World Cup 2018 & 2022 bids

No i would prefer somewhere in the middle. FIFA is still corrupt and our bid was a massive failure - so was it worth it? Not for me - give me the World Cup any day.

In my opinion, had we gotten the World Cup, the issue of Fifa corruption would have slid right down the agenda. It would have been overlooked because they did us a favour.

I prefer what has happened - it opens more peoples' eyes to what is going on.

I think the wind is only beginning to blow. The selection of Russia and Qatar may just be the beginning of the end of FIFA...I hope so anyway.

UEFA have the power to totally destroy FIFA as it stands and reform it, if there is a will.

England should take the lead.

I totally disagree that the organizers 'own' the tournament. The cup belongs to all the members, not the organizers.

I never said they own it - but there's no doubting that the way that International football is structured, with the various regions coming under the Fifa umbrella, they have a integral role and position. You can't really separate the two...

It comes down to a point that I raised earlier - is the appetite for change and the invective towards Fifa as strong elsewhere as it is here? I suspect that other countries will be looking at us at the moment and thinking sour grapes. The fact that we managed one vote only would suggest to me that we're on our own here...
 
You out corrupt officials when it serves a worthy purpose. What your press did served feck all purpose beyond lining their pockets and increasing their following. I can't believe you honestly think they did anything remotely noble and right.


All your press wanted to do was make headlines. Not change anything for the better. Not caring one bit what their selfish action could do to England's bid to host the world cup. I'm amazed you don't find their obvious selfishness cringe worthy.

This is all kinds of retarded. You out corruption because it is morally wrong. You out corruption because your country is going to LOSE a bid due to it. This isn't black and white, nothing in life is and if you think in this manner, naivety is a word you should look up.

Of course these papers wanted to make headlines, it is their JOB it is how they generate revenue so that there can continue to be things called news papers. Additionally, this just happens to be one instance where the story wasn't just sensationalistic trash, it served the GOOD of the global community.

In case you haven't noticed, Soccer or Football is a global game. It impacts the lives of billions of people. The fact that a country of 1.4 million can allegedly buy a world cup is disgusting. It isn't fair for everyone else who has standards and cannot or will not line the pockets of corrupt officials.
 
That is not even close to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is corruption deserves to be exposed but ONLY be people that want actual change and improvement to the system. Not people just doing it for the feck of it and to only benefit themselves. The actions of the British press didn't benefit anyone but themselves. It didn't benefit football, Fifa, the process or the England bid. It has nothing to do with wanting them playing to corrupt rules. Instead they preferred to play to their own rules rather than the rules of duty and common sense doing a disservice to all in the process. If you genuinely think that is worth praising then there is no point continuing this further. For I'll will never agree to that.

How did they benefit again? Oh right they didn't. They did something they knew COULD potentially anger the selection committee and they did it ANYWAYS. This is exactly the opposite of what you think happened. If anything, this is a story with a very high degree of journalistic integrity. Weighing the Pro's and the Con's.

Pro's being we out corruption and maybe affect change for the future.

Con's being maybe we piss people off and cost our country the worlds largest sporting event and the worlds attention on OUR paper in 2022.

So between potentially hurting themselves and trying to blast corruption, they chose the option that hurt themselves the most. Seems like they gained a lot to me.

Basically, the rule of thumb is, whatever the Chief says, probably the exact opposite is true.
 
In my opinion, had we gotten the World Cup, the issue of Fifa corruption would have slid right down the agenda. It would have been overlooked because they did us a favour.

I prefer what has happened - it opens more peoples' eyes to what is going on.

Well even if you believe it is a good thing, you have to admit that the timing was ridiculous - why couldnt they wait until after the vote?

I am quite happy for the media to expose whatever they want now that the process is over, but there is no justification for killing our bid.
 
Well even if you believe it is a good thing, you have to admit that the timing was ridiculous - why couldnt they wait until after the vote?

I am quite happy for the media to expose whatever they want now that the process is over, but there is no justification for killing our bid.

But they were exposing corruption and that's a bad thing. There shouldn't even be an issue here.

In any case, the only vote we got came from a fella who was implicated in the press investigation, so how can you explain that?
 
