Wayne Rooney is a Manchester United great - so why is he not more loved?

Spoony said:
He stayed. Whether a player cares is utterly irrelevant and only matters to teenage girls. And yes best years, unless he's being playing elsewhere for the last decade +.
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I was talking about 2010 onwards. David May also gave his best years for United is he a bigger legend than Ronaldo?

Ronaldo was our best player in our most successful years. He is without a doubt a bigger legend than Rooney.

We actually never won the title with Rooney being our rope scorer. Our last three titles was with RVP, Berbatov and Ronaldo as our top scorers. Rooney has just not been good for a long time. Perhaps it's the fault of Ferguson as well as after that contract debacle Rooney was never the same. Or maybe Rooney just stopped giving a rats arse after the Old Trafford faithful lost their love for him. End of the day though, he's no legend to me.
 
In short because his overall game has never been that great or anywhere near consistent enough anyway. He was compared to Messi/Ronaldo at the point all three were relatively young and we expected Rooney to become something similar. He never did. At his best, he was one of the best PL and European strikers but probably never at any time THE best. I mean strikers in isolation by the way (a number 9 role). He's obviously never been even comparable from a performance perspective to genuine number 10's despite playing there a lot. Given this, his contracts have been daft (the wages).

His contract business was also just stupid PR from his perspective. I actually have no issue with him wanting to leave and in the end, he got the massive contract he was really after but it's amateur leagues as far as endearing himself to the supporters.

His goals are impressive (the total number more so) and he's been valuable for that but people do overrate him for sure. The fact some think it's delusional to say that he's not in United's top 10 best players of all time, is a real laughable situation for me.

He's been an excellent player at times but he's never been in the top three players in the world. NEVER. He's been paid like he was. Our club is daft sometimes I guess.
 
If someone told me in 2004/5 that Ronaldo would become a far better player than Rooney, I would have told you to have your head checked. That's how much I rated him. What a player he was.
 
KM said:
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to United. Essentially people don't like Rooney for that contract thing but still hold Ronaldo on a pedestal even though he left the club.
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Very much so, as well as that the word legend has lost all its meaning when it comes to players these days.
 
The only mistake he made was criticising Fergie, however true his comments may be. I recall posting this before too. He did call United uninspiring or lacking ambition or something like that didn't he? Well, it was true and the same comments have been echoed in this forum by many posters. But the fact that he went public with it during contract negotiation made it an unpardonable sin. We have a player who made media comments, yet stuck with the club for this many years. On the other hand we've had a player who left us 'to chase his dreams' but still does the PR stuff good. How fickle, a fan mind could be!
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
The only mistake he made was criticising Fergie, however true his comments may be. I recall posting this before too. He did call United uninspiring or lacking ambition or something like that didn't he? Well, it was true and the same comments have been echoed in this forum by many posters. But the fact that he went public with it during contract negotiation made it an unpardonable sin. We have a player who made media comments, yet stuck with the club for this many years. On the other hand we've had a player who left us 'to chase his dreams' but still does the PR stuff good. How fickle, a fan mind could be!
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He didn't even criticise Fergie. He said the club was lacking ambition. If the club had ambition, they certainly weren't showing it. We lost two of our best attackers and the best we could do was hire a washed up scoucer with dodgy knees, an unknown French nobody that even his manager thought we were bonkers and some guy from Wigan who turned out to be good for some time. I personally thought the club was lacking ambition. Who can blame a player at the peak of his powers for thinking the same.
 
Wayne's concerns might be more believable if he hadn't admitted to the team that the whole thing was only a tactic to get a better contract*.

*According to John O'Shea in the club's official history of the 2010/11 season.
 
