What Now For Moyes?

I like pretty much everything Scholes has to say except the Moyes needing more time part but I've always had a soft spot for scholes, I think he was one of the best midfielders I've ever seen and possibly the best English one.

He was one of the very few who had the balls to be critical of Moyes methods, especially at the end.
If it's anyone who I feel should be integrated into the coaching staff, it would be scholes, he surely has a lot of knowledge to pass on.
 
Lol, I don't know why Gary's getting so much stick but there is no doubting that if Valencia could still cross we'd have done 10x better last season? Why do people think basing a game around crossing into the box is pre-historic? Madrid won their fecking CL doing it...

I'd trade every single No.10 we have, my left nut and my house for us to sign Bale and Ronaldo and go back to playing with wingers.
 
The problem with the likes of Neville and the rest of the class of 92, is that they're completely taken over by the whole romanticism of the Fergie era, the united way, 4-4-2, crossing etc etc. Thats all they've known since they were what, 12? Its understandable why they're so completely indoctrinated by it.

But its also for that reason that none of them should have any say in the future of the team, unless of course they prove elsewhere that they can do the job required, and at the top level. And yes, I include Giggs in that. This whole idea that he's the heir to the throne is just complete nonsense that will end up with us in another Moyes-esque situation, only this time it will be even harder to sack him.
 
Sam said:
The problem with the likes of Neville and the rest of the class of 92, is that they're completely taken over by the whole romanticism of the Fergie era, the united way, 4-4-2, crossing etc etc. Thats all they've known since they were what, 12? Its understandable why they're so completely indoctrinated by it.

But its also for that reason that none of them should have any say in the future of the team, unless of course they prove elsewhere that they can do the job required, and at the top level. And yes, I include Giggs in that. This whole idea that he's the heir to the throne is just complete nonsense that will end up with us in another Moyes-esque situation, only this time it will be even harder to sack him.
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Hypothetically, if Giggs got the job, stuffed it up, then got the sack, United could then finally properly move on from Fergie and the class of 92. That could be a good thing in the long run.
 
Blue always red said:
Lol, I don't know why Gary's getting so much stick but there is no doubting that if Valencia could still cross we'd have done 10x better last season? Why do people think basing a game around crossing into the box is pre-historic? Madrid won their fecking CL doing it...

I'd trade every single No.10 we have, my left nut and my house for us to sign Bale and Ronaldo and go back to playing with wingers.
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Nothing wrong in playing with wingers. Wingers are great. But just having them running down the wing and crossing it into the box over and over just wont cut it anymore. Football at the top level is just far to tactical for that to cut it anymore.

As for Ronaldo and Bale, they're hardly you're traditional touchline hugging wingers, just constantly crossing the ball into the box are they?
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
Hypothetically, if Giggs got the job, stuffed it up, then got the sack, United could then finally properly move on from Fergie and the class of 92. That could be a good thing in the long run.
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We should move on now. This should be the clean slate.

And sacking Giggs would not be an easy thing. Infact, it would be messy and horrible. PR wise, it would be a very difficult position for the club, that they should never put themselves in.
 
Sam said:
We should move on now. This should be the clean slate.

And sacking Giggs would not be an easy thing. Infact, it would be messy and horrible. PR wise, it would be a very difficult position for the club, that they should never put themselves in.
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Giggs managerial career could go the same way Sir Bobby's career did for all we know.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
Giggs managerial career could go the same way Sir Bobby's career did for all we know.
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If he goes and proves himself as a manager in his own right, then I'd welcome him back with open arms when the chance arrises.

Appointing him just because he's Ryan Giggs though would be mental.
 
Sam said:
If he goes and proves himself as a manager in his own right, then I'd welcome him back with open arms when the chance arrises.

Appointing him just because he's Ryan Giggs though would be mental.
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I think at the end of last season, giggs realized the enormity of the job when he was managing and he is glad to be learning from LVG now.
I think giggs has enough self awareness to know that he needs more experience before coaching at the highest levels.
 
