James Wilson | On Loan to Brighton and Hove Albion

Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Lol, most of those clips are of him scoring in front of a few blokes with their dog. You can't seriously be comparing that to what Rashford is doing?
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That's youth football for you. Where are the clips of Rashford at a similar stage? I'm not knocking Rashford - I'm delighted with him, as I said - but Wilson has been good for us at every level, winning the Jimmy Murphy YPotY award along the way and also scoring a brace on his senior debut. He hasn't done bad. To cast him out already would be a huge mistake.
 
Players develop at different rates, both physically and talent wise.

Harry Kane was 21 when he made his breakthrough, before that he had a good amount of average spells at championship Clubs.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
Players develop at different rates, both physically and talent wise.

Harry Kane was 21 when he made his breakthrough, before that he had a good amount of average spells at championship Clubs.
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Agreed what Wilson has is an unbelievable eye for goal and you just can't teach that. I think all of his problems are physical in that he seems to lack stamina to compete for a whole game and he physically struggles against big centre backs. I still firmly believe that of his physique catches up to his natural talent we could have a gem on our hands.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Didnt he score 2 in that game vs Hull? Did he then go on to start the next 10-15 games for us? Because thats what happened to Rashford. He haa started about a dozen games in a row simply cos we had nothing else. The Rooney injury has a lot more to do with Rashford success than him "taking his chances".
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Rashford got chances but also showed that he was good in it. Wilson started in our home win ba Liverpool last season but had little to no impact. Same with our loss against Middlesbrough. He looked lost. Whereas vs midtjylland Rashford looked up for it. Same vs Arsenal and city.
 
TrustInJanuzai said:
Agreed what Wilson has is an unbelievable eye for goal and you just can't teach that. I think all of his problems are physical in that he seems to lack stamina to compete for a whole game and he physically struggles against big centre backs. I still firmly believe that of his physique catches up to his natural talent we could have a gem on our hands.
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Clubs our size can't hope that the physique catches up, unless it's a Ronaldo we're talking about. His stamina looks poor, which at 20 is not a great sign. Strength can be built through sheer dedication of the Ronaldo kind, but combining that with increasing stamina at this age is more difficult. That's why Rashford gets the nod. The performances from Rashford have been great and he's shown that he already has the stamina, the stomach (for the fight) and also strength. Since he's just 18, he'll improve further. With Wilson, I fear that unless he seriously does something major in the summer, he's off. Clubs our size can't afford to wait.

Compare Martial and Rashford to Wilson and you start getting the picture. Even Shaw (younger even now) was told his problems and addressed them over the summer. Shall wait to see with Wilson, but I don't hold much hope after the last few games I've seen of his...

prath92 said:
Rashford got chances but also showed that he was good in it. Wilson started in our home win ba Liverpool last season but had little to no impact. Same with our loss against Middlesbrough. He looked lost. Whereas vs midtjylland Rashford looked up for it. Same vs Arsenal and city.
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True. Wilson has not shown (for the first team) the sheer volume of evidence that Rashford has, that he belongs at this level. 2 goals against a doomed Hull v/s winners and key goals against Arsenal, City and WHU in a knock-out game... Hmmm...
 
Lurpak99 said:
Wilson never showed anything when he played for us apart from his debut against a Hull. Rashford did what a young player is supposed to do when given the chance, and that's take it. Rashford is already streets ahead of Wilson, who I think at best will be a decent PL striker for a midtable club, and that might not even happen. After all guys like Sylvain Ebanks-Blake and Frazier Campbell did better in the Championship than Wilson have done, and neither had the level for the PL.
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He never showed anything. I'm not buying that, sorry.

Why is everybody so paranoid and overprotective of Marcus Rashford? You know we are allowed to have more than one talented prospect coming through, right? The fact is that if Wilson was at the club (also if Keane was fit) then Rashford wouldn't have even made his debut. The lad hadn't even played for the u21's before. As much as Rashers has grasped his chance it could really be considered a massive fluke and not much more.
 
Perrick Dubois said:
He never showed anything. I'm not buying that, sorry.