Football’s ruling body doesn’t share our love for democracy and openness, says Alastair Campbell.

By Alastair Campbell
03 Dec 2010


The scale of disappointment at England’s failure to land the 2018 World Cup is in part so vast because of our tendency to see the whole world through a narrow, rather nationalist prism. National pride is no bad thing – nor is national confidence – but when it comes to major global sporting events, it is wise to see a much bigger, more opaque and more complicated picture.

David Cameron is not the first prime minister to have felt his office slightly demeaned by the lengths elected leaders have to go to when seeking the approval of a collection of self-important individuals, of sometimes dubious morality, who are keenly aware of their power, and the power of sport to move people and nations alike.

Qatar may seem a particularly odd choice for the 2022 tournament, not least when Fifa’s technical analysis of its bid was negative, but you would have to be hard-hearted and nationalistic indeed not to feel something for the joy that erupted on to the streets of Doha at the news. Here was a decision by two dozen secretive bureaucrats moving a country into a different league.

And as the weekend newspapers fill up with tens of thousands of words trying to answer the question “What went wrong?”, here is something to cheer Mr Cameron: an analysis of post Olympics elections shows a political bounce for the party in power in the host country at the time. So a London Games, delivered in large part by a Labour prime minister’s ability to charm and cajole, may play a role in helping a Conservative successor’s political fortunes. It is probably small comfort now, but another indication of the near mystical power of sport; another reason, too, for him to reflect on the Coalition’s ill-advised decision to axe funding for school sport, which, were Fifa a rational organisation, would have counted against England, and may have done so anyway. It’s the legacy, stupid.

But there I go again, looking through the narrow prism. Spain/Portugal and Holland/Belgium are feeling similarly cheated at rejection in favour of a very wartish warts-and-all Russia, and smelling the same suspicions of corruption and sharp practice. Also, spare a thought for poor old Australia. A nation virtually defined by sport received one paltry vote in its bid for 2022, then saw its cricketers skittled out by England.

To understand our failure, we should understand that if Fifa were a country, it would not look like Britain. It does not share our enthusiasm for democracy, openness and transparency. The narrow nationalist prism leads us to tut-tut and feel superior. Yet when it comes to China, soon to be a superpower, or Russia, whose television stations are yet to report any of the more embarrassing WikiLeaks details, or non-democratic, non-transparent countries in the Middle East, we are not averse to dealing with those countries as they are, not as we might wish them to be. The WikiLeaks files have provided ample fresh evidence of leaders saying one thing in public, and something very different in private. The Prime Minister, the future King, and the country’s most famous global sporting icon have all experienced a similar phenomenon – of being told something to their face which a subsequent vote exposes as bare-faced lies. Not terribly British, maybe, but it happens, and the world moves on, to Russia, to Qatar, to countries where power is hard and ruthlessly expressed.

We like the idea of freedom of the press, even if at times we don’t like what it delivers. We would rather live in a country where the media is frank, fearless and free to delve into the secretive workings of powerful organisations.

Even if no Fifa voter can be found to say that British reporting of its business was a factor, we can be sure it occupied a space in the back of their minds. Of the 11 countries involved in the bidding process on Thursday, nine came in the top 42 in the Press Freedom Index. Qatar is placed at 121, Russia at 140. If Fifa were a country, it would be closer to Qatar and Russia than Holland (3) or England (19).

Nor does Fifa share England’s view of itself. We love the Premier League. Many footballing bodies hate it. We go on and on and on about World Cup victory in 1966, decades after most of the rest of the world has forgotten about it. Countries as varied as Brazil, Argentina, Holland, Spain and Germany have produced greater teams and greater football since. As the Prime Minister pointed out, he was not even alive to see Bobby Moore raised aloft in victory, yet still we cannot let go of “66” as the greatest moment in sporting history.

Three Lions (“Football’s coming home”) was one of the best nationalist prism football songs ever written, but the constant reminders that “we gave the world the game” simply grate with Fifa, who are more interested in giving the game to the world, taking it to parts of the planet where it has yet to reach the saturation point it has reached here.