Sam said:
If he goes and proves himself as a manager in his own right, then I'd welcome him back with open arms when the chance arrises.

Appointing him just because he's Ryan Giggs though would be mental.
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Absolutely. Looks like United have been burnt once by appointing a manager who wasn't properly credentialed, and they won't want to do it again. I'd love to see how he'd go plying his trade away from united. He have to be tactically astute.
 
ravi2 said:
I never was for his appointment but that was the game that had me actively vocal against him, just thinking of all those useless crosses raining down in the box is sickening.
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Exactly the same here, never seen such a lack of imagination on the pitch from us before.
 
I bet he is gutted he burnt all his bridges at Everton now as he would of had a good chance of getting the job if Martinez was to leave. Now he won't get a job as big as Everton for the rest of his life.
 
BigDunc9 said:
I bet he is gutted he burnt all his bridges at Everton now as he would of had a good chance of getting the job if Martinez was to leave. Now he won't get a job as big as Everton for the rest of his life.
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Even if he hadn't burnt his bridges I doubt he would be welcomed back at Everton when/if Martinez leaves. Considering the progressive training and football that Martinez brings, replacing him with Moyes would be a recipe for disaster.

It was quite telling that a number of Everton players last year took sly digs at Moyes' approach to games and training versus Martinez.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Even if he hadn't burnt his bridges I doubt he would be welcomed back at Everton when/if Martinez leaves. Considering the progressive training and football that Martinez brings, replacing him with Moyes would be a recipe for disaster.

It was quite telling that a number of Everton players last year took sly digs at Moyes' approach to games and training versus Martinez.
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I still think a lot of players are still grateful to Moyes despite the sly digs. While Moyes bum chum Kenwright is owner there would of been a great chance if he didn't disrespect the club.
 
BigDunc9 said:
I bet he is gutted he burnt all his bridges at Everton now as he would of had a good chance of getting the job if Martinez was to leave. Now he won't get a job as big as Everton for the rest of his life.
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Would Everton fans want him back though? I seriously doubt it..

In the run up to him getting the utd job, yous probably would of loved if he signed a new contract, it was all yous knew for years... However there is a proper brand of football being played at your club now so onwards and upwards for Everton.. Martinez is a good manager and if a bigger job comes calling in England/Spain then of course you club should continue with that type of manager.

It was a Blessing in disguise for Everton fans Moyes and Fellaini leaving..
 
Midnight1811 said:
The Manchester Air is about tradition. We've been used to a certain manner that it's difficult to adapt and change. In life change will be forced upon us, as it is now, it's just for us mancs it'll be a while to become familiar with it. That's all.
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Sorry mate - have to disagree. This mythical united way makes me laugh. It's based on having two managers for a long time, and conveniently ignores the periods we went through several. And if there is a United way it's to be ruthless when things don't work and to get rid of those holding the club back. The United way was to get rid of Moyes not to hang onto him. And that's the tradition I'm adhering to - as a Manc. I actually think this mythical United Way - something I'd never heard of until there were rumblings of getting rid of Moyes - is actually an age thing. Most people who talk about it are younger, most of us oldies remember when the club changed manager when needed without batting an eyelid.
 
Irish-Red-7 said:
Would Everton fans want him back though? I seriously doubt it..

In the run up to him getting the utd job, yous probably would of loved if he signed a new contract, it was all yous knew for years... However there is a proper brand of football being played at your club now so onwards and upwards for Everton.. Martinez is a good manager and if a bigger job comes calling in England/Spain then of course you club should continue with that type of manager.

It was a Blessing in disguise for Everton fans Moyes and Fellaini leaving..
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I personally wouldn't have after seeing what Martinez can do but I know Kenwright would of been more than happy to go back to Moyes.
 