Minimalist said:
In short because his overall game has never been that great or anywhere near consistent enough anyway. He was compared to Messi/Ronaldo at the point all three were relatively young and we expected Rooney to become something similar. He never did. At his best, he was one of the best PL and European strikers but probably never at any time THE best. I mean strikers in isolation by the way (a number 9 role). He's obviously never been even comparable from a performance perspective to genuine number 10's despite playing there a lot. Given this, his contracts have been daft (the wages).
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A majority of his career, he played in Fergie's version of 4-4-2 mostly as 9.5 or something like that. Not a typical No.9 with others to play off him and not a proper No.10 with him orchestrating play. And not counting the fact of him being frequently shunted out wide or playing deeper to support that invisible midfield we had post Ronaldo flyby. Infact, I really believe the current set up is more favourable to him with Martial and Depay playing off him....if only we had a midfield...again!
 
SteveJ said:
Wayne's concerns might be more believable if he hadn't admitted to the team that the whole thing was only a tactic to get a better contract*.

*According to John O'Shea in the club's official history of the 2010/11 season.
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It is better for the team to believe that than Wayne thinks we aren't good enough to be his teammates.
 
I think it is likely that Rooney perhaps stays for another season (after this one) and then agrees with the club to move on. I think the club will want to give him the chance to do it on agreed terms rather than just selling him.

A player of his ability and everything he's given to the club deserves to bow out on his terms.

I guess he may go back to Everton? Or he'll go to the States as he's suggested before. But what kind of figure will he go for? Given everything he's achieved at the club and the records he's broken...
 
Adisa said:
It is better for the team to believe that than Wayne thinks we aren't good enough to be his teammates.
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True, I guess. It's just a pity for everyone concerned that he's now rarely good enough for his teammates.
 
KM said:
There's definitely a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to United. Essentially people don't like Rooney for that contract thing but still hold Ronaldo on a pedestal even though he left the club.
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Some people are intelligent enough to know that two peoples situations are not the same. Were Rooney from Portugal rather than Merseyside he'd have done likewise.
 
SteveJ said:
Wayne's concerns might be more believable if he hadn't admitted to the team that the whole thing was only a tactic to get a better contract*.

*According to John O'Shea in the club's official history of the 2010/11 season.
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Or easier to believe had he not got angry and confused when he was dropped because of those better players he wanted the club to sign.
 
Didn't Evra come out and say the team was unhappy that Rooney said the squad wasn't good enough but that all was forgotten?
 
How naive some of you if you think it's all about ambition. Does giving him 300k means we're ambitious enough that he signs the contract??

It's all about contract, fair do everyone wants money, but using united/saf/his teammates as an excuse is disgusting and unethical.

He's basically saying his teammates is not good enough, and mind-boggling timing when we just won the league and matching jose mourinho Madrid.

And you lap it as some kind of paragon of virtue for speaking out for the fans
 
Sky1981 said:
How naive some of you if you think it's all about ambition. Does giving him 300k means we're ambitious enough that he signs the contract??

It's all about contract, fair do everyone wants money, but using united/saf/his teammates as an excuse is disgusting and unethical.

He's basically saying his teammates is not good enough, and mind-boggling timing when we just won the league and matching jose mourinho Madrid.

And you lap it as some kind of paragon of virtue for speaking out for the fans
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He used that excuse in 2010. Chelsea had just won the league and our response to losing two class players was underwhelming at best.
 
Sky1981 said:
How naive some of you if you think it's all about ambition. Does giving him 300k means we're ambitious enough that he signs the contract??

It's all about contract, fair do everyone wants money, but using united/saf/his teammates as an excuse is disgusting and unethical.
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See, it's not either of the extremes. Yes, money did play a part, but that doesn't discount the truth of what he said. Yes, we were abysmal. Our transfers were underwhelming at best to horrendous at worst. Our problems were very obvious that it'd be a blatant red tinted glasses to not admit what he said being true to an extent. And he has admitted that it was the biggest mistake of his career. Time to move on...
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
See, it's not either of the extremes. Yes, money did play a part, but that doesn't discount the truth of what he said. Yes, we were abysmal. Our transfers were underwhelming at best to horrendous at worst. Our problems were very obvious that it'd be a blatant red tinted glasses to not admit what he said being true to an extent. And he has admitted that it was the biggest mistake of his career. Time to move on...
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If he's not under contract negotiations i would applaud him, but the moment he get a new contract he keeps quiet??

