Yeah. I just remembered the chance he set up for RVP now as well, which was a decent chance even if the pass wasn't perfect.
Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances
- Thread starter Drifter
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
Yeah. I just remembered the chance he set up for RVP now as well, which was a decent chance even if the pass wasn't perfect.
Played well. Some folks are much too harsh on him, because they don't appriciate him as a player. Remove players like him, and we take 2/3 steps backwards. He didn't give the ball away that much but as a team we were poor because we allowed ourselves to face situations where we have a corner and they break on us and they have a 2 or 3 prong attack vs rafael...
That kinda crap is why giving the ball away gets so much focus. Not only encouraging galatasary but creating a chain of sloppyness which I don't think is acceptable and is incredibly annoying. But then footballers are thick 9/10. Nani did fine. The penalty aside, his creative play through the middle was very good.
That kinda crap is why giving the ball away gets so much focus. Not only encouraging galatasary but creating a chain of sloppyness which I don't think is acceptable and is incredibly annoying. But then footballers are thick 9/10. Nani did fine. The penalty aside, his creative play through the middle was very good.
I agree that he's capable of better. I just don't think it's fair to judge him only against his own potential simply because when he's on fire he's absolutely unplayable. Using other players in his position who play for other top clubs as a benchmark is a more reasonable comparison in my opinion, and by those standards he had a very productive game overall.
I didn't feel like he lost possession as often as you make out either, but either way, I can't see how creating several goal-scoring opportunities in a match can be classed as a poor display for a winger, even with the penalty miss taken into consideration. I honestly believe that were the performances of Valencia and Nani traded, people would be gushing over Valencia and absolutely slating Nani.
I'm not oblivious to his faults, I just feel that a lot of the criticism he gets is unjustified. His statistics over the last few seasons support this - any other winger with his numbers wouldn't be constantly slated by his own supporters, so why Nani? Just because his potential is so frightening, doesn't mean that what he does produce even when somewhat off form isn't better than most.
I think the best example of that is if you look at the attacking output of Valencia and Nani over least season, I posted it a while back on this thread but the statistics showed than Nani's attacking output was marginally better than Valencia's, yet by all accounts Valencia had a top season last year and Nani was average. That's not saying that statistics tell the whole stroy but it's interesting that their respective seasons are held in such contrast given their actual product wasn't much different.
Stats stats stats. It's not american football lads where you can isolate a player and couch him in stats. Henry's stats were stand alone for Arsenal but when he left everyone elses stats got better. fecking Football Manager generation.
Yeah but when talking about a player and how people can view him differently it's a good thing to be able to bring in to bring context and objectivity. Case in point people saying that player x was constantly giving the ball away and then actual stats show he had one of the highest completion rate out there. Stats aren't everything but they're not meaningless either.
Look Nani is no angel and he can do some really stupid shit but I don't get why he get's so much criticism. Is it because people expect him with his ability to do better? As Brwned pointed out after the Hull game at home Nani had an excellent 18 months and it's just since the turn of the year his form has dipped. Part of which is down to injury, part of which could also be down to the contract issue and part of which is just Nani being Nani.
He's a wonderfully gifted Footballer but his style of play does leave him open to criticism, even Ronaldo got a rollocking for not tracking back against Villa. I don't think SAF has helped Nani at times, he's a confidence player and needs games. He had a poor First Half yesterday and an excellent Second Half. Some might agree or disagree, the fact is everyone knows how wonderful he can be and how terrible he can also be. I just feel people are very quick to pick on the negatives with Nani. It all comes down to the reputation you've built though and even when he was shit hot the media didn't really give Nani any credit. Scholes was really poor last night for instance but no one really cares because everyone universally loves him to bits. If Rafael has a bad game tomorrow then everyone will start questioning his maturity, he'll be that rash, young Brazilian instead of the mature full-back he has been in the last two games.
He's a wonderfully gifted Footballer but his style of play does leave him open to criticism, even Ronaldo got a rollocking for not tracking back against Villa. I don't think SAF has helped Nani at times, he's a confidence player and needs games. He had a poor First Half yesterday and an excellent Second Half. Some might agree or disagree, the fact is everyone knows how wonderful he can be and how terrible he can also be. I just feel people are very quick to pick on the negatives with Nani. It all comes down to the reputation you've built though and even when he was shit hot the media didn't really give Nani any credit. Scholes was really poor last night for instance but no one really cares because everyone universally loves him to bits. If Rafael has a bad game tomorrow then everyone will start questioning his maturity, he'll be that rash, young Brazilian instead of the mature full-back he has been in the last two games.
I don't think he does, nobody has said he's poor, just that as effective as he is he can be frustrating; then we get an exercise in fanboy fundamentalism.
All creative players will be frustrating, I don't know why people seem to forget that when it's about a United player. Silva is useless at times when he plays at City, Ronaldo the same for Madrid, Robben for Bayern etc. etc. Nani is no different but many fans expect their player to be consistently brilliant, while completely ignoring the fact that the creative players our opponents have are the exact same.