He was in the running for the Galatasaray job wasn't he? That will likely be the 'biggest' offer he gets. He'll have to start from the complete bottom again, and I don't see a rise to power in the cards. Leeds, Reading, etc. would be his level at the moment. He's a broken man and he's been found out.
 
What I hate about last year is the complete denial about Moyes' ineptitude by sections of the press, former players and fanbase. A lot of the people who are now highly critical of Moyes went out of their way to protect him. Our squad had deadwood and underperforming players but a myth was created that Moyes was doing everything right. All the blame was shifted to the players. We were defending champions and we had enough quality to successfully challenge for a top 4 finish. Even more annoying was the abuse people got for criticising Moyes on the Caf. There was this mantra that anyone who was critical was a spoiled modern day gloryhunter who knew nothing about the difficult 70's and 80's. And the holier than thou "we stick by our manager no matter what because we are United, we have class and tradition".


We had an awful pre-season and it was already clear 2 months into the season where we were headed with Moyes. It was shocking that in January Fergie insisted we were in the title race and that Liverpool would drop out. I guess he had no choice but to back his handpicked successor. I think he was under pressure to appoint a British successor and he gambled on Moyes finding his feet without screwing us up in the process. At least the club have learnt and in the future no manager will picked on sentiment.
 
Rykker_4united said:
He was in the running for the Galatasaray job wasn't he? That will likely be the 'biggest' offer he gets. He'll have to start from the complete bottom again, and I don't see a rise to power in the cards. Leeds, Reading, etc. would be his level at the moment. He's a broken man and he's been found out.
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Loew and Klinsmann were their first choice I believe..

I don't think he would go to a club like that.. He wants to manage in the CL.. Strictly it's not his level but could get a job at a CL club ala Celtic, that type of club..
 
mic.m said:
What I hate about last year is the complete denial about Moyes' ineptitude by sections of the press, former players and fanbase. A lot of the people who are now highly critical of Moyes went out of their way to protect him. Our squad had deadwood and underperforming players but a myth was created that Moyes was doing everything right. All the blame was shifted to the players. We were defending champions and we had enough quality to successfully challenge for a top 4 finish. Even more annoying was the abuse people got for criticising Moyes on the Caf. There was this mantra that anyone who was critical was a spoiled modern day gloryhunter who knew nothing about the difficult 70's and 80's. And the holier than thou "we stick by our manager no matter what because we are United, we have class and tradition".


We had an awful pre-season and it was already clear 2 months into the season where we were headed with Moyes. It was shocking that in January Fergie insisted we were in the title race and that Liverpool would drop out. I guess he had no choice but to back his handpicked successor. I think he was under pressure to appoint a British successor and he gambled on Moyes finding his feet without screwing us up in the process. At least the club have learnt and in the future no manager will picked on sentiment.
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It was Fergie's "give Moyes time" speech that probably also contributed to Moyes' "invincibility" from blame as well.

I didn't see any fans here growing out of this trend until the sucessive home defeats against Newcastle and Everton. Then as the season went on, many other disappointing games like FA cup loss vs Swansea, Capital one cup semi-final capitulation vs Sunderland, that infamous crossfest vs Fulham, 0-2 vs Olympiakos, then successive home humiliations against Liverpool and City also turned United fans away from Moyes. By the time we lost to Everton away in which proved to be the straw that broke the camel's back, we were no longer defending him and many called for him to be sacked.

I personally don't think it'll be easy for him to get a job at a club challenging for Champions League football. Moyes effectively ruined his own reputation here.
 
Erebus said:
Sorry mate - have to disagree. This mythical united way makes me laugh. It's based on having two managers for a long time, and conveniently ignores the periods we went through several. And if there is a United way it's to be ruthless when things don't work and to get rid of those holding the club back. The United way was to get rid of Moyes not to hang onto him. And that's the tradition I'm adhering to - as a Manc. I actually think this mythical United Way - something I'd never heard of until there were rumblings of getting rid of Moyes - is actually an age thing. Most people who talk about it are younger, most of us oldies remember when the club changed manager when needed without batting an eyelid.
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Well said. 'Manchester air' what a steaming load of bollocks (as a manc) :lol:
 
justboy68 said:
Well said. 'Manchester air' what a steaming load of bollocks (as a manc) :lol:
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At first I thought he was being sarcastic.