He won the whole lot with us, cl epl hattrick etc he should know better that sir alex ferguson is anything but lacking commitment.

What is it that rooney backers expect? Honestly. We stand here watching that dross everygame and happily make poems? Off course we're gonna bash him, with good money comes good responsibility, if he doesnt like the scrutiny he can go back to everton and be their cult hero.

And this is not about hate or anything, even everton fans would bash him if he serves that dross over there
 
Regardless of how many more goals he scores for United, I will never hold him in the same regard, or mention him in the same breath as Giggs/Scholes and co. Never.
And I hope he is nowhere near the first team tomorrow, but sadly, he will start.
 
How anyone can love Rooney after what he did in 2010 is beyond me. He completely ruined his relationship with the fans after that, for me. Hope it was worth the extra £££££ Wayne. Prick.
 
Andy_Cole said:
His best years? Hardly. Rooney's been half the player since 2010. Plus he stayed because we gave him ridiculous money. Not because he cared about United.
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His best form for the club arguably came at the last few months of the 2010-2011 season and he was fantastic at the start of the 2011-2012 season. So very harsh to say he's been half the player since then.
 
I think people put too much stock into a player loving the club. We as fans love the club, but most players do not. Players aren't going to play for free.

What Rooney did in 2010 was perhaps wrong from a character standpoint, but I'm not going to hold it against him he wanted a bigger contract and assurances with the team going forward.
 
Just turned to MUTV and all Rooneys goals are on. First one I see, that brilliant counter against Bolton with Rooney and Ronaldo.

3rd goal, an Away goal v Roma after not scoring in 16 CL games. :D
 
Rooney could have silenced all his critics IF he was performing. If he was scoring goals or leading us to titles or, you know, doing anything great, then no one would care what he was getting paid. If a player performs people are willing to turn a blind eye to almost anything. Suarez is an example; he is loved despite being a despicable person. But Wayne is not on that level. He, maybe, was for two or three seasons out of his long career at the club, but he's been just good, decent or shite on others.

His better seasons have not resulted in anything remarkable for the club. Maybe some would argue that it's not his fault, but it's a fact and not absolute rubbish like @Wade3 stated. Man utd. has had many influential players, the most recent being RVP, who dragged the team to an acheivement. For me Rooney has never had that.

Walters_19_MuFc said:
Stats legend? Pretty sure stats and success is how a legend is formed, because lets be honest, it doesn't matter how nice a player is or seems, if he's shite, he will not go down as a legend.
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He is shite right now.

Walters_19_MuFc said:
Rooney, despite not being as good as he once was, has given us a number of great years and is nearly our all time top goalscorer.
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I agree.

Walters_19_MuFc said:
As for your son, you won't have to tell him about Rooney. He'll find out for himself.
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He probably will, but he'll also find out that it was an era dominated by Messi and Ronaldo, that it was one of the mediocre periods in United history, and that there were other better players in the league and in our team during the same period. That should put things in perspective for him.

Walters_19_MuFc said:
As for your point about being captain, you talk as if he give himself the captaincy and puts himself in the lineup every week - he doesn't
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I never said LVG was infallible. That's a whole other topic.
 
Jaqen H'ghar said:
Rooney could have silenced all his critics IF he was performing. If he was scoring goals or leading us to titles or, you know, doing anything great, then no one would care what he was getting paid. If a player performs people are willing to turn a blind eye to almost anything. Suarez is an example; he is loved despite being a despicable person. But Wayne is not on that level. He, maybe, was for two or three seasons out of his long career at the club, but he's been just good, decent or shite on others.

