Well in the race for the title at the moment the point tallies are pretty high, in the past you could probably get away with dropping more points, at the moment though we can't and so we can't take the same risks. Add to that injuries meaning that we've been chasing for most the season anyway and then hard draws in the FA cup and messing up in europe have really reduced the amount of games we could take the risk in. I'm sure had the season gone different we would have seen him subbed on a bit more and if he'd have done well and we were in a decent position I'm sure he would have gotten a start.
Paul Pogba
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Well in the race for the title at the moment the point tallies are pretty high, in the past you could probably get away with dropping more points, at the moment though we can't and so we can't take the same risks. Add to that injuries meaning that we've been chasing for most the season anyway and then hard draws in the FA cup and messing up in europe have really reduced the amount of games we could take the risk in. I'm sure had the season gone different we would have seen him subbed on a bit more and if he'd have done well and we were in a decent position I'm sure he would have gotten a start.
How the feck could anyone interpret those quotes as confirmation that Pogba will start. Ridiculous headline.
Sounds as though Fergie would like to give him a substitute appearance. If he's as negative as it sounds about Pogba being here next summer I can't see the point. feck him.
Jeez, I didn't even read it, that's not even close to saying he'll start.
Dont understand why everyone is reading that quote as if its almost certain Pogba will leave.. Its hardly anything one way or the other in what Fergie says. Just that he hasnt decided yet.
At Pogba's age:
David Beckham had played one sub appearance in the League Cup against Brighton and a friendly against Kaiser Chiefs.
Nicky Butt had played 40 minutes worth of football in two PL sub appearances when we were in winning positions.
Gary Neville had made three substitute appearances - one in a friendly, one in the UEFA Cup and one 6 minute cameo in the Champions League.
Only Giggs had become a regular at the age Pogba is now.
The problem is agents. Unfortunately, these scum are exist in our game
Something is definitely wrong with this situation. Only a couple of months back the papers were saying that Pogba had been offered a deal but that he won't even consider it. We all thought it was a nothing story and that was that. Then a couple of weeks later Fergie says we'd offered him a deal but his agent hadn't even come back to us. Now there's 'been no progress'. It seems whoever wrote that original story had some good info as it is playing out just as they said it will.
I'd love to know what we've offered him.
Exactly, we can use the 1 year extension as well which will give us some time to give him more games and persuade him to stay. Calm down, he's not gone yet!
It's more a case of, this hasn't been resolved yet? What is there to even think about? The fact the lad hasn't signed already speaks volumes.
We don't even know what he's been offered though. If we aren't offering him a lot, but want him tied down for 3-4 years, then it's not going to happen. Especially if Juve, for example, offered him £20k+ a week plus were sounding like they intend to bring him into the team sooner. You can't blame the lad really. He doesn't need to be at United to make a name for himself.
Obviously, I'd advise him to stay as I support United, and I would sign if I was given the choice he has, but I can sympathise with him in the position that he may be in if I think of it from an unbiased point of view.
Then it's all about the money and it's a case of if he follows the United development path he'll earn a lot more over the coming years than he would at Juve. Just because somewhere else is offerning more money does'nt make it the better deal.
I do agree, but there's no guarantee in football though. Pogba might never make it at United or could pick up a bad injury at any point. If there's a good offer on the table from another European giant which offers him game time, then you couldn't begrudge him leaving.
I honestly believe that Morrison left because he wanted to play football. I'm not sure exactly what we are saying to these young players but they're hardly optimistic or they would be signing, for all the reasons you have stated. We've never had problems like this before that I can remember where we couldn't keep hold of a player that we wanted to keep and isn't called Cristiano Ronaldo, so what has changed? Are young players suddenly demanding more football or are we unable to give assurances that they will be involved? Am I allowed to suggest that we may have vastly reduced what we are willing to offer these young players now? Fergie has gone from saying that Pogba wants to stay to he's now unsure. Something doesn't add up.
I actually now believe Morrison was told to leave. It is frigging strange. We do though have an even bigger record of youngsters not making it here than we do those that do.
Morrison left because we didn't want him anymore, there was no reason for him sticking around for another 6 months. If we really want Pogba I'm confident he will stay here.
More to the point we got fed up with him. He was starting to become a bit of a primadonna. Obviously Pogba is another kettle of fish. Highly talented but not such a lose cannon. Really hope he signs a new contract soon.
We have higher standards than most, though.
weird comment, surely that applies to every team, ever.