I used to not have a problem with the phrase 'The United Way'. It makes me crinhey now.
 
mic.m said:
What I hate about last year is the complete denial about Moyes' ineptitude by sections of the press, former players and fanbase. A lot of the people who are now highly critical of Moyes went out of their way to protect him. Our squad had deadwood and underperforming players but a myth was created that Moyes was doing everything right. All the blame was shifted to the players. We were defending champions and we had enough quality to successfully challenge for a top 4 finish. Even more annoying was the abuse people got for criticising Moyes on the Caf. There was this mantra that anyone who was critical was a spoiled modern day gloryhunter who knew nothing about the difficult 70's and 80's. And the holier than thou "we stick by our manager no matter what because we are United, we have class and tradition".

We had an awful pre-season and it was already clear 2 months into the season where we were headed with Moyes. It was shocking that in January Fergie insisted we were in the title race and that Liverpool would drop out. I guess he had no choice but to back his handpicked successor. I think he was under pressure to appoint a British successor and he gambled on Moyes finding his feet without screwing us up in the process. At least the club have learnt and in the future no manager will picked on sentiment.
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Same here, I thought certain sections of our fans turning on the players who had been so successful for us was laughable. When one or two players turns crap overnight you blame them, when the entire squad does you have to look at the training, coaches and manager.

I expect better from LvG this season and still cant believe we stayed with Moyes as long as we did. I dont hate the man but i detest the attitude he had shown - "Its not my fault, its everyone else"
 
mic.m said:
What I hate about last year is the complete denial about Moyes' ineptitude by sections of the press, former players and fanbase. A lot of the people who are now highly critical of Moyes went out of their way to protect him. Our squad had deadwood and underperforming players but a myth was created that Moyes was doing everything right. All the blame was shifted to the players. We were defending champions and we had enough quality to successfully challenge for a top 4 finish. Even more annoying was the abuse people got for criticising Moyes on the Caf. There was this mantra that anyone who was critical was a spoiled modern day gloryhunter who knew nothing about the difficult 70's and 80's. And the holier than thou "we stick by our manager no matter what because we are United, we have class and tradition".


We had an awful pre-season and it was already clear 2 months into the season where we were headed with Moyes. It was shocking that in January Fergie insisted we were in the title race and that Liverpool would drop out. I guess he had no choice but to back his handpicked successor. I think he was under pressure to appoint a British successor and he gambled on Moyes finding his feet without screwing us up in the process. At least the club have learnt and in the future no manager will picked on sentiment.
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I don't agree. I remember the 70's and 80's and certainly did not think of us as 'sticking by the manager no matter what'. I think the main reason, as has been posted, is due to SAFS speech and united fans wanting to do what he asked. For me, that was the conundrum. I never wanted Moyes- I could see it being a disaster. (I never wanted Jose either), but I gave him silent time until no more could be taken. His statement of "I've got us to the quarterfinals" showed what an ego he was. And of course the negative comments in the pressers. In a strange way though, I think it may have done the club and the players a great service by giving them all a great big kick up the backside. Moyes is mainly to blame, but the seeds were sown before that.
 
Sam said:
Nothing wrong in playing with wingers. Wingers are great. But just having them running down the wing and crossing it into the box over and over just wont cut it anymore. Football at the top level is just far to tactical for that to cut it anymore.
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Exactly. For who still wonder why we couldn't cross last season, read this :
http://livelifeunited.com/david-moyes-alex-ferguson-philosophies-tactics/
It wasn't about Valencia has lost his legs, it wasn't about our strikers didn't know positioning. It was the zombie passing, static movement, dinosaur philosophy, predictable tactic.
I know it was just pre-season but compare to "Moyes' season" the diffrerence in our movement and passing are clear as day and night. Please don't tell me the managers have nothing to do with this.
 
