World Cup 2018 & 2022 bids

Cal? said:
Well, the FA won't pay for it. If United are to pay for the expansion, World Cup or not makes no difference.
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the problem is not who'll pay or whether the FA might object, but more what to do with the railway and houses?
 
I'm sure I read something that Old Trafford would have to be altered somehow to accomodate two massive screens and something about the players tunnel being moved to the centre?
 
Portugal/Spain is a bit weird, as a joint organization would be the most unbalanced ever. 18 stadiums suggested of which only two are in Portugal (Dragão and Luz).

If the number of matches to each country is proportional to this then I don't know what Portugal is doing there, Spain could very well do it alone.
 
Dan said:
I'm sure I read something that Old Trafford would have to be altered somehow to accomodate two massive screens and something about the players tunnel being moved to the centre?
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The screens wouldn't be difficult, they had two in the friendly match between United and Juventus in 2008 to show highlights of the Champions League Final.
 
Dan said:
I'm sure I read something that Old Trafford would have to be altered somehow to accomodate two massive screens and something about the players tunnel being moved to the centre?
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kietotheworld said:
The screens wouldn't be difficult, they had two in the friendly match between United and Juventus in 2008 to show highlights of the Champions League Final.
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Two? I know they have had one a few times.

There is already a tunnel at the half way line, they just need to reopen it, no biggie.
 
phelans shorts said:
Two? I know they have had one a few times.

There is already a tunnel at the half way line, they just need to reopen it, no biggie.
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If they only had one then the people below wouldn't have been able to see it, there were definitely two.
 
I think Portugal/Spain have a reasonable chance because of the connections of our FA presidents. At least the Portuguese one is on this shit for years, they're all friends with each other, swap favours, a bit of a crooky environment. It's a political career in fact, and I'm sure he made a lot of "friends" through the years.

If the voting is based on objective reasoning it can go anywhere other than Russia or England, more likely England.
 
Sky reckons England's favourites. I'm not sure how that can be quantified at this stage - unless someone leaked inside information that is.
 
Apparently Vlad not making the trip is the reason why England's become favourites.
 
Rams said:
the problem is not who'll pay or whether the FA might object, but more what to do with the railway and houses?
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Aviva_Stadium.jpg


Not sure if you can quite see what they did with the rail line here. They basically built a platform above it meaning you enter the stadium at the middle level rather than the bottom floor. Dunno if this'd be achievable at OT but it'd only leave the problem of the houses which is half the job.
 
I think the bookies odds changing are from the English backing the bid, just like when England go into a tournament with really short odds compared to where they should be with people betting from the heart and not the head.
 
Sir Matt said:
Not sure Qatar would be a good alternative...since it'd only be one place you visit because everything is in one tiny area.
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Well that could be seen as positive - having to travel vast distance between matches in places like USA or Oz is a problem not a benefit.

The Qatar bid is mental and has a real 'wow' factor - the USA one is just plain boring.
 
Rood said:
Well that could be seen as positive - having to travel vast distance between matches in places like USA or Oz is a problem not a benefit.

The Qatar bid is mental and has a real 'wow' factor - the USA one is just plain boring.
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:lol: Someone's mental if he thinks fans are wowed by the potential of going to a 40-50 degree desert in a country that has to get started on building the capacity to host the World Cup sometime around tomorrow afternoon.

There are two factors competing here, and both are money. The question is whether "More money for FIFA" or "more money in a suitcase handed to FIFA voters by some friendly Qatari gentlemen" wins out.
 
Rood said:
Well that could be seen as positive - having to travel vast distance between matches in places like USA or Oz is a problem not a benefit.

The Qatar bid is mental and has a real 'wow' factor - the USA one is just plain boring.
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It's mental because it's all hypothetical. I'm sure it'll be fun to sit in stadiums that were built with forced labor. No one will want to go outside because of the heat. What else is there going to be to do in Qatar? Can't drink outside of fan specific zones. Can't be gay anywhere. With such a large community of expats, is there any real home support for the Qatari team?
 
Russia has other things on its mind politically after the latest wikileak revelations, so thats probably explains Putins bad attitude and sniping about Englands bid.
 
Excal said:
:lol: Someone's mental if he thinks fans are wowed by the potential of going to a 40-50 degree desert in a country that has to get started on building the capacity to host the World Cup sometime around tomorrow afternoon.

There are two factors competing here, and both are money. The question is whether "More money for FIFA" or "more money in a suitcase handed to FIFA voters by some friendly Qatari gentlemen" wins out.
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Dont worry, I have no intention of going there - but I am wowed by the idea of watching it on TV! They wont have a problem with building, they have the resources to sort it.

You are right about the money though - that is what is all comes down to at the end of the day.


Sir Matt said:
It's mental because it's all hypothetical. I'm sure it'll be fun to sit in stadiums that were built with forced labor. No one will want to go outside because of the heat. What else is there going to be to do in Qatar? Can't drink outside of fan specific zones. Can't be gay anywhere. With such a large community of expats, is there any real home support for the Qatari team?
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I am not really concerned about many of the things you seem worried about - the WC is not about beer or or being gay or tourist sights. Admittedly there are issues with the Qatari bid but they can all be solved with large wads of money of which they have plenty.
Forced labour is bullshit, people go there to work because they get better pay than in their home country. The Gulf countries are designed for the heat, you go from air conditioned hotel by a/c taxi to a/c mall/restaurant/stadium etc - millions of people live in the region and deal with it.