Why is everybody so paranoid and overprotective of Marcus Rashford? You know we are allowed to have more than one talented prospect coming through, right? The fact is that if Wilson was at the club (also if Keane was fit) then Rashford wouldn't have even made his debut. The lad hadn't even played for the u21's before. As much as Rashers has grasped his chance it could really be considered a massive fluke and not much more.
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Are you Wilson's father? You can't fluke what Rashford have already done, you don't get 6 goals and 1 assist in 11 games at the age of 18 by accident. Wilson is barely a regular at Brighton, so I find it hard to be too optimistic for him, to me he's just another overhyped United youth product, just like Will Keane now you mention him.
 
Lurpak99 said:
Are you Wilson's father? You can't fluke what Rashford have already done, you don't get 6 goals and 1 assist in 11 games at the age of 18 by accident. Wilson is barely a regular at Brighton, so I find it hard to be too optimistic for him, to me he's just another overhyped United youth product, just like Will Keane now you mention him.
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Worst post right here.
 
Lurpak99 said:
Are you Wilson's father? You can't fluke what Rashford have already done, you don't get 6 goals and 1 assist in 11 games at the age of 18 by accident. Wilson is barely a regular at Brighton, so I find it hard to be too optimistic for him, to me he's just another overhyped United youth product, just like Will Keane now you mention him.
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Am I Wilson's father?.. What does that even mean?..
 
Lurpak99 said:
Are you Wilson's father? You can't fluke what Rashford have already done, you don't get 6 goals and 1 assist in 11 games at the age of 18 by accident. Wilson is barely a regular at Brighton, so I find it hard to be too optimistic for him, to me he's just another overhyped United youth product, just like Will Keane now you mention him.
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Terrible terrible post.
 
Perrick Dubois said:
Am I Wilson's father?.. What does that even mean?..
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The way you try to talk Rashford down and say that he's just been lucky basically, and Wilson would've been the star of the show now, had he not been loaned out. There's nothing in Wilson's performances for United that tells me, that he would've scored two goals against Arsenal and been as good as Rashford generally have in the overall play. Rashford just seems like a much bigger talent, regardless of what Wilson did at U21 level.
 
If there's one thing that worries me about Wilson it's fitness/injuries - if I'm being totally honest. He missed the pre-season tour to USA with a finger injury and hasn't featured so much on loan to BHA due to injury/sickness, and I agree he needs to bulk-up a bit. If he can get and stay fit for an extended period I'm certain he will deliver. Why? Because he has done it all through his youth - scoring on debut for the seniors, England u19s and u21s, scoring all 4 in our 4-1 Senior Cup win over City, etc., etc.. On a slightly off-topic note, I'd prefer Warren Joyce to step up as caretaker if we need an interim manager, rather than Giggs, simply because he knows more what the youngsters can and can't do and would get the best out of them.
 
Lurpak99 said:
The way you try to talk Rashford down and say that he's just been lucky basically, and Wilson would've been the star of the show now, had he not been loaned out. There's nothing in Wilson's performances for United that tells me, that he would've scored two goals against Arsenal and been as good as Rashford generally have in the overall play. Rashford just seems like a much bigger talent, regardless of what Wilson did at U21 level.
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This has nothing to do with my possible relation to James Wilson. So I have no idea what you're going on about with that line of thinking.

Rashford was incredibly lucky to be selected. He had not even played in the u21's team prior to making his full debut in the first team. How can you argue against that not being a massive slice of luck?... Nothing about that says he progressed through the ranks and made the breakthrough due to individual skill and merit. He was the 6th choice player when he made his debut when the players in front of him in the pecking order were injured (and Wilson sent on a loan for next to no reason). Nowhere have I questioned his impact of talked down on what he has done as a player when selected, relax.