We either have to play the game, or change the rules of the game; and if we can’t change the rules, we may as well accept that England will only host the

World Cup in the event of an emergency in Brazil, Russia, Qatar, or those awarded hosting rights thereafter. Meanwhile, roll on 2012. Britain united, the world invited.

If Fifa were a country, it would be Russia - Telegraph
 
But they were exposing corruption and that's a bad thing. There shouldn't even be an issue here.

In any case, the only vote we got came from a fella who was implicated in the press investigation, so how can you explain that?

Oh yes - our valiant press working for all that is good in the world, give me a break mate! They are a bunch of sensationalist cnuts always chasing the biggest story and shitting on whoever or whatever they need to in the process.

I dont see what 1 man's vote has to do with anything - the voters shunned our bid for a very obvious reason, the British media.
 
If they shunned the england bid due to the media reporting that fifa were corrupt then that says everything you need to know about fifa. If they didnt then that reporting didnt matter anyway. That you now believe the time is right for the press to investigate fifa ends up looking hypocritical unfortunately.

Dont get me wrong, i hate the nature of our written press at the moment but on this matter they are not the villains.
 
I dont see where I have been hypocritical - I just put the word cup bid ahead of what i feel is mostly misplaced support for the actions of the press
 
An article from the Daily Fail: World Cup 2018: FIFA five who betrayed England bid are named | Mail Online

The most interesting bits are that England, Australia, Spain/Portugal, and America will be discussing paths forward in hopes of changing the process or a "possible breakaway coalition to challenge FIFA."

The other is the rumors that FIFA want to change the World Cup to January since Qatar is hot as camel balls in the summer also in hopes of reducing the power of club football.

Most of it's probably completely untrue, but I find it amusing that so many people are pissed that the voters lied to the Future King of England!!! Completely ridiculous...
 
Who's to say it was malicious.
FIFA, The FIFA committee members, the England bid team, black fans headed to Racist Russia. All who were mostly royally screwed over by their actions.

Maybe it was a precursor to what will come later. Maybe the press knew that the corruption they found out about was still going on. Maybe, just maybe it was a warning to FIFA to stop the corruption before the vote.

Maybe FIFA didn't listen and maybe now we just sit patiently and wait for the repercussions.
Now you are just finding excuses to make what they did look better than it actually was. The press never did that for any good reason other than self interest. To make it worse after doing that shit the proceeded to encourage the idea that England was assured of getting picked.
 
This is all kinds of retarded. You out corruption because it is morally wrong. You out corruption because your country is going to LOSE a bid due to it. This isn't black and white, nothing in life is and if you think in this manner, naivety is a word you should look up..
:lol:You call me retarded and post this garbage below:

Of course these papers wanted to make headlines, it is their JOB it is how they generate revenue so that there can continue to be things called news papers. Additionally, this just happens to be one instance where the story wasn't just sensationalistic trash, it served the GOOD of the global community
So there desire to make revenue means its okay
for them to stir up trouble out of their own selfish interest? Nothing the fecking British press did served the global good. Anyone with half a brain can see that. All it did was stir up speculation and loads of bitterness. More sensational shit for the press to feed off of.

In case you haven't noticed, Soccer or Football is a global game. It impacts the lives of billions of people. The fact that a country of 1.4 million can allegedly buy a world cup is disgusting. It isn't fair for everyone else who has standards and cannot or will not line the pockets of corrupt officials.
:lol:

You dare preach to me. A person who wants folks not to bullshit us that they are doing what they've done for the global good of the game when all they did it for is lining there own pockets.:lol:

Man your all kinds of stupid today.


Seriously y'all can go own champions ship the actions of your fecking stupid and selfish British press. You can believe in all the sensationalist crap and the lies they are feeding you about FIFA. Just dont expect the rest of us to join you. you think ti was nobel for some of us to end up in racist Russia because of them? I say feck them and you.

I'm done here.
 
My dislike in general for the british media usually outweighs that of my dislike of fifa but i think you're being blinded here.
You wish. I'm not the one defend the selfish and unhelpful actions of the British press because I hate FIFA.