What makes you so sure about Morrison? Everything Morrison and Fergie has said fits in with what I have just said about him leaving for more football.
Eh? SAF just said he needed to get away from Manchester, come on you don't need to be a rocket scientist to read between the lines. Ravel isn't going to join West Ham just to play football regularly and if we wanted him he would have gone on loan and signed a new contract.
What else is he going to say, Morrison wouldn't wait to pay football here? That seemed a throwaway comment really. What about when Fergie was talking about his demands being unrealistic? He obviously wanted to play football now and wasn't patient enough to wait. Don't forget how just a few weeks before he left, he was being brought on in the Carling Cup at half time, which was a big show of faith from Fergie. Unless something very bad happened between this time, I don't see why Fergie was singing his praises on minute and then suddenly decides that he needed to be out of Manchester.
And let's not forget Rio's tweet about youngsters 'throwing away opportunities that are within touching distance'. I think he was annoyed at Morrison's impatience in not waiting a bit longer for his chance.
No. Many are paid based on potential. They come out of college or high school (fewer) and get big contracts, specifically, large signing bonuses.
Really no different that Pogpa showing his potential in the reserves, as he has done.
And other clubs will. You think with the money splashing around at clubs like City, that they won't give some kid with amazing potential money?
He's not an ordinary 18 year old. He's an 18 year old with exceptional talent. In any vocation, that kid is going to make more money than most 18 year old. 1-2K a week is shit for someone of his talent.
my thoughts exactlyHe played in that game two months prior to leaving, in the meantime there were continued reports of contract stalling, a falling out with Joyce and repeated failure to turn up for training.
I haven't a firm idea as to why he left, but given how outrageously talented he is, and comparing that to the ease with which we let him go, it hints towards something more than pure desire for match time.
I'd go with badly advised. Based on the interviews he's given, to make a complete 180 and have doubts about being in the first team or whatever other 'concerns' he has makes it seem as if someone's been putting some ideas in his head. I think at that age, you're pretty impressionable still and it's easy to be badly advised if you're not careful. The good thing is that we've already taken a stance with Ravel so if Paul knows what's good for him, he'll stay.
The other issue is how much of this falls on Pogba and how much of this falls on his agent. We're being fed leftovers and scraps from the table so it's a bit hard to judge. Nonetheless, for me personally, I havent seen anything to suggest that Pogba wants to leave. I think he wants to make a name for himself here but maybe he thinks that he won't for whatever strange reason. It seems like Rio is trying to give the boy some perspective and that's really all these youngsters need in this day and age.
The way I see it, it's very easy to be badly advised. People know how to get in these youngsters' heads, say things they want to hear, and tell them what they think they should do in a certain situation without necessarily looking at the consequences. I'm 20 years old now and although it's only a two year difference between from being 18, I can say with full confidence that I've grown up a lot since then and listened to people I really shouldn't have.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is as some sort of generalization. Every culture is different but for the most part, I think British and American culture are pretty similar. Similar enough to say that most 18 year olds are pretty naive even though in the US, you're deemed as a legal adult at that age.
That's why I think Rio will play a part in Pogba staying. He can give Paul a sense of perspective that his fellow peers might not be able to offer and it's something that I think will help Paul see the consequences a bit clearer. Not sure how you lot were at 18, but I made some pretty dumb decisions then that were more so, on the whim more than anything. This isn't an excuse for Pogba's behavior. Like I said earlier, it's a bit of speculation but from what I've seen, I think he's being badly advised.
I think it's pretty clear that he needed to get out of manchester. The question is can he stay away from it enough to actually gain some perspective and clarity of thought in his life. That's what he's seriously lacking right now and by going back to that same atmosphere every week as he said in his tweet, he's simply not going to grow that much as a person.
It had more to do with wanting to play regularly. That probably was a factor but a factor that was intertwined with some of the other influences in Ravel's life that he's allowed to pervade his thought process and emotions. When you surround yourself with people that will say what you want to hear more often than just being real and honest with you, I think it's fair to say you can get situations like this.
That's one thing that youth really need. Someone that can offer that sense of perspective. Otherwise, they'll easily be steered down the wrong path. It doesn't take much for that to happen. For me, if it wasn't for the right influences and people pushing me in the right direction via opportunities and keeping me from certain influences, I wouldn't be where I am today.
Considering how poorly we've been set in midfield at times this season due to injuries, its not like Pogba has really been getting much gametime. While thats fine if both the manager and player agree to take time and that he's not ready yet, if the player disagrees then we're going to have problems like this.