His better seasons have not resulted in anything remarkable for the club. Maybe some would argue that it's not his fault, but it's a fact and not absolute rubbish like @Wade3 stated. Man utd. has had many influential players, the most recent being RVP, who dragged the team to an acheivement. For me Rooney has never had that.


He is shite right now.


I agree.


He probably will, but he'll also find out that it was an era dominated by Messi and Ronaldo, that it was one of the mediocre periods in United history, and that there were other better players in the league and in our team during the same period. That should put things in perspective for him.


I never said LVG was infallible. That's a whole other topic.
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Rooney has had great seasons for us when we were winning titles. You're most likely focusing too much on the goals department instead of looking at the overall package a versatile player like Rooney has given us. He never received enough appreciation in the Ronaldo era for example because we had Ronaldo.

Aside of that, it's not to be pinned on Rooney that in the seasons he scored many goals, we didn't win titles. In a sport where each team fields eleven players, it's foolish to pin so much on one guy. Our teams were simply not that great anymore because we neither had great academy talent nor managed any outstanding transfers, all the while the competition in the league got stronger than ever.

Rooney is garbage this year, there's no denying that, but constantly trashing his entire United career is getting old. It's highly disrespectful to a player who has accomplished so much.
 
Adisa said:
If someone told me in 2004/5 that Ronaldo would become a far better player than Rooney, I would have told you to have your head checked. That's how much I rated him. What a player he was.
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Ya, him for England in 2004, just unbelievable. No one could touch him. He used to just glide past players.
 
Wade3 said:
Rooney has had great seasons for us when we were winning titles. You're most likely focusing too much on the goals department instead of looking at the overall package a versatile player like Rooney has given us. He never received enough appreciation in the Ronaldo era for example because we had Ronaldo.

Aside of that, it's not to be pinned on Rooney that in the seasons he scored many goals, we didn't win titles. In a sport where each team fields eleven players, it's foolish to pin so much on one guy. Our teams were simply not that great anymore because we neither had great academy talent nor managed any outstanding transfers, all the while the competition in the league got stronger than ever.

Rooney is garbage this year, there's no denying that, but constantly trashing his entire United career is getting old. It's highly disrespectful to a player who has accomplished so much.
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Who's trashing his career? All I see is people posses off that a clearly underperforming player seemingly is going to play all season regardless of his form.
And on the subject of his career, as saf and keano always said, last season means nothing. When he retires there will be plenty of time to look back on his any achievements and contributions to utds cause, right now, what matters is his unacceptably piss poor performances for the best part of 6 months
 
He's scored some sensational and important goals but its interesting how often a goal drought has been mentioned on his goals show. So even though he's out of form right now, its hard to write him off just yet.
 
Look. We all saw Giggs and Scholes adapt their roles once they got towards the latter part of their careers. I fully believe we'll see Rooney adapt his playing style at some point soon, it's just going to take time for him to train himself to dictate games more in the final third. Admittedly he hasn't shown any signs of doing that recently, but im sure at some point most of you (and im including me in this) thought that Giggs was past it when he first was appearing at centre mid. With Rooneys experience and ability i expect him to turn it around. He's got the potential to have another 5/6 years playing at the highest level and a manager who is highly experienced at moulding players into roles that get the best out of them.
 
Wade3 said:
Rooney has had great seasons for us when we were winning titles. You're most likely focusing too much on the goals department instead of looking at the overall package a versatile player like Rooney has given us. He never received enough appreciation in the Ronaldo era for example because we had Ronaldo.

Aside of that, it's not to be pinned on Rooney that in the seasons he scored many goals, we didn't win titles. In a sport where each team fields eleven players, it's foolish to pin so much on one guy. Our teams were simply not that great anymore because we neither had great academy talent nor managed any outstanding transfers, all the while the competition in the league got stronger than ever.