If Wilson was not on loan he would have been the next one to be selected (more than likely before Keane also). I can comprehensively deduce from your comments you've not watched much of James Wilson, as someone who has (for United and even while he was on loan) watched him quite a bit and made an effort to track his progress I can say they are on a similar level. Maybe what Rashford has done in our first team has set him on a much higher course than where Wilson is right now but simply flat out denying Wilson has talent simply because of what you think of his performances for United is daft. They are at different stages in their development, correct.

edit: Come to think of it I think Ash Fletcher was actually making appearances on our bench a lot earlier in the season. Not sure if he ever got any minutes though. Another who went out on loan to Barnsley that one could argue might have hypotherically been ahead of Rashford in the pecking order.
 
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Perrick Dubois said:
Rashford was incredibly lucky to be selected. He had not even played in the u21's team prior to making his full debut in the first team. How can you argue against that not being a massive slice of luck?... Nothing about that says he progressed through the ranks and made the breakthrough due to individual skill and merit. He was the 6th choice player when he made his debut when the players in front of him in the pecking order were injured (and Wilson sent on a loan for next to no reason). Nowhere have I questioned his impact of talked down on what he has done as a player when selected, relax.
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He only turned 18 back in October, so of course there would be some ahead of him on youth level, especially since both Wilson and Keane are very good at that level.

Perrick Dubois said:
If Wilson was not on loan he would have been the next one to be selected (more than likely before Keane also). I can comprehensively deduce from your comments you've not watched much of James Wilson, as someone who has (for United and even while he was on loan) watched him quite a bit and made an effort to track his progress I can say they are on a similar level. Maybe what Rashford has done in our first team has set him on a much higher course than where Wilson is right now but simply flat out denying Wilson has talent simply because of what you think of his performances for United is daft. They are at different stages in their development, correct.
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No, I haven't watch much of Wilson outside of the United 1st team, because that doesn't really matter that much, many players can look good at youth level, but very few of them can cut the mustard at senior level. Wilson would've been ahead of Rashford had he not been loaned out, but that probably turned out to be a good thing in hindsight, since I simply can't see Wilson or any other of our youth team strikers having the same impact as Rashford have had. He might be lucky to have got the chance, but it's no fluke that he's done so well.
 
Lurpak99 said:
He only turned 18 back in October, so of course there would be some ahead of him on youth level, especially since both Wilson and Keane are very good at that level.



No, I haven't watch much of Wilson outside of the United 1st team, because that doesn't really matter that much, many players can look good at youth level, but very few of them can cut the mustard at senior level. Wilson would've been ahead of Rashford had he not been loaned out, but that probably turned out to be a good thing in hindsight, since I simply can't see Wilson or any other of our youth team strikers having the same impact as Rashford have had. He might be lucky to have got the chance, but it's no fluke that he's done so well.
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So then it tells you all about the slice of luck he has been given, no? You've admitted that you don't really know much about Wilson so lets just leave it there.
 
If Brighton are promoted and is loaned to them again, then that would be very good for him.

His biggest problem is that he seems to get a lot of injuries and can't really get a run of games because of it. That is the first step for him. He still has time on his side, so let us not write him off.
 
Ace of Spades said:
If Brighton are promoted and is loaned to them again, then that would be very good for him.

His biggest problem is that he seems to get a lot of injuries and can't really get a run of games because of it. That is the first step for him. He still has time on his side, so let us not write him off.
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Agreed, I'd like to see that. He will definitely have some big decisions to make in the off-season. The club and himself.
 
Perrick Dubois said:
So then it tells you all about the slice of luck he has been given, no? You've admitted that you don't really know much about Wilson so lets just leave it there.
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What do I need to know? I've seen him play for our 1st team, and based on that, he has a long way.
 
Ace of Spades said:
True, hope he can get a good loan move, it would be best for him.
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If we do change managers, I could see him happy to be in the mix for that fourth striker position. But there is a real logjam going on and some players like Will Keane, Rashford and Fletcher could all stake a claim. There will be a bit to sort out for the incoming manager (if he does) out of that little group. It will be fascinating how he tackles it.
 
Ashley Fletcher wouldn't have been ahead of Rashford in the pecking order. They were both called up for first team training earlier in the season when we needed a bench option and Rashford was chosen ahead of him as he impressed Van Gaal more.
 