The media's motive is completly inconsequential when considering the information they put forward, it still showed elements of law breaking and corruption within fifa - why should this just be ignored because the papers want to sell their editions? Their info wasnt fictional.
It's not about it being ignored. It's about why it was brought up. It wasn't brought up to improve a single thing. The sooner you realise that the better off you will be. all the did was entrap two fellows and speculate about the rest.


In fact the advantages to the bbc of keepin quiet outweighed the disadvantages (ie host broadcaster of the games, no misguided bbc backlash for harming the bid) but they stood their ground on the basis that they are in a country who has complete freedom of the press and they wouldnt be silenced through fear of ruffling some crooked bastards feathers.
:lol:
What those idiots did was ruffled the feathers of everybody. Not just the called corrupt. The vast majority of the shit BBC had was mere speculation. Not hard boiled evidence. I mean come on. The notion that your press ''stood up to the corrupt'' is beyond laughable in the extreme!

It's a bizzare argument to make when you say corruption should only be outed when it's because of good intention. Actually no it's not bizzare, it's actually retarded.
Only a fool can believe exposing corruption is of any value when it has not been done to help anything improve.
 
Oh yes - our valiant press working for all that is good in the world, give me a break mate! They are a bunch of sensationalist cnuts always chasing the biggest story and shitting on whoever or whatever they need to in the process.

I dont see what 1 man's vote has to do with anything - the voters shunned our bid for a very obvious reason, the British media.
No matter how many times we point it out mate. Some people just won't get it.
 
Wished the US or Australia would have one a bid. Russia should be good, but Qatar wtf
 
Only a fool can believe exposing corruption is of any value when it has not been done to help anything improve.

So only point out corruption if you can fix it all? The media has demonstrated what a bunch of criminals make up the Executive Committee and FIFA at large. Just because no one can wave a magic wand and exterminate corruption at once doesn't mean that the news stories won't provide a basis for further investigation and ultimately lead to greater change.

I guess we'll just take your path of kissing FIFA's ass as much as necessary despite the corruption inherent in the system. There are some things far more important than winning the bid for the World Cup. One of them is ensuring that the process for selecting future World Cup's is open and fair. But hey, if you think it's more important to bribe those necessary and ensure that the members of the committee are able to continue their shady dealings to get the World Cup, that's your own choice. I would much rather the problem be pointed out openly and fixed. There has to be some starting point for an overhaul. Hopefully, this is it.

Blatter's whole orchestrated spiel about it being important to accept winning and losing was obviously pointing out the inevitable anger at the decision to pick the two countries that are the least prepared or suitable. Blatter will preach the anti-racist and equality ideals of FIFA one minute while giving the two least tolerant nations the sport's biggest event the next.
 
Only a fool can believe exposing corruption is of any value when it has not been done to help anything improve.

Corruption should always be exposed irrespective of there being an immediate benefit in terms of a reduction in said corruption. The blatant horse trading this time around is ebb more obvious than usual due to them deciding 2 at one time. Like the Olympics this sort of power shouldn't be concentrated in such a small undemocratic group. Maybe the price the English bid paid will be worth it in the long run if FIFA can be reformed. I don't see that the press have done anything wrong despite it being inconvenient. In fact they have simply done their job since in a democracy the press should be free.
 
I had a feeling that Russia would win this bid. The amount of corruption in that country is unreal, and the sporting bodies really know how to butter up the relevant authorities.

For example, Russia will soon be hosting the winter Olympics in Sochi. Now, Sochi is probably the worst place in Russia to host the winter Olympics, since it is basically a seaside resort town. Putin does love to vacation there, though. No surprise, by the way (and this is going back to the World Cup bid) that the stadium in Sochi will be one of the first to be constructed -- even though the local team, Zhemchuzhina, hasn't played in the Russian Premier League for at least a decade now (it's been barely surviving somewhere in the lower leagues, in fact). Back again to the Olympics now: the rumors in Russia were that the committee were treated like princes upon arriving to Russia. They couldn't actually see any infrastructure, since Sochi had none for the winter Olympics (neither does Qatar -- go figure!), but the welcoming ceremony was reportedly something special indeed.