Rooney is garbage this year, there's no denying that, but constantly trashing his entire United career is getting old. It's highly disrespectful to a player who has accomplished so much.
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I respect your point of view, and I agree that he played his part in our winning teams, as did many others. My point is that he was a good player in a team that's had it's fair share of good players. His longevity at the club is what allows him to challenge the goalscoring records, but his performances have been a mixed bag, and he's had many controversial moments. If he breaks the goalscoring record then fair play, the record is his, but there is no way he'll be held in the same regard as the legend whose records he broke.
 
iammemphis said:
Look. We all saw Giggs and Scholes adapt their roles once they got towards the latter part of their careers. I fully believe we'll see Rooney adapt his playing style at some point soon, it's just going to take time for him to train himself to dictate games more in the final third. Admittedly he hasn't shown any signs of doing that recently, but im sure at some point most of you (and im including me in this) thought that Giggs was past it when he first was appearing at centre mid. With Rooneys experience and ability i expect him to turn it around. He's got the potential to have another 5/6 years playing at the highest level and a manager who is highly experienced at moulding players into roles that get the best out of them.
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Both Giggs and Scholes took skills they already possessed and applied them to different roles where those skills were still applicable. Scholes already had fantastic passing, vision and the ability to operate in tight spaces. Giggs already had nimbleness and a flair for incisive first time passes and both players first touch was on point. They didn't suddenly develop an entirely new skill-set even if they did grow in to their new roles as time went on.

What skills does Rooney currently possess/display that make him suitable for a new role? His erratic first touch and passing (long standing features exacerbated in recent times), inability to function accurately in tight spaces and lack of success beating a man all make him unsuitable for roles within the front six. His finishing is still at a good level but that alone has not been enough to justify his role as CF IMO. Rooney doesn't need to adapt/evolve his game, he needs to completely transform it in-order to remain relevant in the face of his declining physical prowess. He needs to display skills that have been somewhat lacking over the last few years and were intermittent for a few years prior to that. Most of all he needs to find an acceptable level of consistency that, bar maybe one or two seasons, has never been a hallmark of his game.

Where his work-rate, will and tenaciousness once enabled him to compensate for dips in certain areas of his game, they no longer can due to the cruel nature of age and attrition. Maybe we could find a way to accommodate him and have him being productive but I can't foresee a solution in which he outperforms the players he is displacing from the team, let alone the raft of replacements we could bring in to actually improve the team. Maybe he picks up and proves me wrong but it would still beg the question, what the f#ck has he been playing at for the last few years and how long until he does the same again?

I admire your optimism (and envy it to a degree) but to me this demise has been on the horizon since 2010. Rooney earned a reprieve at various points since then but has done very little since the initial Moyes glow faded to justify such faith and patience and any glimmers of hope seem to be further and further apart.
 
Jaqen H'ghar said:
Rooney could have silenced all his critics IF he was performing. If he was scoring goals or leading us to titles or, you know, doing anything great, then no one would care what he was getting paid. If a player performs people are willing to turn a blind eye to almost anything. Suarez is an example; he is loved despite being a despicable person. But Wayne is not on that level. He, maybe, was for two or three seasons out of his long career at the club, but he's been just good, decent or shite on others.

His better seasons have not resulted in anything remarkable for the club. Maybe some would argue that it's not his fault, but it's a fact and not absolute rubbish like @Wade3 stated. Man utd. has had many influential players, the most recent being RVP, who dragged the team to an acheivement. For me Rooney has never had that.
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To me, what he is doing right now is irrelavant. Yes, it would be great if he was firing right now, but this thread is about why he is not loved as a great, and what he has done for the club in the past should be remembered more rather than one season that we're not even half way through yet. I mean, apart from this season so far, he has always given us very good numbers, despite not always being consistent throughout.



