In future I'm not gonna type out 3 paragraphs but just wait for Steve to sum it up with far more wit.
Bastard
Bastard
England player and another Premier League star set to come out as gay
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Again, if it's not important to you, why are you even here? The rest of do think it's important, so it's normal we'd read this thread.
Yeah, that is comparing it to bestiality, you're just going the long way about being bigoted.
That's why I used interracial couples as an example, to me it's ludicrous that anyone would have to make a public coming out, because it's useless information, it won't change the way I see the player.
I feel that it's only useful for the homophobes, they are the only one interested by that information.
He's a fecking clever prick. Makes me feel ashamed about some of the drivel I post.
I've said enough to you. Think what you want, but sadly you're ability to reason seems limited, at least on this occasion.
Clearly not, otherwise the press wouldn't flock to it. For a start, there are millions of gay people still in the closet, they'll be interested and there's millions others who went through it before, who will sympathetically listen to them.
Again, perhaps I should let you post for me. Agreed.
Jesus wept, you're really not doing a very good job of disproving the accusation of being a homophobe.
If it saves me having to read "I don't care" one more time I'm all for that.
Absolutely! It seems these days "coming out" seems to be a badge of honour. Nobody should care. What goes on in your life is your business.
With good reason. If you'd been hiding the fact that you're a Muslim for decades, telling people and having them accept you for what you are would be a great relief in your life.
Be brilliant if it was two proper top names.
Having read quite a bit of 'Gay Literature', a common theme soon emerged: that many of the writers suffered years of self-loathing, and often felt they deserved to be unloved, alone and even, to die simply because society at large made them feel as if they weren't 'normal'. How f*cking awful and tragic is that? How this shames conventional thinking...is it any wonder that these people might want to defy that shame in any way they see fit? It's not for the rest of us to tell them how they can attain our shabby acceptance.
It's useless, it's like what the Kardashians did last week, the press will tell you but you don't care. I'm curious so I clicked on the thread but when I will have the information, I will be left like an idiot with an information I don't really care about. I will probably post "good for him" because I suppose that he will be relieved. Your posts are more interesting than the potential coming out itself.
Personally I wish there were many MANY more gay men. This would give women fewer choices and increase my tiny odds of getting laid.
I think there are certainly still closet opposers to some of things mentioned here - homosexuals, certain races, interracial relationships etc - but as a society, Britain is an accommodating society. Even if people have certain views, the official line, at least, is one of acceptance.
I don't think public stands lends to the thinking that something is just a normal thing that people shouldn't raise eyebrows about. That is what society is aiming for of course. The idea is people just being who they are, without it having to be a topic of discussion. Therefore, in my opinion, the better way to go about it is to not actively make it a topic of discussion. 'Coming out' won't stop a homophobe from being homophobic. It just makes the topic about someone's sexuality. I can't see how that is helpful in making that very thing a non-issue.
That's my take, and it is ridiculous to say, well unless you agree with it, why come in to this thread. I came and gave my take. I'm apparently some sort of bigot for it. Personally, I think Britain is very diverse, and I'd rather not keep talking about differences. You don't move forward that way. A few months ago, I made a thread defending the use of the word nigga, for example. The word has moved on, and I didn't think the stuff like Piers saying how much it needs to be outlawed was helpful. All that does is makes the discussion about racism and slavery again, like an insistence that society shouldn't move on.
Britain isn't amongst the homophobic societies in the world. We should build on that by not constantly having it brought up as if it's even a thing to discuss. Let's move forward by not referring to someone's sexuality. Let's perhaps talk about his footballing ability instead. If a footballer wants to be gay, let him be gay without him saying 'I'm gay, let's have a conversation about it', which is what will happen if we have announcements. I'd much prefer to just see a footballer and his boyfriend out publicly living their lives. That portrays the normality of it.
I don't think public stands lends to the thinking that something is just a normal thing that people shouldn't raise eyebrows about. That is what society is aiming for of course. The idea is people just being who they are, without it having to be a topic of discussion. Therefore, in my opinion, the better way to go about it is to not actively make it a topic of discussion. 'Coming out' won't stop a homophobe from being homophobic. It just makes the topic about someone's sexuality. I can't see how that is helpful in making that very thing a non-issue.
That's my take, and it is ridiculous to say, well unless you agree with it, why come in to this thread. I came and gave my take. I'm apparently some sort of bigot for it. Personally, I think Britain is very diverse, and I'd rather not keep talking about differences. You don't move forward that way. A few months ago, I made a thread defending the use of the word nigga, for example. The word has moved on, and I didn't think the stuff like Piers saying how much it needs to be outlawed was helpful. All that does is makes the discussion about racism and slavery again, like an insistence that society shouldn't move on.
Britain isn't amongst the homophobic societies in the world. We should build on that by not constantly having it brought up as if it's even a thing to discuss. Let's move forward by not referring to someone's sexuality. Let's perhaps talk about his footballing ability instead. If a footballer wants to be gay, let him be gay without him saying 'I'm gay, let's have a conversation about it', which is what will happen if we have announcements. I'd much prefer to just see a footballer and his boyfriend out publicly living their lives. That portrays the normality of it.
I like this thought. Also less lesbians.
Yea. I just think coming out as gay makes being gay 'a thing'. I thought that's what we're trying to avoid.