Nani might frustrate slightly more than his counterparts, but he'll also do more brilliant stuff than them. Some of the dribbles he pulls off from time to time are genuinely world class. His all-round play seems to progressing nicely as well - a few years ago I couldn't see him making some of through balls he pulled off last night.
If Nani wasn't playing at United I suspect that a lot of people on here, who are moaning about him now, would desperately want him at the club.
Nani might frustrate slightly more than his counterparts, but he'll also do more brilliant stuff than them. Some of the dribbles he pulls off from time to time are genuinely world class. His all-round play seems to progressing nicely as well - a few years ago I couldn't see him making some of through balls he pulled off last night.
If Nani wasn't playing at United I suspect that a lot of people on here, who are moaning about him now, would desperately want him at the club.
I think Nani gets unfair criticism, Scholes and Valencia were poor last night and I haven't heard a peep about them. Players have bad games, I just don't get the extreme views. Yeah Nani did stupid shit last night but that Second Half on the whole was terrific. To be fair some people clearly don't agree with that school of thought. It's less apparent here than the Matchday thread where Nani's penalty claim was met with 'Get up FFS,' in sharp contrast to Valencia's penalty claim.
This is a new myth I can see developing in front of my eyes. We are Manchester United fans, Nani is not the first creative player we have ever seen or have in the team. It's about making the right decisions. Nani often doesn't. Which has nothing to do with flair.
Even Ronaldo used to get stick from us during his latter years - notably 07/08 and 08/09 - for being theatrical and a bit lazy when it came to tracking back. This was despite his ridiculous goals output, so if the then 'best player in the world' is open to criticism, then a helluva lot of players are. The one season where most people didn't give him too much stick was when he stepped up his whole game in 06/07 where he was a truly complete player.
Coming back to Nani, he was very good in parts and quite sloppy in others yesterday. He will get stick because he has shown that he has been more consistent for us, and until he gets back to that level he will continue to get it. He had a superb 2010 where he was the best winger in the league and seemed to have improved his decision making quite a bit. Since then (roughly) he hasn't hit the same incredible level for a consistent period of time. He's always productive - and that's a huge plus - but he has already shown that he can be one of the best players in the league and he will always be held accountable if he doesn't perform to that standard.
Coming back to Nani, he was very good in parts and quite sloppy in others yesterday. He will get stick because he has shown that he has been more consistent for us, and until he gets back to that level he will continue to get it. He had a superb 2010 where he was the best winger in the league and seemed to have improved his decision making quite a bit. Since then (roughly) he hasn't hit the same incredible level for a consistent period of time. He's always productive - and that's a huge plus - but he has already shown that he can be one of the best players in the league and he will always be held accountable if he doesn't perform to that standard.
How true is that? I remember thinking how poor certain players were when they started, and couldnt understand why Fergie kept picking them; Pallister, Evra, Fletcher for example
At the moment I dont enjoy watching Welbeck, but I really hope he gets added to the above list of players who kick on and become great players for us
Nani - I nearly always enjoy watching him. He always looks like he's capable of something special.
All creative players have to be given scope to make mistakes. I'm sure they are told to ignore the groans for a misplaces pass or runs that gets tackled, and concentrate on the cheers when the exciting stuff does come off
In fact I'm hoping Cleverly starts to try more Scholes like passes. His overall movement, control and short passing is sublime, once he adds more killer passes he'll truly have arrived as a United player
Anderson needs to try less killer passes
Your entirely right but to be honest I think we go out wide far too often, Valencia you already know what he's going to do. Nani tries to mix it up but often the team just gets the ball wide and sees what happens. I think more variety and interchange will help the entire side, it's not like Nani can't do short, sharp passing and make good decisions but often he has to hold on the ball for so long that he has to think and then when he has to think he fecks up.
Nani's pen claim v Valencia's peno claim. Stop with the poinbtless one or the other comparisons. Nani is a bit more prone to the theatrical than Valencia, again not the fan's fault. Both were pens IMO
You said it yourself, Scholes and Valencia had last night were poor, and nobody minds that but Nani did "stupid shit". Well stop with the stupid shit Nani. He was good in spells last night, but as a fan that 'stupid shit' infuriates me and as player it would have driven me fecking mad. It's very very hard to play with a player who does stupid shit.
And that is the nub of it for me, some people like a thinking footballer.
Of course it's the fans fault moses, judge what you see not what you think you see. If you're not sure wait for a fecking replay.
This is undeniable. I made a rare venture into the matchday last night, and the second Nani was taken dowbn for that penalty thre was a barrage of abuse.
It was genuinely pathetic, might as well have been in a City forum for the level of hate and cluelessness.
It's not the fans fault that Nani has a rep for diving and the reactions in the matchday thread are immediate and telling.
What you think you see is pretty much what you see until you see it again surely. Do you walk around wondering if you saw something or thought you saw something?
I love a thinking Footballer, I don't Nani think is one at all. He's all instinct, I'd be disappointed to see him to become methodical like Valencia and that's not a slight on Valencia. His instinct is his biggest strength and weakness, it's a game which needs confidence and conviction behind it. When he's put on the spot he reacts far better than we has time, he's a funny one. He should be maturing now but he seems to be trying too hard at the moment.