DenisIrwin said:
That's youth football for you. Where are the clips of Rashford at a similar stage? I'm not knocking Rashford - I'm delighted with him, as I said - but Wilson has been good for us at every level, winning the Jimmy Murphy YPotY award along the way and also scoring a brace on his senior debut. He hasn't done bad. To cast him out already would be a huge mistake.
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Youth / reserve football don't mean much to be honest. Often the players who do well in the reserves don't develop into top players and vice versa - you either "have it" or you don't.

Do you think Fat Ronaldo toiled for years in the reserves or on loan at lower league clubs? No, at 18 he was scoring a goal a game for PSV and at 20 he was doing the same for Barca.
 
Wilson is a terrific prospect. I understand the point of view, that some posters can only judge him on what he's done for our first team, and admittedly he has underwhelmed. But for a young player who has had limited time in the first team, I think you have to consider what he has done for Manchester United youth level, no? And I and many others can definitely vouch for the fact that Wilson has been one of the most impressive prospects in terms of performances for years.

Unfortunately 'niggling injuries' and 'not physically ready' are some of the first phrases that come to mind for some posters when it comes to James, and it's fair enough, they've blighted his short career so far. But I think he has the talent to make it here if he can develop to his potential. Best option is another loan next season, or a squad place - if we can guarantee he can get enough appearances.

Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Youth / reserve football don't mean much to be honest. Often the players who do well in the reserves don't develop into top players and vice versa - you either "have it" or you don't.

Do you think Fat Ronaldo toiled for years in the reserves or on loan at lower league clubs? No, at 18 he was scoring a goal a game for PSV and at 20 he was doing the same for Barca.
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Agree with the sentiment Sparky, but playing devil's advocate, for every Fat Ronaldo there's a Harry Kane or a Didier Drogba?
 
You wonder where he will be next season, what with the Rashford's emergence and the Rooney "conundrum" but probably more importantly, who will be in charge at OT next season, Wilson may well end up going out on loan again. If LvG is still here, and Rooney drops back into midfield, maybe Wilson will be given a chance the way a lot of other youngsters have this season. But that's more than a few ifs and buts.
 




Just a couple of videos to help you acquaint yourself with the subject matter, @Lurpak99 .

I'll just add that Wilson is the deadliest 1v1 striker I've seen at United since Ruud.
I was convinced that he would be leading England's line at this Euros. He has stalled a bit, but I seriously hope he reaches his potential.
 
ZAGREB RED said:
You wonder where he will be next season, what with the Rashford's emergence and the Rooney "conundrum" but probably more importantly, who will be in charge at OT next season, Wilson may well end up going out on loan again. If LvG is still here, and Rooney drops back into midfield, maybe Wilson will be given a chance the way a lot of other youngsters have this season. But that's more than a few ifs and buts.
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I'd rather we get rid of Rooney altogether and afford the opportunity to Wilson and Rashford.
 
Another point I've just considered. Wrong thread/off-topic perhaps but...

Why do other clubs, United included, not consider the Barca/Real tactic of selling their younger, possibly high-potential players, but having a buy-back clause? i.e. Carvajal, Morata, Deleuofeu, Denis Suarez etc.
 
Perrick Dubois said:
If we do change managers, I could see him happy to be in the mix for that fourth striker position. But there is a real logjam going on and some players like Will Keane, Rashford and Fletcher could all stake a claim. There will be a bit to sort out for the incoming manager (if he does) out of that little group. It will be fascinating how he tackles it.
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I don't think he should stay here to be a fourth choice striker. I think at this point he needs a run of games to improve as a player. The experience of consistently playing at a high level is best for him, no point in stagnating in the reserves as he has outgrown that level.
 
Nickosaur said:
Another point I've just considered. Wrong thread/off-topic perhaps but...

Why do other clubs, United included, not consider the Barca/Real tactic of selling their younger, possibly high-potential players, but having a buy-back clause? i.e. Carvajal, Morata, Deleuofeu, Denis Suarez etc.
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I guess it means they command a lower fee initially, how many players have actually been bought back? It could quite possibly be a false economy.
 