But we're not going to bend to those demands which means said player will go elsewhere. Imo, for that player, it's their loss. You have a unique opportunity to be and really ply your trade. The class of '99 have showed what happens when you combine your talent with exceptional work ethic and dedication. That's why Giggsy and Scholes are still around. If players these days are too impatient to see the payoff, then let them leave. It's unfortunate when you lose an exceptional talent but then again it means even more when you stick to your principles that led you to having success in the first place.
That's why it's important that we repeatedly show these kids that if you want something you have to continually work at it. The payoff may seem far away but if you apply yourself and do what's necessary to improve yourself, then you have a very good chance of making it. Just because you're talented does not mean that you'll make it. As good as you are, if you want to earn it, you got to work for it. It's that simple.
So let's say Pogba leaves because he felt unsure of whether or not he would be able to break through to the first team and make a name for himself due to competition for places. He has examples around him of players that have had to wait but because they've persevered and kept working, they're now enjoying the payoff. If Pogba leaves, whose fault is that? Ours because we didn't do enough to ensure that he would get a regular first team role? Or is it his fault for not staying the course and leaving because he wanted assurances that are not necessarily guaranteed?
Based on what I've said, I think it's pretty clear where I stand.
Thats how players are these days, especially foreign ones we pinched by giving him a better offer.
All I know is its a bad idea to lose a talented central midfielder when our midfield is a bit average and most people agree that we need to add to it rather than lose our talent in that area. If we lose him for peanuts it'd take a lot of money to bring in another talent at a similar stage. And honestly I dont think he's any worse of an option than Anderson.
All I know is its a bad idea to lose a talented central midfielder when our midfield is a bit average and most people agree that we need to add to it rather than lose our talent in that area. If we lose him for peanuts it'd take a lot of money to bring in another talent at a similar stage. And honestly I dont think he's any worse of an option than Anderson.
It does not work that way though, hence you had Pique and Fabregas leaving Barca when they were destined for greatness. Football is a cruel game, one injury and you could be out forever, not everyone is willing to wait and risk their future if they can get a big contract right there and then
No I think they will. I just think that what other sports are paying their young players has no bearing on what football pays its youngsters. Having said that though even if other clubs are willing to go higher it doesn't mean we have to match them. At the end of the day there's always an alternative player and only a certain amount of clubs that can pay x amount and offer what we offer. I wouldn't want united to give in to demands like this regularly. It sets a bad precedent. Doing it for a world star like Rooney is one thing but for an unproven kid then I wouldn't.
Eh? If Pogba is no worse than ando then fergie really messed up not playing him against Blackburn or anyone during our little midfield/defence crisis. He's had one good half hour and two cup games of avergeness. He may have the talent but he's not there yet, or anywhere near given the infrequentness of his appearances.
I mean as in I wonder if we have a reputation in the proffesional game that we don't see. I remeber Pastore turning us down togo play for Palermo as he he didn't want to come and sit on our bench, I've heard similar from a few other young players as well. I know it's impossible to keep allthe players happy all the time, but when you've ben fast tracked to the first team bench then it should tell you something. Not even our most revered of lost youth players like Rossi and Pique could claim that.
FFS, no it's not! These players are getting paid sacks of cash to play a sport; overflowing sacks and sacks of cash, volumes of cash so vast that they'd make Scrooge McDuck think twice about going for a swim in em - if that's cruelty then they should try living in the real world for a change. My wage is 1000th that of Wayne Rooney, and I don't get sick pay; if I get injured I'll be bankrupt and evicted - barring some catastrophic tragedy players like Pogba and Morison will be living the good life no matter what. Football's not a cruel game.
You tell 'em Cider!
You can only go so far with these 'kids'. You can't keep carrying it on. Like Ravel M, if Pogba thinks he's the bees knees, agent or not, then feck off.
I was quite optimistic at the start of the season with Cleverley, Pogba and Ravel M. One out of three will have to do and I pray that one isn't a potential sick note.
I was quite optimistic at the start of the season with Cleverley, Pogba and Ravel M. One out of three will have to do and I pray that one isn't a potential sick note.
That's it. Having players like that leave isn't any great loss to United; you need to have the right attitude to play at our club, and if a player hasn't got the right attitude (Ravel) then he'd never amount to anything here anyway. We're not Manchester City ffs, we've no time for mercenaries, there's no room for players of that attitude at our club.
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