I guess you Yankees just cant stand the thought of getting beaten by the Arabs ;)
 
Rood said:
I am not really concerned about many of the things you seem worried about - the WC is not about beer or or being gay or tourist sights. Admittedly there are issues with the Qatari bid but they can all be solved with large wads of money of which they have plenty.
Forced labour is bullshit, people go there to work because they get better pay than in their home country. The Gulf countries are designed for the heat, you go from air conditioned hotel by a/c taxi to mall/restaurant/stadium etc - millions of people live in the region and deal with it.

I guess you Yankees just cant stand the thought of getting beaten by the Arabs ;)
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They are offered much higher contracts than they typically are paid. Qatar might not be as bad as UAE in regards to the abuse of labor, but it still suffers from unscrupulous companies exploiting immigrant work forces.

I suppose if FIFA is going to ignore the racism that is prevalent in Russian football they can ignore the persecution of gays/lesbians in Qatar.
 
Sir Matt said:
Not sure Qatar would be a good alternative...since it'd only be one place you visit because everything is in one tiny area.
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Mate, if you go to a WC, that's a huge huge benefit. Tiring all day travel, especially if it includes flights, isn't something most fans love doing...Especially the returns. The best places at Tournaments are the central hubs where all the fans pass through...with the fan zones, the tourist traps, the bars and what not...Remember most people are actually there for the football. The tourism's secondary. Not that you'd want simply just one area of course, but give me a small host country over a vast host country any day. Hence why if England don't get 2018 (and big up Becks and co for such an sterling effort) I'd be desperate for Spain/Portugal over Russia....In fact I'd rather it was hosted in Germany every other time anyway.
 
Mockney said:
Mate, if you go to a WC, that's a huge huge benefit. Tiring all day travel, especially if it includes flights, isn't something most fans love doing...Especially the returns. The best places at Tournaments are the central hubs where all the fans pass through...with the fan zones, the tourist traps, the bars and what not...Remember most people are actually there for the football. The tourism's secondary. Not that you'd want simply just one area of course, but give me a small host country over a vast host country any day. Hence why if England don't get 2018 (and big up Becks and co for such an sterling effort) I'd be desperate for Spain/Portugal over Russia....In fact I'd rather it was hosted in Germany every other time anyway.
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Of course. That's one of the biggest issues with the US bid for me. It's just such a vast country that travel times will be insane since they didn't pick a region to host it. I live in the middle of the East Coast and the nearest stadiums for the US bid would be 4, 5, 6, and 7 hours away.

England, Spain, and Portugal are all small enough that traveling isn't a huge problem but also provide enough variety to be interesting. Some of the trips in Spain can take a while, but it's no where near driving from NY to Chicago much less LA or SF.
 
Sir Matt said:
They are offered much higher contracts than they typically are paid. Qatar might not be as bad as UAE in regards to the abuse of labor, but it still suffers from unscrupulous companies exploiting immigrant work forces.

I suppose if FIFA is going to ignore the racism that is prevalent in Russian football they can ignore the persecution of gays/lesbians in Qatar.
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Unscrupolous companies exploit immigrant work forces all over the world - do you think it doesnt happen in your country?

Places like Russia/Qatar getting to host a WC can only help them to open up and educate the people on issues like racism and homophobia.
 
A vote for 2018 is also made with 2022 in mind. I doubt that many members will vote both England & USA - the countries are too similar, and not necessarily in a positive way. I just hope they lean towards us and not the Americans.
 
Rood said:
Unscrupolous companies exploit immigrant work forces all over the world - do you think it doesnt happen in your country?
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You're blinkered if you think that the exploitation of migrant labor in America is remotely similar to that of the middle east, especially since the exploitation in America is criminal in nature, (e.g. violation of laws against hiring illegal immigrants, minimum wage laws, etc.) In Qatar and the UAE, those governments actively support the exploitation through tactics such as seizing the passports of migrant laborers, jailing those who want to leave their jobs, etc.
 
Excal said:
You're blinkered if you think that the exploitation of migrant labor in America is remotely similar to that of the middle east, especially since the exploitation in America is criminal in nature, (e.g. violation of laws against hiring illegal immigrants, minimum wage laws, etc.) In Qatar and the UAE, those governments actively support the exploitation through tactics such as seizing the passports of migrant laborers, jailing those who want to leave their jobs, etc.
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You are right it isnt similar, in Qatar we are talking about only a few hundred thousand whereas in USA we are talking about millions and millions - your issues with immigrant labour are clearly far bigger.
Once you sort out all the shit in your own country then feel free to look down on others, until then I suggest you get off your high horse.

It will be a real shame for football if USA are given the World Cup again, but the economic angle cant be ignored so it may well happen.
 
Rood said:
You are right it isnt similar, in Qatar we are talking about only a few hundred thousand whereas in USA we are talking about millions and millions - your issues with immigrant labour are clearly far bigger. Once you sort out all the shit in your own country then feel free to look down on others, until then I suggest you get off your high horse.
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:rolleyes: Good job completely ignoring what I said, but I suppose it was nice of you to aid my argument by making reference the fact that our illegal immigrant population is about 36 times that of Qatar's migrant population, this in a country with a population 183 times that of Qatar.

Meanwhile, I'm sure all the extra migrants Qatar will need to import if they get the World Cup will be treated just as well as their current laborers...unfortunately:

Migrant Workers in Qatar Go Without Pay
Qatar a 'Death Trap' for Nepali Migrants
Filipino Who Dumped Baby Claims She was Raped by Qatari Employer
 
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