And now, for the World Cup. A dozen stadia expanded, and several new ones built. Each construction project will be overseen by an oligarch friendly to Putin, and humongous sums of federal money will be pocketed by various astute private individuals with "connections". This is actually why Russia is always looking for big government projects: big project leads to big government spending, which leads to officials in the government bureaucracy pocketing funds. At least with this one, the Russian fans will go home happy, I suppose...
 
Corruption should always be exposed irrespective of there being an immediate benefit in terms of a reduction in said corruption. The blatant horse trading this time around is ebb more obvious than usual due to them deciding 2 at one time. Like the Olympics this sort of power shouldn't be concentrated in such a small undemocratic group. Maybe the price the English bid paid will be worth it in the long run if FIFA can be reformed. I don't see that the press have done anything wrong despite it being inconvenient. In fact they have simply done their job since in a democracy the press should be free.

Yes. Blaming the press for exposing corruption is ridiculous. To not report corruption in the hope that it will help your bid is wrong.
 
Russia were going to win the world cup bid regardless of any corruption in Fifa. They want the world cup to go to new shores. Anybody who thought we had a chance were bein unrealistic, especially after Triesman. I'm gutted of course that we didn't get it, but it was the right decision. I have no problem with a World Cup there, they are a Footballing nation that have many great historical teams that whilst they may be past their prime are begining to grow again and have a lot of money behind them. I just wish that the way Fifa voting system works that they let be known that you have less or no chance, insead of them constantly keeping bidders in to get their kikbacks and pledges.

What rankles with me is Qatar. They ignored Australia, a country that has worked for years with Fifa, developed it's own leagues and Footballing infrastructure and greatly needed the push of hosting the tournament to take it to the next step. Instead the tournament was given to a first time bidder who are after a tourist attraction. The Qatar games I have no doubt will be every bit as good as South Africas or Japan/Koreas. To ignore a long standing member and give it to a nation whose ruling powers only started taking an interest in football a few years ago because money is no option to them over a country who has worked well within Fifas members guidelines and supported the organisation. A bid that when it smelt the way the wind was turning wanted to drop out of the race, but were convinced by Blatter to stay in the tournament bidding, to then only receive 1 vote is unbelievable arrogance on the EXCO.
 
Do we know who gave Australia their vote?
 
The only leg Chief has to stand on is if one of the following two scenarios happen:

1) the press deliberately wait until the worst possible time to show a story they have been sitting on for a while to get the maximum ratings

or

2) they make up things, exaggerate or make a big deal of old news just for ratings when the rubbish they are reporting will be a negative for an 'innocent' party.

Now I don't know exactly what happened in the english press, but from what I understand the first report was a fair one, but the one that was shown 2 days before the vote fell entirely within both of those two scenarios. That one would be inexcusable in my eyes, and I would go out of my way to not watch or read that news station/paper again, encourage others to do the same and just generally badmouth them completely.
 
If if if only England won the 2010 WC and now threaten to reform FIFA and somehow they manage to get Spain on board. Imagine the European and World Champion against FIFA :drool:
 
Yes. Blaming the press for exposing corruption is ridiculous. To not report corruption in the hope that it will help your bid is wrong.

Corruption is wrong and should be exposed. But sometimes you need to look at the timing. I agree with you in principal but it's obvious that the reports didn't help the English bid.

So there you go. The English media won the battle but England's bid lost the war. So take the moral high and celebrate your victory..

To clarify my position. I dislike FIFA and the way they run the election but the way to go is to present a better alternative, find a majority and vote for new rules. No it's time for shovel snow...3 dm and feckin freezing cold :mad:
 
Oh yes - our valiant press working for all that is good in the world, give me a break mate! They are a bunch of sensationalist cnuts always chasing the biggest story and shitting on whoever or whatever they need to in the process.

I dont see what 1 man's vote has to do with anything - the voters shunned our bid for a very obvious reason, the British media.

And they opted for the two most muzzled...

Sensationalist or not, they clearly highlighted corruption in our game's governing body. Are you happy to overlook this?
 
An article from the Daily Fail: World Cup 2018: FIFA five who betrayed England bid are named | Mail Online

The most interesting bits are that England, Australia, Spain/Portugal, and America will be discussing paths forward in hopes of changing the process or a "possible breakaway coalition to challenge FIFA."

