in their clubs. Not just ability wise, but longevity and success, either at the current club or previous club.
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Rooney isn't disliked and his shirts sales are not an indication of the love he generates. Rooney is famous that's what indicates his shirts sales.

Edit: I'm being provocative but if we ditch Rooney tomorrow and replace him with Luis Suarez, Suarez will replace Rooney in that list.
 
JPRouve said:
I wanted to use that as an argument and realized that C.Ronaldo or Messi have the same type of mileage, Ronaldo is never injured while Messi is regurlaly injured, Messi was also said to not really train or eat healthy things. I think that something is wrong with Rooney, maybe he played through injuries or his incredible physical abilities masked a cruel lack of football brain and now that he lost that edge, he is exposed.
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I think that Rooney had a very good football brain (whatever it means). On the pitch, he looks an intelligent player, making the right decision.

The problem now is that his lack of technique is exposed, while also he doesn't have the physical attributes he had before. Add to that, being in very low confidence and we're seeing a truly abysmal player.
 
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to United. Essentially people don't like Rooney for that contract thing but still hold Ronaldo on a pedestal even though he left the club.
 
KM said:
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to United. Essentially people don't like Rooney for that contract thing but still hold Ronaldo on a pedestal even though he left the club.
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Yep. One stayed and gave his best years to the club the other became a Real legend. Go figure...
 
Rooney was my favorite playe until what happened in 2010, SAF press conference that week and how he looked heartbroken made me hate Rooney, but after he signed a new contract and after the season was done I loved him again but no where near as much as I used to.
 
KM said:
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to United. Essentially people don't like Rooney for that contract thing but still hold Ronaldo on a pedestal even though he left the club.
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I don't see Ronaldo as much as a legend of the club as Rooney is.
 
Spoony said:
Yep. One stayed and gave his best years to the club the other became a Real legend. Go figure...
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His best years? Hardly. Rooney's been half the player since 2010. Plus he stayed because we gave him ridiculous money. Not because he cared about United.
 
Andy_Cole said:
His best years? Hardly. Rooney's been half the player since 2010. Plus he stayed because we gave him ridiculous money. Not because he cared about United.
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He stayed. Whether a player cares is utterly irrelevant and only matters to teenage girls. And yes best years, unless he's being playing elsewhere for the last decade +.
 
KM said:
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to United. Essentially people don't like Rooney for that contract thing but still hold Ronaldo on a pedestal even though he left the club.
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Ronaldo isn't a legend of the club, he left us before his prime because the grass was supposed to be greener in Madrid.
 
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