Also disagree about him not being a player to lead us to a title. Yes, Rooney has never been scored bags of goals that has led us to a title like RVP, RVN, etc, but he was/is our tallyman - a player who everyone needs in their team. Someone who was willing to do the dirty work, allowing the RVP's and RVN's of this world to shine. Ibra spoke about Rooney's unselfish play the other day. He said, "He runs a lot, he fights a lot, he sacrifices a lot. When he played with Cristiano Ronaldo all the work was done by Wayne Rooney but he didn't get the credit because Ronaldo was scoring all of the goals".
 
markhrad said:
My problem with Rooney is not about his holding the club to ransom for better contracts. To be honest a footballer's career can end at any given moment, all it takes is one very bad tackle and its over so I don't begrudge them getting as much as they can. Also many footballers end up with no real income once their football days are over, especially if they have not invested wisely. Besides if rooney was not considered valuable to the club either on the field or from a marketing point of view, they would have no hesitation in dumping him.
My problem with Rooney is his media manufactured greatness. People talk about his incredible potential when he was young but to me it was more about expectation than potential. Many are convinced that he showed more potential than Ronaldo which, to me is laughable. Ronaldo was refining his technique as a youngster but he was doing and trying things beyond Rooney's capabilities. Rooney's strength was his work rate and apparent team ethic, it was never about a high quality skill level, however, he became the media darling at an early age primarily due to his very good performance in the 2004 Euros and since then he has been over-rated. His longevity at the club has allowed him to attain incredible stats but I maintain a number of good-very good strikers would have the same or better numbers if they were at the club for as long as he has been, during what we can consider as our heyday.
What I don't like is that other players have been hindered by the Rooney phenomenon. This all co-incided with the leaving of Ronaldo, the media basically convinced everyone including Rooney himself that he was then going to be the main man. Rooney, as a good a team player as he is, does not have the skill level to be a main man and putting him in that position I think has been to the detriment of the club's success and that is why he is not loved by me.
Many may find this strange but I always liked him as a person. He seemed humble and gracious and I will never forget a video clip I saw of him being pranked by Rio in, I think, a pet shop. He came across as a nice caring guy. However, in terms of football he is in my opinion over-rated.
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Wow, thats a massive surprise coming from you. However, lets not forget the media attention Rooney got/gets is through no fault of his own. He also isnt the manager and doesnt get to pick himself for the starting XI every week. Therefore, this means the two reasons you mentioned for not liking Rooney is through no fault of his own.
 
”When he leads the side out the following day against City at Old Trafford for the 170th Manchester derby Rooney’s count will stand at 187. That is 11 more goals than Alan Shearer’s 176 at the same age, 13 more than Thierry Henry’s 174 and 35 more than the 152 scored by Robbie Fowler, the fourth man on the goals-at-30 list.

The number of strikes created by Rooney shows the team man he is so proud to embody. He has nearly double the assists of those made by Shearer at the same age: 90 to the latter’s 46. Henry created 74, 16 fewer than Rooney. Andrew Cole – whose 136 finishes places him sixth on the at-30 list – is next behind Henry with 49.”

Nuff said.
 
'Spaceman by Babylon Zoo charted at no. 1 on the UK Singles Chart in 1996, selling 420,000 copies in its first week. It became the fastest-selling UK single in over thirty years since The Beatles' "Can't Buy Me Love". "Spaceman" became a number one chart hit in 23 countries including the UK. As of November 2012, "Spaceman" was the 74th best-selling single in UK history, selling 1.14 million copies. Babylon Zoo have not had a single top ten hit since.'

Nuff said.
 
SteveJ said:
'Spaceman by Babylon Zoo charted at no. 1 on the UK Singles Chart in 1996, selling 420,000 copies in its first week. It became the fastest-selling UK single in over thirty years since The Beatles' "Can't Buy Me Love". "Spaceman" became a number one chart hit in 23 countries including the UK. As of November 2012, "Spaceman" was the 74th best-selling single in UK history, selling 1.14 million copies. Babylon Zoo have not had a single top ten hit since.'

Nuff said.
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Sorry bro, you're comparing 10 years of hard work against one fluke hit.

The comparison makes no sense.
 
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