Coming out isn't about stopping homophobes or talking about differences people have. It's a self affirming event in the life of a homosexual person who has until now been forced to pretend otherwise.
Premier League footballers, especially as these would be the first, have to do it publicly so that they can own rather than be abused by the oncoming media storm.
That's the point though. It's no business of others if you're gay or straight. It's between you, your partner and close family. If you want to come and say you're a Muslim there's no need to do so in public.
This is the UK, not Saudi Arabia or Iran.
But has he though? Been forced to pretend, I mean.
Isn't the best way to not give a shit to simply just get on with not giving a shit? Then it's for others to like it or lump it.
It's still the first Premier League homosexual. Weather they want it or not, the media will flock to it. By doing it this way, they can own the fallout rather than be driven to suicide by it. I'm sure the people would question would love nothing more than be allowed a private life where these things are accepted without question, but they really don't have that luxury.
Yes, yes he has. Read Steve's posts.
It's hard not to give a shit when you're as famous as even minor PL footballers, whose private lives are under constant scrutiny. Let's not pretend they have the same privacy we do.
Agreed again, I made the same point earlier. If others 'assume' he is straight, so what? Don't people assume everyone is straight usually?
It is okay to be gay or Muslim in the UK, so people can just get alum with being themselves. There is no battle to be won in that respect. Everyone may not like or agree, but sod them.
Spot on
The topic is not gays in Britain's society though, the topic is gays in football.
So it's all nice and well to say, in an environment where homosexuality is accepted, why make a fuzz about being gay?
The hint would be in the word 'coming out'. Those footballers would 'come out' as gay as they're still in the closet of having to hide it to the public, and probably teammates, people in their lives etc. That's the reality in football.
That's why it's a big deal.
Indeed. But if you feel that the world you live in demands that you keep your sexuality secret, then coming out probably is a badge of honour. I hope we can get to the point where, like in your scenario, no one's bothered either way. But the fact there are gay footballers who don't feel comfortable having the world know who they are is indicative of an issue that can only be solved by open and frank discussion of the underlying issue.
I mean, Jesus, a PL footballer can't even feck a prostitute without making the front page and having hundreds of paparazi abuse them. Can you imagine if one went to a town square with his boyfriend and kissed him there?
That's true about media scrutiny. I still don't think that answers why, if he has had enough of hiding it, he can't just simply stop hiding it. Why a public statement? Does that not lend to an 'abnormality' of it, more than him simply just dropping the facade and being who he is?
That's what he would be doing "Listen guys, I'm a homosexual, and I would appreciate it if you accepted this and didn't give me any abuse or sent hundreds of cameramen to my house to shout slurs at me in the hope of getting a reaction. If you have any questions, I'll answer them now."
People think the former is immoral though, especially when you have a pregnant wife at home. They wouldn't treat homosexuality as he same 'crime'. Frankly, they wouldn't dare. Britain is PC crazy as it is, a newspaper would never attack someone for being gay.
100% agree with you. In thread discussion after Thomas Hitzelsperger came out recently it was quite apparent that those saying 'who cares?' and 'noone's interested' were actually people who did care a great deal and were trying to downplay the importance of it. Yes, we might well have gay marriage in the UK, but to act as if a prominent footballer could just come out without facing taunts from crowds is just plain stupid. In fact I'm pretty sure one poster in that thread went as far as to suggest that a gay player shouldn't have his male partner with him at times, for example if his team had won a trophy (the players usually have their partner and kids on the pitch in the parade) because it be broadcast to countries where being gay isn't tolerated.
Prostitution is legal in England? And you think that paying for sex, using a woman like an object is comparable to being gay?
Dauly Mirror said:
You'd think these relatives and friends would've already known, wouldn't you?
It'd be bloody typical if this disclosure was being forced on the players because of the fear of imminent newspaper revelations.
If Adam Lallana came out, I'd take to the streets protesting (and vomiting) at the idea that he's a "Premier League star."
Richard Littlejohn constantly uses the daily mail to abuse homosexual and transgendered individuals. And it's not just what they'd write, it's how their private life would be abused as a result.
the numbers increase these days without having the data to prove it.
Sometimes family are the last people you'd tell. Even within a friendship circle some people will be far more tolerant. I hope that's not what's going on, can think of few things more horrible than a paper effectively coercing someone into revealing something that personal when they're not ready.
It's not, yet. And no, I don't. But when that's the treatment they get for sexual adventures, can you imagine if the English media found out a Premier League footballer was being publicly gay? It'd be the end of his private life. Some would write how amazing he is, Richard Littlejohn would write that he's corrupting out youth and the paparazzi would be calling him a fag in the hope that he gets pissed off so they get interesting photos of him. It's a grim situation for someone to put themselves in.
Hmm.
By doing that though, we would be forced to have a discussion about his sexuality. I don't think we would if it were more organic. People would still think things, as they would regardless. If you are homophobic, a public declaration won't change that. The point is, you will keep it to yourself. At least you should. Frankly, if you don't, there will be consequences. As a black man, I know how much people are scared of being labelled a bigot. I have to constantly tell people that x or y is okay, nobody thinks you hate black people! I doubt any media will openly question a players sexuality. Some still won't like it, but that can't be changed.
I mean, a newspaper would never dream of 'sending cameramen to a players house to shout slurs' because he was gay! Could you imagine that?! They would be sued to heavens for a start, and it is illegal too.