I wonder if we would have even seen Rashford play if we still had the likes of RVP and falcao at the club. Wilson did play for us during that period and outscored falcao. Rashford has done great for us but it's more to do with circumstances than anything else, there's no way he would have been starting every game if Rooney was fit and I doubt he would have been picked out of the bunch of strikers we have in reserves to replace Rooney as a sub. Wilson has not had the same amount of game time at utd as Rashford and again that's down to circumstances having fit senior strikers but he also had done well even with limited game time.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Youth / reserve football don't mean much to be honest. Often the players who do well in the reserves don't develop into top players and vice versa - you either "have it" or you don't.

Do you think Fat Ronaldo toiled for years in the reserves or on loan at lower league clubs? No, at 18 he was scoring a goal a game for PSV and at 20 he was doing the same for Barca.
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Would Rashford have the opportunity if he hadn't been the best youth striker available? I'm sorry but your posts aren't making a great deal of sense to me.
 
Not sure why it's so hard to grasp the concept of luck here.

Options when Wilson was here: RVP, Rooney, Falcao

Rashford: Rooney(injured), Martial(playing LW because of injuries and generally shittyness of players there)

He's been superb in taking the chance he got but the chance in itself was a huge slice of luck, it's not even debatable.

Also, admitting you don't watch much of youth football as it doesn't matter and then going on to say you are sure neither Wilson nor any other youth player could have done what Rashford is doing just doesn't make sense.
 
Varun said:
Not sure why it's so hard to grasp the concept of luck here.

Options when Wilson was here: RVP, Rooney, Falcao

Rashford: Rooney(injured), Martial(playing LW because of injuries and generally shittyness of players there)

He's been superb in taking the chance he got but the chance in itself was a huge slice of luck, it's not even debatable.

Also, admitting you don't watch much of youth football as it doesn't matter and then going on to say you are sure neither Wilson nor any other youth player could have done what Rashford is doing just doesn't make sense.
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Exactly

But then again this is the caf, we always get behind the flavour of month (he's done well) and disregard all other young players.
We have a strong batch of young players who can be around for a long time under the correct guidance Martial, Januzaj, Wilson, Pereira, Goss and Rashford (excluding defensive players), that's something to be positive about. I would have Depay in that list too but feel that he'll end up leaving due to being frustrated by LVG.
 
Why is there any rush to decide who is the better player, who will make it here etc?They've both got years to develop into a striker who could be first choice at United.

Apart from Rooney we haven't had a first choice striker younger than about 24 for decades. So for either of them to suddenly become a regular starter would be some achievement.
 
verminater said:




Just a couple of videos to help you acquaint yourself with the subject matter, @Lurpak99 .

I'll just add that Wilson is the deadliest 1v1 striker I've seen at United since Ruud.
I was convinced that he would be leading England's line at this Euros. He has stalled a bit, but I seriously hope he reaches his potential.
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Sorry, but that just doesn't impress me. He needs to show something at senior level before I truly start rating him.
 
Nickosaur said:
Agree with the sentiment Sparky, but playing devil's advocate, for every Fat Ronaldo there's a Harry Kane or a Didier Drogba?
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To be fair you can't really compare the likes of fat Ronaldo. He was a one off and levels above Kane or Drogba.
 
Ace of Spades said:
If Brighton are promoted and is loaned to them again, then that would be very good for him.

His biggest problem is that he seems to get a lot of injuries and can't really get a run of games because of it. That is the first step for him. He still has time on his side, so let us not write him off.
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What he said,
Wilson has an eye for goal that you can't teach, that type of ability is so very rare, if he can overcome injuries/physicality issues i'm sure he could score goals in any league in the world, he's still young, another season on loan getting 25+ games will be very good for him, (and us).
 
The talk last season was that Wilson was the most effective striker in our first team training, obviously training is one thing and the premier league is another but it bodes well for the future if he can get to the physical level required and stay clear of injuries.

He was quite unlucky to have been the youth option in a season with 3 big name players ahead of him, and Rooney not having his usual injury period so he never got the chance to establish himself in a run of games.

He's got a lot of potential, so I wouldn't write him off just yet
 
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