No I go by my instinct but restrain from putting it into the public domain until certain. Also Nani has cut down on the theatrics a fair bit in recent years.
He has super talent, but annoys the hell out of me. I don't think he's easy to play alongside either. Which is the bigger picture.
Didn't he say he wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start on Sunday?
You are not the idiots in the matchday thread. They are a sub-species.
I suppose, he can be great to link-up with though. Kagawa and Evra would testify that last night. I think it's more to do with how we play though, we need to go through the middle more. It's almost like we don't realise we have Kagawa and RVP in central areas, the ball goes out wide far too often. He was Player's Player of the Year 2 season back so I don't think he's hard to play with but I would prefer to play along Valencia than him.
True.
Thought Nani was on par last night. Gave the ball away consitently, dived at every oportunity, shot when he should have passed...ect.
Penalty was as I was expecting, didn't even expect him to score it.
My opinion and that of most around me last night.
Penalty was as I was expecting, didn't even expect him to score it.
My opinion and that of most around me last night.
And what was your opinion whilst he was creating 3-4 excellent goalscoring opportunities? I wouldn't ever listen to the opinions of those around me at a football match, those opinions are beyond embarrassing most of the time.
You are pretty much wrong on every point.
So about this "giving the ball away consistently" thing....
hmmm.....
80% pass completion (good for a winger that), especially considering the 84 touches which was second only to Michael Carrick. Add to that the excellent chances he created for other and what do you get....
Oh yeah, a shit game, a poor game, crap Nani, whinge whinge fecking whinge. What you should have been doing is turning around to the braindead Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime behind you and educated them a little. Some matchgoers really are the World's biggest retards when it comes to appraising player performance.
You even got the abbreviation wrong. Nice way to sum up that line.
Nobody is 'wrong on every point' in this thread, just massively overstating things. Nani is not everybody's cup of tea, and that's kinda why I like football. It is a broad church.
Very enlightening. Some dudes had even better games than I initially thought.So about this "giving the ball away consistently" thing....
[/IMG]
hmmm.....
So about this "giving the ball away consistently" thing....
hmmm.....
80% pass completion (good for a winger that), 84 touches, second only to Michael Carrick. Add to that the excellent chances he created for other and what do you get....
Oh yeah, a shit game, a poor game, crap Nani, whinge whinge fecking whinge. What you should have been doing is turning around to the braindead Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime behind you and educated them a little. Some matchgoers really are the World's biggest retards when it comes to appraising player performance.
What site is this? Been looking for more extensive stats for CL games since the stats zone thing doesn't have it.
Indeed.
A frustrating player because he clearly has so much ability, but his decision making lest how down and his consistency varies wildly.
He's certainly improved the "end prduct" side of his game over recent seasons but he's getting to the age where he needs to cut out the daft errors if he ever wants to be considered as a really top class wide player.
He's like Ben Arfa at Newcastle - fantastic on his day, distincly average on others. Difference is Ben Arfa would cost half as much in wages. Nani needs to imrpove again if he wants the huge contract he seems to think he deserves.
I can still see him moving on for big money if any offers come in. Would be a loss, but for me, if the money is sepnt well, not insurmountable.
Like I've already mentioned a few times, after he took a bad shot early on I knew people would have it in for him again. Clouding people's judgments in an otherwise good game for him where he didn't give the ball away much and created plenty of clear cut goalscoring opportunity's.
Cheers
Exactly. It takes so little for certain supporters to turn on Nani, and once they do, well then you have the sheep.
Appraise his game properly and you'll see that he did well. Not vintage Nani but a decent game non-the-less, a game whereas had it not been for poor finishing from others, he would have had a couple of assists to his name.
The language in this thread is more like gossiping teenagers than football fans. Turn on him indeed.
Look at this blog post from the brilliant Beautifully Red:
http://beautifullyred.co.uk/
Nani's involved in virtually every good piece of football we produced. If that's not enough to say he had a very good match, I don't really know. He's involved in 7 or 8 fantastic pieces of play, being the main instigator - and it really underlines what I said, that he "understands" Kagawa more so than any other player we have.
This might be something for noods to have a look at as well. There's many very fine pieces of quick, incisive attacking football in that post.
EDIT: Nani's bits are included under bonus GIFs, obviously. Also, the chances he lays on for RVP and Chicharito twice, aren't included.
http://beautifullyred.co.uk/
Nani's involved in virtually every good piece of football we produced. If that's not enough to say he had a very good match, I don't really know. He's involved in 7 or 8 fantastic pieces of play, being the main instigator - and it really underlines what I said, that he "understands" Kagawa more so than any other player we have.
This might be something for noods to have a look at as well. There's many very fine pieces of quick, incisive attacking football in that post.
EDIT: Nani's bits are included under bonus GIFs, obviously. Also, the chances he lays on for RVP and Chicharito twice, aren't included.
- Status