It was strange that the press never turned on Moyes, When Fergie was in charge they couldnt wait to have a go at the club and fergie often predicting doom and gloom
 
Randall Flagg said:
It was strange that the press never turned on Moyes, When Fergie was in charge they couldnt wait to have a go at the club and fergie often predicting doom and gloom
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They felt sorry for him.

Bet LvG doesnt get the same care
 
OneUnited24 said:
They felt sorry for him.
Bet LvG doesnt get the same care
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Along with feeling sorry for moyes, quite a few of then wanted him to stay on just to make fun of us and see our club be run right into the ground.
Up to his last week here Idiots were still calling for him to have a second season.
 
Randall Flagg said:
It was strange that the press never turned on Moyes, When Fergie was in charge they couldnt wait to have a go at the club and fergie often predicting doom and gloom
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The narrative over the last few years has been "not enough homegrown players and managers". There did seem genuine hope that he'd do well.

If Moyes was foreign not only would he have been slaughtered after the first month his whole appointment would've been ridiculed. Look at what they did to Villas Boas at Spurs when he replaced media darling Redknapp.
 
Randall Flagg said:
It was strange that the press never turned on Moyes, When Fergie was in charge they couldnt wait to have a go at the club and fergie often predicting doom and gloom
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I think they all wanted him to stay on and eventually succeed because he was a British manager, usually friendly with the media, and if he failed, then United would fail which was also a plus for them I guess. Just a boring nice guy is what he was perceived as so no need for them to turn on him.
 
Ogden pretty much said on United in Press yesterday that they blamed Woodward for the ineptitude of last summer and went easy on Moyes. Until that Daniel Taylor article after the Fulham 'death by crosses' game there wasn't really any criticism for him yet everyone, including our own fans, wanted to throw our players, who have spent their careers fighting and winning in a United shirt, under the bus.
 
Erebus said:
Sorry mate - have to disagree. This mythical united way makes me laugh. It's based on having two managers for a long time, and conveniently ignores the periods we went through several. And if there is a United way it's to be ruthless when things don't work and to get rid of those holding the club back. The United way was to get rid of Moyes not to hang onto him. And that's the tradition I'm adhering to - as a Manc. I actually think this mythical United Way - something I'd never heard of until there were rumblings of getting rid of Moyes - is actually an age thing. Most people who talk about it are younger, most of us oldies remember when the club changed manager when needed without batting an eyelid.
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I fall into this bracket. You have witnessed more than me in that regards so I shall go onto your word.
 
LR7 said:
Ogden pretty much said on United in Press yesterday that they blamed Woodward for the ineptitude of last summer and went easy on Moyes. Until that Daniel Taylor article after the Fulham 'death by crosses' game there wasn't really any criticism for him yet everyone, including our own fans, wanted to throw our players, who have spent their careers fighting and winning in a United shirt, under the bus.
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Some things said about our players by posters on here were horrid. They were consistenly abused and blamed for Moyes shortcomings.
 
Sarni said:
Some things said about our players by posters on here were horrid. They were consistenly abused and blamed for Moyes shortcomings.
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Yep, it was ridiculous, and these are some of the same players they are quick to laud now that they look better under LvG. Some of the criticism/abuse some posters got for not believing in Moyes was equally awful.
 
Midnight1811 said:
I don't blame him for being biased. It's very, very hard psychologically to shunt away from being negative when it's about United, all through his life United has played a part, be it growing up, to when he was playing, to now having retired.
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Yeah it is understandable, just incredibly fecking annoying .. especially the England stuff cause it is actually affecting decision-making of the side. Ranting about united stuff is harmless.
 
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