The other is the rumors that FIFA want to change the World Cup to January since Qatar is hot as camel balls in the summer also in hopes of reducing the power of club football.

Most of it's probably completely untrue, but I find it amusing that so many people are pissed that the voters lied to the Future King of England!!! Completely ridiculous...

:lol::lol::lol:

Like anyone is going to care what Australia does with regards to FIFA. We consistently punch above out weight in the sporting arena...but that is laughable.
 
read a few time now about FIFA may want to change the 2022 WC to January.
Would this happen ? and if it did what could anybody do about it ?
Clubs could not refuse to send players , is there not a rule barring this.
 
How many times can this be said, the times didn't report corruption, they set a fecking trap to get 2 probable england voters, why???? Doesn't matter what someone says they might be willing to do in a room with a couple of businessmen, talking and doing are 2 very different things, we have no idea how it would have played out if they were actual businessmen with real bribes.

IF the times had uncovered evidence of actual vote selling then it would have been completely justified reporting no matter what.

The BBC thing was just a joke.

By the way, well done to the guy from the BBC documentary who voted for england. As for Blatter, the sooner that cnut is gone the better, the speech he gave before announcing the winner clearly showed his hatred of all things English, and what he apparently said to the commitee before the vote about the 'evils of the media' is just contemptuous. But the point is he doesn't give a shit, he's got what he wanted, Russia will host a very good world cup, the English press with huff and puff and nothing will change.
 
Doesn't really matter if Blatter goes as there will be somebody of the same ilk to take his place. FIFA is riddled with his type, the same antics will continue without him.
 
Well I think the next election is June/July 2011 where Blatter will seek to keep his death grip, nobody has thrown their hat in yet but when you look at who might it doesn't fill one with much confidence. It looks like Danny Jordaan might give it a shot (not really in a position to comment on him too much all I know is that his brother benefited handsomely from the World Cup in South Africa).
 
Didn't it get said that the guy running against Blatter was the head of the Qatar bid? The speculation was he would step down and leave Blatter to retain his position since they got the World Cup? That could all be bollocks but I'm sure I read it.
 
With all the talk about breaking away from FIFA, I mean, the English are taking this even worse than I thought they would.
 
As far as I can remember the head of the Asian football federation claimed last year that an Asian candidate would run against Blatter. They would have also been backed by Warner because they have money and we all know that's all uncle Jack cares about and then they just backed out (presumably for the reason you cited). So as far as I can recollect you would be spot on Zarlak.
 
FIFA, The FIFA committee members, the England bid team, black fans headed to Racist Russia. All who were mostly royally screwed over by their actions.

FIFA might have thought it was malicious, yes.....then again it's quite understandable for some criminals to think people are being malicious, particularly when someone chooses to call them corrupt and "out" one or two of their fellow gang members. That's sometimes how people think when they believe they should be above the law. (I'm not following the reasoning of the rest of your examples I'm afraid).

Now you are just finding excuses to make what they did look better than it actually was. The press never did that for any good reason other than self interest. To make it worse after doing that shit the proceeded to encourage the idea that England was assured of getting picked.
We'll just have to sit tight and wait and see on that one won't we.
 
And they opted for the two most muzzled...

Sensationalist or not, they clearly highlighted corruption in our game's governing body. Are you happy to overlook this?

Yes I would happily overlook it for a few months - what good did it do to expose everything before the vote? None, it only caused to hurt our bid and embarassed our entire nation - I think the BBC have a very strange idea of what is 'in the public interest', or more likely they dont really give a feck.

Like I said, now that the vote is over, I am quite happy for the press to go digging into FIFA's affairs - although I would like to see some real evidence rather than tabloid style exposes and rehashed info from 10 years ago.
 
Well I think the next election is June/July 2011 where Blatter will seek to keep his death grip, nobody has thrown their hat in yet but when you look at who might it doesn't fill one with much confidence. It looks like Danny Jordaan might give it a shot (not really in a position to comment on him too much all I know is that his brother benefited handsomely from the World Cup in South Africa).

Bin Hammam or the ExCo member from Korea will throw their hat in most likely/.